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Author Topic: Non Chemical substance  (Read 4872 times)

Offline doak

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Non Chemical substance
« on: May 13, 2007, 06:41:23 PM »
So what does the Suppliers have that are non Chemcial that is good to use for Varroa and Tracheal mites?
doak

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2007, 10:24:37 PM »
>So what does the Suppliers have that are non Chemcial that is good to use for Varroa and Tracheal mites?

Dadant, Brushy Mt, Betterbee have small cell (4.9mm) foundation.  :)

The best thing for tracheal mites is good queens.
Michael Bush
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Offline Kirk-o

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2007, 12:13:17 AM »
I second the motion small cell all the way
kirko
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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2007, 09:32:17 PM »
I use natural cell.  I put in starter strips and let the bees draw the size they need.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Offline kathyp

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007, 10:00:24 PM »
the problem is in how you define chemical. :-) formic acid and thymol are two that are commonly used.  both are "chemicals" found in abundance in nature.  OA controls varroa but not tracheal mites.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2007, 10:14:07 PM »
In natural and organic beekeeping chemical means that if it doesn't occur naturally in nature but is generated by human manipulation of chemical components then its a chemical.  With that said, man has been able to artifically replicate natural substances and have used nature compounds for chemical uses.  You must draw you own guidelines.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Offline Kirk-o

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2007, 10:41:27 PM »
Mother Nature didn't put Chemicals in Hives of any kind.Most Problems are mans Solutions.
kirko
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Offline doak

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 01:08:28 AM »
Thanks all, I've got to get some herbs planted.
I've got cat nip and speerment. Need some sage, anything else?
doak

Offline Finsky

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007, 03:12:56 AM »
Thanks all, I've got to get some herbs planted.
I've got cat nip and speerment. Need some sage, anything else?
doak

Herbs are more poisonous than chemicals. Plants have vast variety toxic "chemicals"  with which they protect themselves against herbivores.  Human is not herbivore. His stomach does not stand plant material like cow's or cheeps'.  In ancient time human used a lot "natural substances" but they were unpure and several toxic substances caused other effects. When certain stuffs were puriefied from other substances, it was able to measure them and give certain dose. So we got chemical.

If you use herbs, leaves and what ever natural smokestuff, they are more poisonous than pure chemicals. Contents cannot be followed because they are so many. 

You see smoke coming from your smoker. It is tar and all kind of tars are carsinogenic.


Offline doak

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 09:22:45 AM »
Sorry I didn't make clear. I am planting the herbs for the blooms. If the bees want to "graze" on them fine, if not, fine. They work my catnip blooms, and I have heard sage honey is good.
I use 100% cotton and untreated lawn clippings for smoke.
doak

Offline kathyp

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 11:12:32 AM »
chives are good.  the bees like them and so do i!
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline reinbeau

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 02:51:01 PM »
Chives are alliums, and bees love all alliums.  Let some leeks overwinter and go to flower, the bees will go wild!

Finsky said: 
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Herbs are more poisonous than chemicals.
Some are, some aren't.  Painting with a broad brush doesn't make you right.
Quote
Plants have vast variety toxic "chemicals"  with which they protect themselves against herbivores.  Human is not herbivore.
No, humans aren't herbivores, they are omnivores, which means we are equipped to eat both meat and plant foods. 
Quote
His stomach does not stand plant material like cow's or cheeps'.
That just isn't true.
Quote
In ancient time human used a lot "natural substances" but they were unpure and several toxic substances caused other effects. When certain stuffs were puriefied from other substances, it was able to measure them and give certain dose. So we got chemical.
True only in some instances, in others the natural form is far superior. You can precisely measure out cyanide, the fact that you get a precise measurement doesn't change the fact that it's poison.

Quote
If you use herbs, leaves and what ever natural smokestuff, they are more poisonous than pure chemicals.
That depends entirely on what you're putting into the smoker.  Wood breaks down into chemicals when you burn it, too.  Your 'more poisonous than chemicals' statement is an exaggeration and depends entirely on what is being burned.

Quote
You see smoke coming from your smoker. It is tar and all kind of tars are carsinogenic.
Then don't haul it into your lungs.

As I asked before, Finsky, why are you bothering with this little subforum?  We're trying to learn and share here, not spread misinformation or debate you.

- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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Offline Finsky

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2007, 01:39:36 AM »

  Some are, some aren't. 

10 points answer


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No, humans aren't herbivores, they are omnivores, which means we are equipped to eat both meat and plant foods. 

10 + points

Quote
His stomach does not stand plant material like cow's or cheeps'.
That just isn't true.

0 points


Quote
True only in some instances, in others the natural form is far superior. .

0 points.


Quote
You can precisely measure out cyanide, the fact that you get a precise measurement doesn't change the fact that it's poison..

