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Author Topic: "hobby rearing"  (Read 2889 times)
Mici
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« on: March 12, 2007, 04:41:22 PM »

Alea Acta Est!
the #3 hive has to be requeened! the chalk brood is just above acceptable rate!!! so i've done a little research and found out that the "hopkins" or "case" method might be easy enough for me.
( i really don't want to buy queens since the one i'm planning on requeening is bought and the other also-"just above the water-hive" is also from a bought queen, actually the two colonyes were bought, other 3 are doing..great!)

ok, i'm good in english but i still wanna make sure i got it right.
basicly, you make a queenless 3-5 frame"nuc" and at the same time, you put an empty frame in the hive from which you want the queen, after 3-4 days, the before empty frame is perfectly lain and can be put into that nuc. before you put it in, you kind of, scrape a few lines through it ermmm horizontaly, leaving 2 cells in each row or so (this part concernes me the most). the nuc will happily accept this fresh lain brood and rear at least a dozen of queens from this frame, oh, when making this "nuc" you have to put emerging brood.

the next thing...if i wanted to keep more than just one queen, could i cage the queen cells a day or two prior emerging? (this one might be a bit to much huh?) anyway, would be still great to cut most of the queen cells and put them in alco for swarm lures? or do virgin queens not have those pheromones?

just another thing, royal gelle has to be stored at -1 to -5 ° C, would mixing it with alcohol destroy it?


oh, hopkins method, someone posted it before, here's the link: Hopkins method
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2007, 09:47:46 PM »

>basicly, you make a queenless 3-5 frame"nuc" and at the same time, you put an empty frame in the hive from which you want the queen, after 3-4 days, the before empty frame is perfectly lain and can be put into that nuc.

More than that, you want larvae that is exactly the right age.  They will not rear queens from eggs nor will they rear queens from larvae that is way too old.  They will rear poor queens from larvae that is a little too old.  The easiest way to get larvae of the correct age is use a #5 push in cage to confine the queen on new comb to get her to lay in it. 

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/QueenConfinement5.jpg

Then three and a half to four days later you scrape out half the rows and two out of three of the cells in the remaining rows and put them over a VERY CROWDED five frame nuc.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/HopkinsShim.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/HopkinsFrame.jpg

 If it's not OVERFLOWING with bees, this will not work.

>the next thing...if i wanted to keep more than just one queen, could i cage the queen cells a day or two prior emerging?

You can.  You can either make cages with #8 hardware cloth or you could buy hair curler cages from one of the bee suppliers.  But I haven't had a lot of luck with this.  Many of the virgins are often killed by the bees or ignored and they starve.  I have much better luck with the queens emerging into the queenless hive or the mating nuc that have been queenless overnight.

>do virgin queens not have those pheromones?

Some but not NEARLY as much as a laying queen.

>just another thing, royal gelle has to be stored at -1 to -5 ° C, would mixing it with alcohol destroy it?

Royal jelly will keep at room temperature for long periods of time without mixing it with anything.  However, I don't use it in queen rearing anymore.

More Hopkins info and queen rearing info here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Mici
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2007, 06:27:41 PM »

first i wanna thank you for all the answers, helped a lot! but there are still a few issues.
i read from your site, about this method, and i think i read more than just once that bees will happily accept eggs aswell, that they'll feed the egg, before it hatches. plus i don't understand why wouldn't they take the eggs? i mean...we are talking about bees right? about those small but smarter-than-we-think creatures? so...they'll wait until they hatch, if not, why not?


having more than one queen, let's say i confined 5 of the queen cells and left 1 opened, after the first queen is mated and starts laying, i confine her and let the other out..and so until they're all mated? if not, what would be the minimum, or...a good number of bees to keep her, if the virgin queen is the only one, they will feed her right?can i like, make small boxes, throw in some bees, put a few starter strips and cut some honey comb and put it in, would it work as a mating nuc or are there bigger needs?


could you please explain this #5 and #8 cloth, this is wired mesh right? and the #5 has 4,2mm holes-works as a queen excludor? or what are the measures?is 4mm to small for bees to pass, since i doubt they sell 4,2mm

about the gelly,  i was actually thinking about putting a drop of it into my mead, that's why i wanted to know about mixing it with alcohol.

for all your answers i'm grateful and am already thankful!
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 07:21:31 AM »

>that they'll feed the egg, before it hatches. plus i don't understand why wouldn't they take the eggs?

