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Author Topic: Bees & the End of the Human Race  (Read 4953 times)
Shizzell
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« on: May 10, 2007, 12:54:02 PM »

Alright, I know this could be under conspiracy theories, but since it relates to bees I'll post it here first.
Some people believe that only 4 years after the common honey bee dies out, the human race as we know it will fall. Anybody believe in that? Also, recent studies by scientists have decided that radio waves are hurting the bees somehow? Has anyone heard about this, or considered it? I doubt that radio waves pose as much of a threat as other diseases + mites such as verroa and such but who knows?

We better not use our cell phones by the hives then...

Undecided

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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2007, 01:40:38 PM »

I think it's pretty unlikely, since radio towers, tv towers, and power lines have been around for decades, with no noticeable effect. Having direct exposure to radiation for a long period of time would do something, but with bees living such short lives, it's unlikely they could absorb enough from these to make a difference.

I think humans would survive more than 4 years without honey bees, but in a much sadder world.
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2007, 01:42:27 PM »

You haven't been reading everything posted on the CCD page have you. The cell phone thing wasn't even a cell phone that done what was done by the guy that started the whole mess.

There will be bees long after people are gone. 
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2007, 02:05:33 PM »

The FOUR YEAR quote was from Einstein who said "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man."

Now I'm trowing this theory of mine on the table "What if the current problems with honeybee is either:

1) the distinction of the race - species have come and gone and disappear for unknown reasons, and surely the honeybee is no safer than other life forms on this ever evolving planet.

2) They no longer want to be raised by man, we have hived the, chemically weakened their natural ability to fight paracitical attack, protected them as if we were raising wild animals with no intent to ever release it back to nature.

I'm not sure much more bees can take, we have massive solar activity, global warming, bombarment from radio waves from all parts of the spectrum, continually strived to make LESS AGRESSIVE BEES, honestly all honeybees are supposed to be like Africanised Bee - if not for the generations of man constantly turning them into "relative sissys" in the insect world, be would have strong self preservation of their species - but man cannot leave anything alone.

Of course there is always those who believe the MOTHERSHIP is beaming them up with a super-powered pheromone and taking them back to a distant planet which lost it's own bees (or similar polinator) and now need all ours to stop THEIR species of Alien from going extinct in 4 years.

The whole idea of NOT finding feral swarms and billions of dead bees everywhere really is a puzzle - maybe it is just their time to go away - the Trilobyte is a miniture horseshoe crab like 500 million to 550 million year old creature. It was and remains the MOST prolife and longest lasting species on the planet, although exstinct 500 million years, no other creature inhabited Earth as it did. Then one day it died off millions of years before the dinosaur roamed the planet.

I only ask this: if it IS honeybee's turn to disappear from Earth, is there anything that we can really do to prevent it? Sure, we can continue to get farm raised bees EACH season to replace those who died or left mysteriously. How long will the average beekeeper BUY BEES Season after Season?? Demand then dictates growth, polinators will push the bee producers to their limits and eventually (if it is meant to be) then all attempts at mating will stop and the spieces will evaporate from our radar.

I hope this extreme scenario isn't what we are in store for, but man's intervention may be the death of the honeybee  -  I never hear how the Africanized are doing, anyone getting CCD reports of AHBs?

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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2007, 03:31:13 PM »

Actually, I've read that there is strong doubt that Einstein ever said such a thing - as a physicist his writings don't appear to mention bees at all and the quote seems to have suddenly appeared when Begian beekeepers protested in 1994.

Check Snopes.com for a full writeup (the site won't allow me to post a link).
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2007, 03:41:43 PM »



I only ask this: if it IS honeybee's turn to disappear from Earth, is there anything that we can really do to prevent it?


I give to you free advice. Stop playing with those top bars and small cells. Siberian Russians have standard cell size 5,6 and they have no problem with CCD, varroa or anything. Men's life time is just short. They drink too much.

