Birdfeeder/government intervention

[kathyp]

reinbeau, there is a difference between there being no jobs, and there being no jobs in the field you want, or at the wage you would like.

if you are a lawyer and the market wants nurses, you may not find a job.  if you are a gardener and there is a drought, you may not find a job.  you may need to move to a location that needs your skills.  you may need to change your skill set.

if you are a farmer and you need field hands, you will not find unemployed lawyers or gardeners who wish to pick your crops.

[reinbeau]

Of course not, Kathy, I'm well aware of supply and demand in the labor market.  And we're not talking about unemployed lawyers or nurses, we're talking about unemployed roofers, carpenters, dishwashers, etc. all of which are native born Americans who can't get jobs because the Brazilians (around here) and other immigrants have taken the jobs for much less money.   I don't need corporate spin thrown at me.  And keep in mind I am a registered Republican, and former business manager, I really do understand what and why this is happening.

I am totally unimpressed with the business 'reasons' being used to justify using illegal labor to make a cheaper buck.

[kathyp]

i don't believe i ever advocated for illegal labor.

[reinbeau]

Well, that's what the bottom line is here.  A false 'need' for cheap labor (because Americans don't want the jobs, supposedly) justifies the amnesty for millions of illegals flooding over the border.  Short term profits for some, long term headaches for the rest of us.

[kathyp]

 businesses like cheep labor.  cant' blame them for that. 

we already have a shortage of field workers here.  there is already concern for the strawberry crop.  it must be hand picked.  there are not enough workers.  where are all these unemployed white folks?  sitting in the AC controlled welfare or unemployment offices...where are the white kids, or black kids for that matter, when hotel rooms need cleaning, or trash needs picking up at a construction site.  minimum wage jobs.  they are to good for it.  they don't even want to flip burgers anymore.  seniors are working Micky D's. 

unskilled labor has always gone to the lowest bidder.  maybe your friends should ask why the unions have made us non-competitive and forced employers to pay non-competitive wages and benefits?

as for the amnesty question:  i understand the concern.  i understand the hype.  however, look at this practically.  we can not round up and deport 12 million + people.  we can't do it logistically.  we can do it from a business standpoint.  we do need to know who is here.  the best way to do that quickly, is to register those who are here.  after you have done that, you can deport those you catch and are not here with a visa.  the Z visa has some big problems.  however, knowing who is here, and doing it quickly is a good goal.

if you really want to solve the illegal problem, there are two things you need.  1 is deadly force used at the borders for those who try to come across illegaly,  and 2 get rid of the programs that make coming here attractive and make Americans lazy.

i do believe that border security should be number one, followed closely by getting a handle on who is living here.

[reinbeau]

Sorry, Kathy, but you sound like a spokesperson for the Republican machine, and that machine is going to do all it can to keep the cheap, ILLEGAL labor flowing.  That's the point.  It's illegal.  Never mind dragging unions and everything else into it.  The bottom line is illegal.  As for my 'friends' (not my friends, just people from all over this area, I'm not talking about a couple-two-three), they don't work in union jobs.  They don't work at all now that all those wonderful cheap ILLEGALS have their jobs, making all those poor, beleaguered business owners tons of illegal profits.  It's wrong.  The business owners should be tossed in jail, too.  Money made illegally is just that.  Illegal. 

Yes, of course we need border security now.  And I really don't care if it's via lethal force, if that's what it takes, then do it.  Oh, that's right, we did have some border guards do just that, shot some drug-dealing illegal in the arse as he crossed our border illegally, and what happened to them?  THEY got prosecuted and tossed into jail.    The border security guards are the most demoralized group of people employed by the government at this point.

We can't afford to build a wall to keep them out - and yet we can build walls along highways and interstates to block sound, there's miles more of that in this country than there are borders with Mexico.  These walls are more than adequate to keep people on their proper side.

Until this whole thing turns around to what's right is right none of this is ever going to get straightened out. 

As for not being able to round up 12 million of them and deport them - we can afford to give them services, however?  We can give them free medical care?  We can send their kids to college on my dime?  Bull.  Use my dimes to get rid of them.  Where there's a will there's a way, the problem is, there is no will in our government, Republican or Democrat, to get rid of them or truly stop the flow. 

And my wonderful Senator Kennedy is ranting and raving nightly about these 'poor people who just want a chance'.  Then let them come here properly.  The Dems want them because they think they'll vote for more Dems.  Oh, that's right, you don't really even need to prove you're a citizen to vote, that's a violation of some kind of civil rights!  Yaaaa.

When people literally fight for the right to do business illegally.....   Short term profits, long term disaster.

[kathyp]

well, we agree on one thing....kennedy is a raving lunatic.

this just isn't a soap box issue for me.  i think we should do what can be done practically, quickly, and with the least disruption to the economy.  we won't do that because the things we should do are not PC.  at this point we'd be better off to have them pass no bill, than to have them pass one that is the size of the last copy of the EU constitution.  as a whole, it's a bad bill.  i do think there are some good ideas, as mentioned before.

i am not an advocate for the republican party, the bill, or illegal immigrants.  i hope i am an advocate for a little common sense...which at this point i do not see on either side.

[Brian D. Bray]

When I was a kid full employment was 1005 employed.  Everybodies working.  Today the USA has an unemployment rate of 4-5% and there's talked about as if we're over employed--that we can't get enough work for everybody. 

What I find so funny (not really) is that a lot of the most successful startup businesses by white Americans are doing the jobs the the Hispanics no longer want to do.   Most of the Hispanics in my area have moved out of cleaning lawns and pools and running restuarants and hotels instead.  The local garner is now last years High School graduate.