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Author Topic: at what point?  (Read 4259 times)
kathyp
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« on: May 31, 2007, 09:06:38 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/story?id=3231184&page=1

i thought this guy would be some poor immigrant that didn't understand what was going on.  instead, it's an ambulance chaser!

at what point should the government curtail the rights of one to protect the many?  is enforced isolation to prevent the possible spread of disease, worth taking someones civil liberties?  should the government be able to confine someone if they have committed no crime? (except stupidity)
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
reinbeau
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2007, 09:10:50 PM »

What that article doesn't say is that his father-in-law works for the CDC and is a specialist in communicable diseases, specifically, TB! .

From http://www.thestar.com/News/article/219964

Quote
Associated Press
Quarantined TB patient is the son-in-law of a CDC microbiologist ATLANTA — The honeymooner quarantined with a dangerous strain of tuberculosis was identified Thursday as a 31-year-old personal injury lawyer whose new father-in-law is a microbiologist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) specializing in the spread of TB.
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pdmattox
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2007, 09:23:40 PM »

This guy from what i have heard, Knew he was not to travel and did so anyway. My opinon is he commited a crime even if there is not one on the books which i dont know if there is or not.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2007, 10:48:50 PM »

What that article doesn't say is that his father-in-law works for the CDC and is a specialist in communicable diseases, specifically, TB! .

Yeah when I read that I was wondering if there was some weird government experiment going on. OH darn. Conspiracy theorist showing through again.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2007, 10:58:59 PM »

maybe daddy wasn't to happy about the wedding?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
mick
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2007, 03:33:25 AM »

The fool should be locked up, 99% sure he got it from the fatherinlaw.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2007, 07:07:46 AM »

The fool should be locked up, 99% sure he got it from the fatherinlaw.
Nope, the father in law doesn't have TB.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2007, 10:14:58 AM »


Nope, the father in law doesn't have TB.

The father in law is a microbiologist specializing in the spread of TB.
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2007, 10:42:13 AM »

ok...but what about locking the guy up under guard?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2007, 10:51:18 AM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070601/ap_on_he_me/tuberculosis_infection_law_3

"I'm a very well-educated, successful, intelligent person," he told the newspaper. "This is insane to me that I have an armed guard outside my door when I've cooperated with everything other than the whole solitary-confinement-in-Italy thing."


Quote
The legal rights of a quarantined person, including the right to request a hearing, are not clear under current law, Gostin said. Some legal scholars said the absence of clear guidelines could lead to a legal tangle that might stall government quarantine actions during an outbreak of pandemic flu or other contagious diseases.

Speaker can challenge the constitutionality of the quarantine order, and might even be able to seek a federal payment for damages, Gostin said.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2007, 11:16:19 AM »

We don't imprison people with HIV, AIDS, other.

If someone has a disease you would think they (the sick person) would take the necessary steps to avoid infecting others. But alas, many people can't see passed their own wants/needs. We have laws against speeding, drunk driving, and many other things that might cause harm/death. A drunk could speed along for 200 miles not wearing his seatbelt and not hurt a soul, should he be punished? Should there be a law against driving drunk? If so, then should there be a law against being in public when you are sick? 
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reinbeau
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 11:54:25 AM »


Nope, the father in law doesn't have TB.

The father in law is a microbiologist specializing in the spread of TB.
Yea, I know, I posted about it in this thread, and you replied to my post!  Wink
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kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 12:07:12 PM »

HIV can't be spread by breathing.  if an HIV pos patient engages in unprotected sex without informing his partner(s), he/she can be arrested.

as this idiot proves, people will act in their own best interest.  sometimes they do it out of fear.  sometimes they are just SOB's.  

i don't see much difference between what this person did and the HIV patient who knowingly exposes others.

it's worth thinking about.  we have gamed bio-weapons for a long time.  in the past, we knew that it was a fairly small risk that a weapon would come in from outside the us.  bio-weapons are not that easy to make, maintain, and transport.  now we have people willing to blow themselves up.  they would not hesitate to become walking weapons.  how far are we willing to go?

if this little POS sues, and i wouldn't be surprised, the courts could weaken the NHS's ability to quarantine or isolate patients.  is that good, or bad?  how do we balance rights against the public good?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
mick
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 08:11:16 PM »

Old pop maynot have it, but he may have had it on him.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2007, 01:11:23 AM »

I haven't read all the articles on this guy but I do have to wonder if he was really a risk or is it just mostly fear that is the problem.

Here are some facts about TB;
http://www.dhpe.org/infect/tb.html
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2007, 01:48:52 AM »

this is not normal TB.  with normal TB, you start treatment and they are not a risk to the public within a short time.  TB is not that easy to catch anyway if you are health.

this guy has an extremely dangerous type that is drug resistant.  it has a 50% death rate.  while most people would not be at risk just by being close to him, anyone whos immune system is compromised could be.  also people that are exposed for an extended period of time in an enclosed space....like a plane.

normal TB patients are not put in isolation.  they are started on treatment and take some minimal precautions until they are sputum negative.  this is a whole different animal.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2007, 11:53:12 PM »

TB patient's relative to be investigated
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070603/ap_on_re_us/tuberculosis_infection;_ylt=AkymA9sE8DwXvDiV9Z47X7Ws0NUE
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2007, 02:41:46 PM »

Speaker's father, Ted Speaker, said a tape-recording of a pre-trip meeting with
CDC officials confirms the same conclusion. "They said on tape it is not contagious ... at least three times," said the elder Speaker, adding that he plans to release the tape.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070604/us_nm/tuberculosis_usa_dc;_ylt=Amb_M8mTkUbVy7i..pF0UdjMWM0F
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« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 03:21:56 PM »

I want to know how he got this TB... huh
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kathyp
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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2007, 03:42:34 PM »

Quote
They said on tape it is not contagious ... at least three times," said the elder Speaker, adding that he plans to release the tape.

the issue is not what he knew before he left.  it's what he did after he was in Europe and was contacted about the type of TB he had.  at that point, he ignored what he was instructed to do and intentionally took a route into the us that he hoped would keep him from being detected by us authorities.  he knew how serious the TB was.  He chose to put others at risk.  his actions after being contacted in Italy show that he knew exactly what was expected and had taken steps to circumvent the system.

also makes you wonder why we spend so much effort on the southern border and not so much on the northern border?

Quote
I want to know how he got this TB...


probably traveling.  it would have required being exposed when his system was weak, which happens when you travel, or close contact with someone who was infected.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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