Quote
Sure, we can continue to get farm raised bees EACH season to replace those who died or left mysteriously. How long will the average beekeeper BUY BEES Season after Season??


Trust on marketing powers. They will correct malfunction in your beekeping.

 Bee is not only pollinator. Before beekeping America had no honeybees.

And trust on those small cell  Africanized bees. They will handle the rest.

Key word: Oxalic acid and with Acetic acid against Nosema ceranea + Fumidil B

This will be the win of chemistry!

Don't worry, be happy!




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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 03:55:28 PM »

Actually, I've read that there is strong doubt that Einstein ever said such a thing - as a physicist his writings don't appear to mention bees at all and the quote seems to have suddenly appeared when Begian beekeepers protested in 1994.

Check Snopes.com for a full writeup (the site won't allow me to post a link).


http://www.snopes.com/quotes/einstein/bees.asp
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2007, 03:59:54 PM »

Its all very interesting. Why have the AHB's been not affected by our ability to tame them? Personally I believe that once honey bees are off this planet, nothing will happen. Our ability to pollinate farms and such will be affected as we will lose a large amount of our crop the first 10-20 years until we find another insect to tame and keep so that we can pollinate again. However, will it be too late because of the growing population of the world and the need for honey bees are climbing at a growth that is too slow to support population?

Its all VERY interesting for what the future holds for us.

Jake
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 04:19:51 PM »

I believe it would hurt for a few years but probably just the bee's would be gone, man has been playing god for some years now, making plants that dont have to be pollinated and or disease free plants and so such. I dont think the honey bee's will ever go extinct either..... man will probably go first or take all living things with us when we go except mosquitoes and roaches, those 2 will be last on earth Wink
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 07:51:17 PM »

Four years later the only food available will be rice, corn, wheat and rye.  No coffee, chocolate, fruit, squash, peppers, tomatoes... After that we will all kill ourselves.
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 08:28:03 PM »

Four years later the only food available will be rice, corn, wheat and rye.  No coffee, chocolate, fruit, squash, peppers, tomatoes... After that we will all kill ourselves.

You missed seedless Oranges.. Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 08:43:18 PM »

OH MY GAWD!!!!

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2007, 10:48:07 PM »

I love you people.  I've much to learn and I hope you all continue to help me.  But - I think you've all "lost it".

I'm a farmer.  College educated.  57 years old.  Member of Audubon Society for almost 30 years (though no longer).

None, I repeat, none, of this dire stuff is going to happen.

They will figure out what is causing the Colony Collapse Disorder.  It won't be any of these hair-brained, imagined, wild-eyed, illogical reasons.

It could be serious.  Very serious.  Best example would be the Dutch-Elm Disease, and how it devastated the population of elm trees.  Another would be Chestnut-Blight to Chestnut trees.

It sure as h(eck) won't be cellphones.  And I seriously doubt it has anything to do with pesticides.  It's possible but not likely.  They WILL figure it out.

Have I just "kicked a hot hive", or are you people as gentle as my Italian ladies?




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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2007, 12:00:02 AM »

Finsky reminds us that honeybees are not native to North America, its hard to comprehend this, when the world (my world, United States) seems to have always existed with honeybees. Bees just seem like they have always been with us. Its also weird that many states yrs ago had no Deer. When man messes with nature, perhaps to the extreme, that's when there are major repercussions. Animals react to imbalances by evolving or going extinct. Thank God for scientists, Biologists and conservationists, who study imbalances and help us find ways to correct imbalances. Of course, sometimes its just too little too late. Man, there's just too many darn people on this planet! The planet can only support so much. When will we stop cutting everything down and building more, wanting more needing more of everything! Welcome to the world we live in.
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2007, 12:04:59 AM »


I'm a farmer.  College educated.  57 years old.  Member of Audubon Society for almost 30 years (though no longer).

None, I repeat, none, of this dire stuff is going to happen.

They will figure out what is causing the Colony Collapse Disorder. 


