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Author Topic: Sugar shaking -- stuck in my head  (Read 5801 times)
Cindi
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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 01:07:40 AM »

Finsky, you are far too vague.  If you want people to listen and learn, you must elaborate further on things that you write about.  That means to talk more deeply about things so people understand better what you mean.  There are a lot of people that really value your advice, and you know that I am one for sure.  I have missed your mentoring on this forum, and I have no problem proclaiming this to anyone who listens and learns.  Become active again in this forum, teaching us, we are listening, learning.

Elaborate means two things:

1)  Deeper explanation
2)  Something that is very beautiful and expensive looking

I remember that one time in a post the word "elaborate" was mistaken for the wrong definition  Smiley

Great day, great life, great health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Finsky
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« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2007, 06:00:17 AM »

If you want people to listen and learn,

If people do not to learn, it is same if angels tell it. I have told all what I know and wrtings are here.
First advice: STOP SHAKING AND CALCULATING. IT HAVE NOT HELPED, HAVEN'T IT? START KILLING.
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Cindi
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« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2007, 12:33:06 PM »

Finsky, what you say is good.  But....sometimes it is good to calculate the mite counts so the person can see if their mite counts are high or low.  I agree with killing the mites.  But....still knowing what one is dealing with is a good thing.  I do not agree with you there.  The end result is to kill the mites.  But human curiosity is basically why I see counting the mite levels is a good thing.

If there are no mites present in a colony (by using a sticky board and counting), it would be counterproductive to treat a hive.  There would be no reason to apply any mite control methods.  The likelihood of no mites is remote.  Except for, as Michael Bush and Dee Lusby say (and perhaps many more) who use the small cells say, they have no mites.

Also, Finsky, you must know this.  If the mite levels are EXTREMELY high, the 21 day formic acid treatment is not enough.  There must be more acid put into the hive so that the treatment is doubled in length.  If the mite levels are reasonable, then the 21 day treatment plan is sufficient.  But, do you know this?  It is in the Mitegone site and speaks about it.  Important.

I am of the  belief that the sugar shaking is positive.  There are times when formic acid (and definitely oxalic acid) must not be used in the colonies.  When the honey flow is occurring.  But for beekeepers that will not be selling their honey commercially (example would be for themselves) or (friends), the sugar shake I think is good.  It reduces the mite counts and cannot do any harm by reducing the numbers.  The small amount of powdered sugar that may taint honey so it is not 100% honey (that could be sold commercially), is not bad for the small time beekeeper.  I doubt if very much powdered sugar would get into the honey anyways....but.....

I still agree with you though, beekeepers must kill the mites.  Have a wonderful and a great life along with it.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Cindi
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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2007, 12:38:17 PM »

Right, forgot.  There are many forum members that don't know you Finsky.  You have written some excellent posts and I encourage forum members to go into your profile and view the many many posts that you have written, they have some wonderful advice.  Along with your good posts, are also some others that had great posts too.  Have a wonderful day, love our life we're all livin'.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2007, 06:06:39 PM »

I beleive Finsky uses oxalic acid between the frames with a syringe applicator. From what I have read it is very effective on the mites but not approved here in the good ole US.
(Finsky,I read what your writing. I don't grasp every bit of it but am trying to learn.
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Cindi
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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2007, 12:37:55 AM »

Ken, awe, come on.  I don't quite get this either.  Oxalic Acid is "approved in Canada."  But not in the USA.

We use here, OA, in a sugar syrup trickle, when the colony is broodless.  Great day, fabulous life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2007, 06:36:51 AM »

There was a mention of permacomb and small cell setups in this string.

Sorry if this is old ground for some of you but could someone explain what 'permacomb and small cell setup' means and how this eliminates Varroa?

And if it does work why aren't all beekeepers doing it?

Regards, David.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2007, 06:54:49 AM »

>Sorry if this is old ground for some of you but could someone explain what 'permacomb

PermaComb is fully drawn plastic comb. 
http://www.beesource.com/bee-l/bulletinboard/seets/permacomb.htm

The cell size is about 5.1mm.  Standard foundation is 5.4mm.  I heat it, dip it in wax, shake off the excess and get perfectly accepted 4.95mm combs.

Honey Super Cell is 4.9mm.
http://www.honeysupercell.com/sblog/

> and small cell setup' means and how this eliminates Varroa?

Small cell foundation is available from Brushy Mt, Dadant and Betterbee, and probably others.  There are a lot of theories on why small cell works.  Most likely it is a combination of factors, but a simple measurable one is capping and post capping times.  Also small cell plastic frames are available from Mann Lake. They have large cell also, so if you want small cell you'll need to get the PF100 or PF120 (depending on the depth of your equipment).

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

>And if it does work why aren't all beekeepers doing it?

I ask that every day.  But here are more than a thousand people who are doing it or talking about doing it here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Organicbeekeepers

And more information here:
http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/index.htm
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Robo
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« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2007, 08:11:15 AM »

And if it does work why aren't all beekeepers doing it?

Probably because it is not a simple fix as with applying chemicals.  It takes time, effort, and resources to regress.
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"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


mgmoore7
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« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2007, 08:59:46 AM »

And if it does work why aren't all beekeepers doing it?

Probably because it is not a simple fix as with applying chemicals.  It takes time, effort, and resources to regress.

Yes this is a very good point.  Time and effort.  Not many commercial operations are going to (or can) take the time and effort to regress.

I am trying instant regression with honey super cell.  I have it on one hive now.  I added a deep below the brood box and put a queen excluder below and above the HSC deep.  I put the queen in there with 1 frame of brood.  I am hoping for the best.  I rubbed beeswax on all the frames and sprayed them with my homemade honey bee healthy. 
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