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Author Topic: When privatization doesn't work  (Read 1387 times)
Understudy
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« on: May 28, 2007, 02:07:44 PM »

http://www.kpho.com/news/13397618/detail.html

Here is a situation where the municipal fire department is not the fire department of jurisdiction. The privately owned one shows up late and then bills the family $10,000 for the privilege of having them be late.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2007, 10:18:22 PM »

There is nothing like governmental turff wars to lighten your day.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
mick
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2007, 03:49:19 AM »

Downunder back in the 1800s the first fire brigades were private and run by insurance companies. If you werent insured you burnt to the ground or had to rely on the neighbours with buckets.

The result of this debacle was the formation of the MFB Metroploitan Fire Brigade. We have one of the best in the world and have a response time in cities and towns of about 5 minutes.

Up the Bush, we have the CFA Country Fire Authority which has a core of paid staff but is 90% volunteers and response times vary from a few minutes to 30 min, depending on how isolated you are.

All household and business insurance contains a fire levy, for houses it is less than a hundred dollars a year and that moneyt goes to the fire brigade.

If your house burns and you have no money, you dont get a bill. We still believe in a bit of social justice down here.

If you are insured, the insurance company pays for the firies efforts.

If you are an idiot and cause false alarms, you can expect a bill of about 500 bucks.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2007, 07:22:16 AM »

Seems to me if the home owner did not call these folks out and ask for their help then they can't be held accountable for the bill. They came out on their own accord. It would be like someone coming over and mowing your yard without you asking them to and then charging you for it.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Scadsobees
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2007, 08:31:40 AM »

Sounds more like somebody who cuts lawns coming over, sits in a chair on your driveway, and then charges you an exorbitant amount of money for the courtesy of watching your lawn grow.  rolleyes

I don't beleive that family will end up paying.  Based on what the article said, I don't think a court would think twice about that.  Unless it is in the same jurisdiction.....not to mention the heel of a manager of that fire dept.  Decent people don't kick others when they are down.

I can't imagine how the family feels.  Or the firemen who are probably forbidden do anything about it and just have to watch it burn.
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Rick
kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2007, 10:57:37 AM »

fire and police are kind of like the national guard.  if we are going to be forced to pay state taxes, that's where the money should go. 

i was surprised to find that the fire departments in NJ, at least where i went, were volunteer.  they were protecting some pretty large towns.  that's ok too.  our fire department is a volunteer dept and they want to keep it that way.  they do a great job.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllanJ
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2007, 07:44:16 PM »

I thought property tax went toward things like this..  Most counties around me are volunteer. Doesn't really matter to me in regards to emergency services. By the time any of them get to me, I'll either had been murdered, bled to death or cooking the package of hot dogs over what is left of my house.

Note to self.. in case of fire, grab some hot dogs and burgers from the freezer..
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2007, 12:29:52 AM »

By the time any of them get to me, I'll either had been murdered, bled to death or cooking the package of hot dogs over what is left of my house.

Yep. Too many people live under the illusion that others can protect them. I do not pretend, expect, or live as though someone will save me or my belongings. It isn't taxes, it's legal extortion.

From Wikipedia,
Extortion is a criminal offense, which occurs when a person either obtains money, property or services from another through coercion or intimidation or threatens one with physical or reputational harm unless they are paid money or property.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Kris^
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2007, 08:34:55 PM »

Downunder back in the 1800s the first fire brigades were private and run by insurance companies. If you werent insured you burnt to the ground or had to rely on the neighbours with buckets.

On many of the old colonial era brick homes in Philly, you'll see a big metal medallions attached front and center, up high.  That was the insurance sign, letting the insurance companies' fire brigades know who the insurer was.  If a brigade got there first and the medallion didn't belong to their company, they let it burn.  I suppose there's a reason Ben Franklin introduced the volunteer fire department!

-- Kris
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2007, 10:50:11 AM »

fire and police are kind of like the national guard.  if we are going to be forced to pay state taxes, that's where the money should go. 

i was surprised to find that the fire departments in NJ, at least where i went, were volunteer.  they were protecting some pretty large towns.  that's ok too.  our fire department is a volunteer dept and they want to keep it that way.  they do a great job.

Yes, lots of volunteers here in NJ. I pay about $850/yr as part of my local taxes going to the fire department. Many fire departments have paid full time employees in command, but volunteers fill out the staff. They also have lots of very expensive equipment that they wash and shine every weekend.
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