I am 60 and university educated, non farmer. The most wise I will tell that don't worry about CCD because bees will be vanished however. Green house fhenomenom continues and only ice age can stop it. First sun will burn with shining. Pole ices will be melted and all will be covered with water.
After that the water will be freezed and whole globe will be one skating field.

So, what we learned about this: start to learn new hobby, ice hokkey. Finland won USA in hockey competition with one penalty hit. You have long way to go.

How do you live: Start fishing. Bees have no future after all. During II World War Russian war prisoners teached to Finnish how to fish under ice cover. It is better to eberyone to learn that.

Everyone will have home on ice and it is easy to drill an own hole under house.
Of course some like small holes but big holes give bigger fishes.

3 pictures included











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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2007, 07:38:07 AM »

The FOUR YEAR quote was from Einstein who said "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man."

 
Most probably Einstein never said this.  Note the following email:

From: "Roni Grosz" <ronigr@savion.huji.ac.il>
To: "Scott Debnam" <beeresearch@*deleted*.com>
Subject: RE: Dr. Einstein and The Honey Bee
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:37:24 +0300

Dear Mr. Debnam,

I found the following as a widely reported but unconfirmed quote. I
am sorry to have to inform you that the quote you refer to is not
authentic.

If the bee becomes extinct, mankind will have only four years to
live: no bees, no pollination, no plants, no animals, no humans.

I agree with you that Albert Einstein would probably have held your
work in high esteem but I cannot offer you authentic words from him
regarding the bee.

With best regards

Dr. Roni Grosz
Bern Dibner Curator
Albert Einstein Archives
Jewish National & University Library
Hebrew University of Jerusalem
POB 39105 Jerusalem 91390 ISRAEL
TEL: +972-2-658-5781
FAX: +972-2-658-6910
e-mail: ronigr@savion.huji.ac.il
www.albert-einstein.org

Further, Dr. Grosz is quoted in Gelf Magazine
http://www.gelfmagazine.com/archives/albert_einstein_ecologist.php

Perhaps the most bizarre thing about this oft-quoted line is that Einstein probably never said it. Roni Grosz, curator of the Albert Einstein Archives of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, tells Gelf, "There is no proof of Einstein ever having said or written it." While Grosz notes that it is extremely difficult to disprove a quote, he "could not remember even one reference to bees in Einstein's writings."

"Einstein had no particular expertise or even interest in ecology, entomology, or bees."—Roni Grosz


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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2007, 08:15:40 AM »

Quote
except mosquitoes and roaches, those 2 will be last on earth

Twt, what kind of mosquitoes do you have in your neck of the woods?  huh  The kind we have here....I sometimes think if just I died the entire area mosquito population would disappear. rolleyes

Interesting thought though....mosquitoes that feed on roaches.....

-rick
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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2007, 11:31:39 AM »


I'm a farmer.  College educated.  57 years old.  Member of Audubon Society for almost 30 years (though no longer).

None, I repeat, none, of this dire stuff is going to happen.

They will figure out what is causing the Colony Collapse Disorder.


I am 60 and university educated, non farmer. The most wise I will tell that don't worry about CCD because bees will be vanished however. Green house fhenomenom continues and only ice age can stop it. First sun will burn with shining. Pole ices will be melted and all will be covered with water.
After that the water will be freezed and whole globe will be one skating field.

So, what we learned about this: start to learn new hobby, ice hokkey. Finland won USA in hockey competition with one penalty hit. You have long way to go.

How do you live: Start fishing. Bees have no future after all. During II World War Russian war prisoners teached to Finnish how to fish under ice cover. It is better to eberyone to learn that.

Everyone will have home on ice and it is easy to drill an own hole under house.
Of course some like small holes but big holes give bigger fishes.

3 pictures included














Here is your logical outcome.


