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Author Topic: Phooey!! Where did she come from?  (Read 1771 times)

Offline Mountaineerfan

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Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« on: May 20, 2007, 06:48:07 PM »
Ok, I have a hive that made it through the winter, but the queen did not.  I've kept them going by giving them frames of eggs from another hive, but had not seen any evidence of them raising their own queen.  So i ordered a queen from R. Weaver's that should be here next week.  Well, I went into the hive today to see how they were doing, and lo and behold I find not only an opened queen cell, but a little queen walking around being groomed!  I don't think she had mated yet, but I did see some eggs in some nearby cells.  I'm wondering if I should wait until the ordered queen comes and then kill the one that's in the hive now, or should I kill the queen when I introduce the new one.  I had pretty much given up on this hive raising it's own queen.  Shows what I know! 
Also, I found this queen cell on a frame that I did not introduce.  Will workers take eggs from one frame and move to another?  I'm confused!
Steve

Online kathyp

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2007, 06:52:35 PM »
can you make a new hive with your new queen?  seems a shame to kill either if you can use them to expand.
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Offline newbee101

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2007, 07:01:08 PM »
Quote
Will workers take eggs from one frame and move to another?  I'm confused!
Thats the second time today, someone asked that Question.
I found this, the only info I could find on the internet.
Quote
When a worker egg has been selected to become a queen, it is moved to a much larger queen cell and is fed large quantities of "royal jelly" which is similar to bee bread but contains more mandibular gland secretions and more honey (34% vs 12%). The larger cell for growth, larger food supply, additional carbohydrate, and more worker secretions results in the development of a queen.
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Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2007, 07:07:20 PM »
Where did you find that info?
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Offline Sean Kelly

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 07:26:15 PM »
From what I hear those B. Weaver queens are pretty sweet.  That's a pickle for sure man.  I know when I'm ready to re-queen, I'm gunna order one of their "disease resistant" queens.  Not sure about eggs being moved around.  I thought that the queen cell was just built around an existing cell.

Good luck and let us know which route you take, interested in how it turns out!

Sean Kelly
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2007, 07:43:32 PM »
>When a worker egg has been selected to become a queen, it is moved to a much larger queen cell and is fed large quantities of "royal jelly" which is similar to bee bread but contains more mandibular gland secretions and more honey (34% vs 12%). The larger cell for growth, larger food supply, additional carbohydrate, and more worker secretions results in the development of a queen.

I have seen no evidence of that.  They will enlarge an existing cell, but I have not seen evidence nor any studies that prove that they move eggs.

I'd make a small nuc with one of the queens and have a spare queen on hand.
Michael Bush
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Offline Cindi

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 12:19:04 AM »
Mountaineerfan.  The queen must be mated if you see eggs.  Unless you have laying workers.  In the case of the laying workers you will see several eggs in a cell, the laying workers' abdomens are so short that they can't reach the bottom of the cell and "stick" the egg in the centre bottom.  YOu should look to see how the eggs look.  If they are in the centre, standing straight up basically, a queen has laid this egg and it could be your queen that you saw walking around that laid the eggs.  After emergence from the cell it takes about 2 weeks for her to begin to lay, she may have emerged over two weeks ago, unless you know differently.  Good luck, let us know what you see and find. 

Don't kill this queen, make a split, like Kathy said, if you can.  Beautiful life, great day, great health.  Cindi
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Offline Mountaineerfan

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 10:12:50 PM »
ok, I guess we'll see how this goes...

My queen arrived today.  I went to the hive, and was unable to find the queen.  i also saw no further evidence of eggs other than what was there yesterday.  Now, I DID find a worker with her butt in a cell.  She no longer exists....
So I've put the new queen cage in, but did not remove the cork from the candy end.  I plan on returning Wed. or Thurs. to see if they like her or not.

Btw, here's a pic of a frame of honey from the super I pulled from my second hive today.  I have 8.5 more just like it!!

http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=honey1rl1.jpg
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 12:06:34 AM by Mountaineerfan »

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 11:02:32 PM »
You have laying workers.  If there was one, then there are more.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm
Michael Bush
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Offline Mountaineerfan

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2007, 12:08:14 AM »
That's what I'm afraid of, Michael.  I've read that article on your site before, and I think I'll try adding a frame of eggs from another hive if I don't think they'll accept this queen.  I don't have the resources for starting a nuc just yet...
Steve

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2007, 07:50:32 AM »
A frame of brood followed by introducing the queen about a week later might do well.  I'd use a push in cage (easily made from #8 hardware cloth) over emerging brood with no attendants.
Michael Bush
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Offline Scadsobees

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2007, 09:28:25 AM »
It is possible too that there were queen cells after you introduced brood, but they don't look too much like queen cells, not much different than a bit funny looking raised area.  I just started an observation hive, and there are queen cells that don't look much like queen cells (because they are emergency?).  I've heard those queens can be poor layers, I don't mind in my obs. hive since it isn't there for honey.

Rick
Rick

Offline Mountaineerfan

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2007, 11:04:11 PM »
Well, there you go, we all knew it would happen!  I went in today to find my new queen dead in her cage.   :'( I also found that the queen I couldn't find had returned and was laying!   :)
So, I wish that I had had the equipment to make a nuc, but I guess I now have a $20 lesson in beekeeping...
Thanks everyone!
Steve

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Phooey!! Where did she come from?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2007, 07:38:50 AM »
Sounds like a virgin emergency queen who was in the hive when you introduced the other queen who is now laying 24 to 28 days after you accidentally killed the old one.
Michael Bush
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My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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