Eggs in a normally orientated cell.  Yes.  If they are queenless will they rear a queen from eggs?  Not if there is larvae the right age.  If the eggs are in cells that are turned (like the frame on it's side) they just remove them because they are cleaning house and they didn't put them there and they aren't larvae.  I've tried using eggs in the Jenter (where it's easy to transfer them) and I've never seen the bees raise them.  They just remove them.

>if not, why not?

You'd have to ask them.  But that has been my experience 100% of the time.

>having more than one queen, let's say i confined 5 of the queen cells and left 1 opened, after the first queen is mated and starts laying, i confine her and let the other out..and so until they're all mated?

It takes about two weeks from the time they emerge until they are laying.  usually three or four days of hardening, a couple of days of orientation and then one or two days of mating and then they start to lay.  This changes depending on the weather.  If a virgin goes three weeks without mating she will be a drone layer after she mates.  I don't think you can get them all mated.  You might get two mated in one mating nuc this way.

> if not, what would be the minimum, or...a good number of bees to keep her, if the virgin queen is the only one, they will feed her right?

A mini mating nuc is just a handful of bees.  My mating nucs are just two standard frames.  I give them a frame of brood and a frame of honey and it works well.

>can i like, make small boxes, throw in some bees, put a few starter strips and cut some honey comb and put it in, would it work as a mating nuc or are there bigger needs?

As long as they are fed and protected from robbing, yes.

>could you please explain this #5 and #8 cloth, this is wired mesh right? and the #5 has 4,2mm holes-works as a queen excludor? or what are the measures?

I don't know the metric version.  #5 is five wires per inch.  It serves as a queen excluder and is used in pollen traps.  It works well to confine a queen to lay eggs for queen rearing as the workers can care for her but she will lay in a known area over a known time period.

>about the gelly,  i was actually thinking about putting a drop of it into my mead, that's why i wanted to know about mixing it with alcohol.

I never tried it.  But it keeps pretty well by itself except that it dries out.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Mici
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 03:52:18 PM »

mr. Bush once again thank you! this answers have been very helpfull!

now...which one of my US buddyes would be so kind to measure the inner diameter of the #5 mesh?, if i calculate, it comes 5mm, while the queen excludor is 4,2. ok..the wire does take up some space but..how much, that's the question!
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 08:39:49 PM »

The opening between the wires on #5 is 4.5mm (or 4,9mm European notation).  The spacing OF the wires on center is 5.0mm (or 5,0mm).
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
mat
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 11:16:57 AM »

Michael, how much room is needed under the top, flat frame in the Hopkins method.
Mat
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mat
Mici
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2007, 07:37:33 AM »

darn darn darn!!¨!!
i do not know why..but from reading much info about queen rearing, somehow 18 days got stuck in my head! 18!!!!, checked them out today, to move the cells..bah you know what i saw angry embarassed
luckly, this queen rearing was purely experimental so...the hive still raised the queen for itself, just hope she gets back from mating succesfuly Smiley wish me/her luck!

(it takes 16 days not 18, for queen to hatct)
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2007, 03:16:54 PM »

>Michael, how much room is needed under the top, flat frame in the Hopkins method.

I made my shim out of one by threes with a one by (3/4") holding up the frame, leaving 1" from the face of the frame to the top bars.

>it takes 16 days not 18, for queen to hatct

And you should transfer them in 14 days to make sure because in hot weather they will emerge in 15.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Mici
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2007, 03:24:14 PM »

ah well...better luck next time. i just hope the queen gets back from mating flight succesfully, if she does, i did OK (unfortunatelly not excelent)
it's just amazing, today they're already bringing in pollen, and lots of it, although the queen isn't laying jet and they're just so lively!


ok, the queen cells i cut out (the unwanted ones) how good are their chances of developing normaly at room temp (20°C) i know it's not enough, but will they develope in my room?
i also put one queen cell into the mating nuc, although one of the "unwanted" breed, looked today it was chewed up, but i couldn't find the queen, and i put a fairly young cell in so it's possible she didn't make it or the mating nuc has gone "laying worker"
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doak
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 10:44:30 PM »

Mici, you may want to consider making up as many "mating nuc's"for as many queens  as you're going to rear. Still' use the full colony for cell building. Then go in and take the capped cells and put one in each mating nuc. Give her time to start laying then  cage her. Or, if your in a hurry, take the old queen from the colony you intend to requeen and leave it queenless over night, time enough to let the bees know they are queenless. Else they will destroy the cell.
doak
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