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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2007, 12:31:03 PM »

Why can't we all just Pray that our GOD, who has taken care of everything before us and will take care after we are gone, would just take care of this. Prayer is very powerful if you have faith. I think it will all work out just fine. I have faith. grin
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« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2007, 03:47:09 PM »

Why can't we all just Pray that our GOD, who has taken care of everything before us and will take care after we are gone, would just take care of this. Prayer is very powerful if you have faith. I think it will all work out just fine. I have faith. grin

Read Revelations lately?
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« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2007, 03:49:10 PM »

Lol.
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2007, 03:55:25 PM »

. Prayer is very powerful if you have faith.. grin

Sory, if truth has no home. But God helps only those who help himself.

First lets take all together top bar and then shake!

.
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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2007, 04:38:13 PM »

Why can't we all just Pray that our GOD, who has taken care of everything before us and will take care after we are gone, would just take care of this. Prayer is very powerful if you have faith. I think it will all work out just fine. I have faith. grin
I have heard your prayers the answer is no.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2007, 06:47:23 PM »

hay finsky cool pics,which one is your house?  grin grin
truth? how do green house plants get pollenated?  evil
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2007, 09:29:32 PM »

hay finsky cool pics,which one is your house?  grin grin
truth? how do green house plants get pollenated?  evil
bob
They're either self-fertile, parthenocarpic or they use bumblebees
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2007, 11:38:57 PM »

It would be hard to envision Einstein making such an inaccurate statement. But then, the guy couldn't even wash a dish, tie his shoes, etc. Out side of his field of expertise he was notoriously unremarkable.
There have been countless cultures that have flourished on diets non-dependant upon the honeybee. But, like so many truths, that one is SO boring - much better for the ratings to have hand-wringing and doomsday predictions.
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« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2007, 01:37:53 AM »

. Prayer is very powerful if you have faith.. grin

Sory, if truth has no home. But God helps only those who help himself.

First lets take all together top bar and then shake!

.

What?

Oh and by the way Finsky, what about Methane?  (Cattle Farts)  It retains heat in the atmosphere more than 20 times what CO2 does.

Ok, now we know what will end the human race.  smiley
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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2007, 12:49:21 PM »

. Prayer is very powerful if you have faith.. grin

Sory, if truth has no home. But God helps only those who help himself.

First lets take all together top bar and then shake!

.
Finsky,     Show me in the Bible where it says that God only helps those who help themselves.
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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2007, 10:02:17 PM »

>Show me in the Bible where it says that God only helps those who help themselves.

It's in 2nd Franklins Chapter 3 Verse 2.
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2007, 09:35:47 AM »



It's in 2nd Franklins Chapter 3 Verse 2.

What in the world is that?
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2007, 09:54:13 AM »

What will end is current practices of bee keeping as an industry.
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« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2007, 10:12:05 AM »

Perhaps so. Can you imagine that, the hobbyist with say 5-50 hives as the main honey suppliers. Honey prices through the roof. Or maybe they will ban the gmos and turn to full organic gardening (again prices through the roof) Well, we know something major needs to happen for the good of all of us and the bees.
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« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2007, 10:32:17 AM »



It's in 2nd Franklins Chapter 3 Verse 2.

What in the world is that?

Ben Franklin is the one that said it.
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« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2007, 07:12:36 PM »

 Something to consider is there were no honey bees in the US till europeons started settling the contry. There are flys, moths ,butterfly other types of bees and a whole host of other insects that also pollinate so as that goes I don't really think mankind will come to a end but it sure would slow down a bit I think.
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« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2007, 10:52:07 PM »

Trapperbob:

That is true, but we also didn't have the vast variety of farm raise crops in this country to pollinate then either, nor a customer to sell it to. Man is Earth's worst enemy, we import creatures to pollinate crops, build an addiction to their pollinating skills, then kill them with parasites, diseases and unknown threats like CCD which I'm sure we will find that we are also responcible for.