It depends on doze.  0 points. Potato has many poisonous stuffs but human can stand it.


Quote
That depends entirely on what you're putting into the smoker. 

To use your brais is goo idea. 10+ points.

Wood breaks down into chemicals when you burn it, too.  Your 'more poisonous than chemicals' statement is an exaggeration and depends entirely on what is being burned.


Quote
As I asked before, Finsky,

That is good question. Even I do not know the answer. Many of you are delivering wrong information to people.  You are calling normal beekepers as "toxic beekeepers" or "chemical beekeeprs".
Have you persons, which keep your boots on ground. There are well known methods to do things and you doomed them just so.

If you want to imitate natural bee nursing, you do not need to mock others chemical or toxic

.

Offline reinbeau

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2007, 07:18:56 AM »
Quote
That is good question. Even I do not know the answer. [
I know the answer.  You don't agree so you feel the need to tell us how wrong we are.  Stop it.  We don't care what you say about it, because it's obvious you have no intention of believing anyone who has any successes with these methods. 
Quote
Many of you are delivering wrong information to people.
No, Finsky, we're discussing something you don't agree with.  You delivered plenty of misinformation in your screed about humans not being herbivores. 
Quote
You are calling normal beekepers as "toxic beekeepers" or "chemical beekeeprs".
No one has called anyone a toxic or chemical beekeeper.  No one but you is attacking anyone or their methods.  We are trying to raise bees without toxic chemicals, however, and I have seen enough evidence to show it can be done.
Quote
Have you persons, which keep your boots on ground. There are well known methods to do things and you doomed them just so.
I can't even begin to understand what you're trying to say here.

Quote
If you want to imitate natural bee nursing, you do not need to mock others chemical or toxic
Try taking some of your own advice.

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Offline doak

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2007, 12:56:30 PM »
For what it's worth. Who feeds what, to the "wild/ferrel" bees. Seems to me they are still plenty of them in my area of the country.

I or no one else can say where they came from, a beekeeper or other ferrel colonies.

I just wonder what is the "CCD" ratio amongst them

I wonder if Finsky Knows.
No pun intended
doak

Offline Robo

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2007, 08:52:56 PM »
As I asked before, Finsky, why are you bothering with this little subforum?  We're trying to learn and share here, not spread misinformation or debate you.

Perhaps for the same reason Kirk-o pushed small cell in the other forums when people ask about traditional beekeeping methods???? :?
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Offline Kirk-o

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2007, 11:20:14 AM »
The Feral Bees are Flourishing in LA.The L A tree surgeon told me he could get 200 swarms every spring if I wanted they bag the and get rid of them.When I went to Arizona to get bees from Dee Lusby all along the highway there were feral bees out in the most hostile enviroment you could think of.Little water hoter than hell.Were the water stations were for the cars signs Caution Bee Activity.
But the wild bees aren't getting treated in any way and are on natural cell.
all my bees are from wild bees

kirko
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Offline reinbeau

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2007, 07:13:06 PM »
As I asked before, Finsky, why are you bothering with this little subforum?  We're trying to learn and share here, not spread misinformation or debate you.

Perhaps for the same reason Kirk-o pushed small cell in the other forums when people ask about traditional beekeeping methods???? :?
Well, I'm not pushing anything other than trying to learn about nontoxic beekeeping.  I didn't see Kirk-o call anyone names or anything else.  I don't see why every post here needs to be answered with acrimony by Finsky.  No one should be 'pushing' anything, we're all here to learn - if we've got an open enough mind to do so.

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Offline Robo

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2007, 08:39:40 PM »
Well, I'm not pushing anything other than trying to learn about nontoxic beekeeping.  I didn't see Kirk-o call anyone names or anything else.  I don't see why every post here needs to be answered with acrimony by Finsky.  No one should be 'pushing' anything, we're all here to learn - if we've got an open enough mind to do so.

Never said you where trying to push anything nor did I say Kirk-o was calling anyone names.   My only point was that just because someone doesn't agree with organic/natural/small cell doesn't mean they shouldn't post in this forum.

I find it just as annoying when someone asks about sucricide application or the effects of powder sugar on honey from a varroa blaster and are told small cell is the answer.   That's spamming the thread if you ask me.

I'm not trying to defend Finsky,  just the right for those that disagree to express their side.  Trust me,  I've learned to ignore him a long time ago.

Peace.....
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Non Chemical substance
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2007, 10:42:11 PM »
When someone in a general forum asks about XYZ and someone posts that for this problem they use ABC, I don't see a problem with this.

This is someone posting about not using chemicals in a forum that's ABOUT not using chemicals and getting told they SHOULD use chemicals.

Not the same thing at all.
Michael Bush
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