I still think it may be a reaction to the commercial food sources bees are fed, is it really part of their dietary needs - dogs can live off of vegitables, maybe not enjoy it, but they can live off of it - cats cannot. Even if the veggies are 100% flawless and vitamin filled, you still end up with a dead cat. Could commercial beekeepers be their own worse enemy? The CCD problem surely seems to hit commercial operations greater than backyard beekeepers.

Just a few thoughts.
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« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2007, 11:14:16 PM »

I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that the whole CCD "missing bees" deal is totally an issue of how humans manage bees. Remember that in nature these little gals don't get trucked all over the country or have their hives configured the way we do it. Totally a management issue. As far as the press takes it however.. it's a big deal because is SOUNDS like a big deal... This is it.. bees are gone.. end of the world.. were all dead.. film at 11.
Bees did make it thru all those ice ages without any feeders.
--jeff
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« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2007, 11:34:10 PM »

I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that the whole CCD "missing bees" deal is totally an issue of how humans manage bees. Remember that in nature these little gals don't get trucked all over the country or have their hives configured the way we do it. Totally a management issue. As far as the press takes it however.. it's a big deal because is SOUNDS like a big deal... This is it.. bees are gone.. end of the world.. were all dead.. film at 11.
Bees did make it thru all those ice ages without any feeders.
--jeff
Warmer , warmer, hot, hot, your boiling.

But how do you think a bunch of beekeepers will take it when you tell them the problem is they way they keep bees. Do you think they will react in a mature scientific manner and say there may be some credence to what you say and I will investigate further or do you think they will jump up and down and scream but this is how I have been keeping bees for years and there hasn't been any previous problems.

That for centuries we have been breading wimpy bees and the current stock sucks. That when the varroa finally arrived we reacted by grabbing every chemical short of liquid drano and poured on our bees. So now you have bees of weak stock, living in a chemical bath. Let's start moving them around country. No more stress issues there. Let's see we have chemicals for mites, wax moth, and other nasties. Let's mix those with chemicals from an apple orchard. Then we will swing them to the orange groves and see what happens when we mix those chemicals in. Don't forget we don't want our bees to be a natural size so we make them larger than they would normally be.

You know there may be a parasite or virus that is responsible for CCD but much like certain staph infections. It may be a super bug because of all the crap we have done to our bees that it has simply become resistant to everything currently out there.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Finsky
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« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2007, 12:50:45 AM »

Perhaps so. Can you imagine that, the hobbyist with say 5-50 hives as the main honey suppliers. Honey prices through the roof.


Basic reason for high prices is that honey has som much chemicals that chemial industry uses it widely as raw material.
Many high value chemicals can be picked from honey.
You need a mining licence if you keep bees.

The most important is to breed chemical tolerant bees that they are able to use strong chemical solutions.
Small cells bees are the best because they can go into small holes and they can disiolve many kind of metals from electical carbage.

In Chernobyl they have breeded a bee stock which is able to enrich uramium from power plant's environment. They found that bees are flying with nuclear power. That is why bees gather uranium solutions. Chernobyl mites are most valuble because their have highest concentration. They are real energy buttons.

The most productive  beekeeping areas in the world 2075.
It is just a coincidence  that it resembles almost a 100 years old  map.




.
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« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2007, 01:12:35 AM »

.
Chernobyl bee race. Bees flye with nuclear power



Honey extracting room 2075



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Mklangelo
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« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2007, 08:20:24 AM »

I wonder about you sometimes Finsky, send me some of those good Finnish drugs please.



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« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2007, 08:59:08 AM »

I wonder about you sometimes Finsky, send me some of those good Finnish drugs please.


It may be just climate. One psychiatrist worked in Lappland on noth side of polar circle. He told in TV that inhabitants  have a special habit to tell their achievements.  If they tell that they have got 7 feet long pike, let it be. You need not go to measure it, just listen.


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« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2007, 09:58:42 AM »

Holy carumba!!!!  What a thread!!!!  Have a wonderful day, great life, best of healthy stuff.  Cindi
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« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2007, 10:42:02 AM »

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