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Jerrymac
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« on: May 07, 2007, 10:45:57 AM »

Somebody sent me this. How many have seen it? I just don't believe it would make a difference as those that don't gas up on the 15th would do it on the 14th or 16th and there would be no difference in the demand. Now if nobody bought ANY petroleum product for a week, that might make a difference, and people would probably see where they can cut down on consumption. Wha-cha-think.....


Pass it on!!! NO GAS...On May 15th 2007 don't pump gas on May 15th... in April 1997, there was a "gas out" conducted nationwide in protest of gas prices. Gasoline prices dropped 30 cents a gallon overnight. On May 15th 2007, all internet users are to not go to a gas station in protest of high gas prices. Gas is now over $3.00 a gallon in most places. There are 73,000,000+ American members currently on the internet network, and the average car takes about 30 to 50 dollars to fill up. If all users did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take $2,292,000,000.00 (that's almost 3 BILLION) out of the oil companies pockets for just one day, so please do not go to the gas station on May 15th and lets try to put a dent in the Middle Eastern oil industry for at least one day.
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2007, 11:09:25 AM »

can't hurt to try smiley.  remember the old odd/even gas days?  as my sister in england pointed out...people who pay 4 bucks for a cup of coffee and are living in the best economy in most peoples memory, will pay a lot for gas without pause.  they pay much more per gallon in europe even though they don't drive as much.  now when the economy tanks as it always does, it might make a difference.

people have to hurt before they change their behavior.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
randydrivesabus
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2007, 11:21:14 AM »

so everyone will fill up on the 14th so they don't have to fill on the 15th. nobody is going to end up using less gas.
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Mici
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 03:21:25 PM »

WHAT WHAT WHAT!!! 3$ per gallon?
bring it on!!!! if we had that price, i'd drive a few 18-wheelers on the 15th and fill the tanks up grin

1€ per liter, almost the same, Diesel or Benzin, so that's..4€ per gallon which is almost 6$ per gallon. not to mention, we still have one of the cheapest gas in Europe, wonder what abejaruco will have to say.
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AllanJ
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 07:41:04 PM »

Gas is too cheap in the US. If it was $6 a gallon, then maybe we might have more fuel efficient vehicles in the US as opposed to having the worst rated fuel vehicles in any developed country.  In England, you would be nuts to purchase any vehicle that did less than 40mpg. In the US, we think nothing of buying vehicles that struggle to get 15mpg.

Amazingly, when the price rose to nearly $4 a gallon a short while back, the sales of SUV's and trucks decreased. Here we are a short while later and they are hot buys again.
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kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 07:55:26 PM »

Quote
Gas is too cheap in the US. If it was $6 a gallon, then maybe we might have more fuel efficient vehicles in the US

doesn't help the trucking business much.  ^fuel ^prices ^inflation....and tank the economy.  since england is about the size of the state i live in, the comparison is not to good.  add to that, they have no real interstate highway system so going a few miles is a major endeavor.

that said, more fuel efficient vehicles would be nice.  so would drilling in alaska and off the gulf.  while we try to work around the tree huggers that won't let us develop nuclear, wind, or hydro, we could become more self sufficient by providing more of our own oil....oh wait.....the tree huggers don't want that either.

petroleum products provide us with more than just fuel.  guess the TH's won't get that until they have to squat over a hole and wipe with tree bark.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllanJ
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 08:15:31 PM »

France produces 70% of its power needs from Nuclear stations.. amazing that the US has not built one in over 30 years.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 08:23:16 PM »

we should.  that may be the one thing that france has done right.  at least before this election.  we don't because every time it's brought up, we have to fight the TH crowd.  nuke power is clean and efficient.  you do have to deal with the waste, but if little france can do it, i'm sure we can figure out how.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
randydrivesabus
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 09:02:51 PM »

it is in the oil co's best interest to keep supply low and prices high. look for another record earnings quarter from exxon-mobil.
my tree hugging self wonders why freight can't be moved by train instead of truck? and what happens with all the nuclear waste?
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AllanJ
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 09:17:24 PM »

what happens with all the nuclear waste?

There are many new methods available of dealing with nuclear waste and also new processes of production.. The nuclear power stations of 40 years is nothing in comparason to the plants they could design and build today. Regardless, this is yet another problem that 400 billion and 5 years would have gone a long way to solving..

.. but who has an interest in solving it when Exxon makes 39 Billion dollars PROFIT.
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 10:06:40 PM »

yes, profit goes up when price goes up.  the cost of doing business does not change much in the oil business, especially when they are kept from doing more exploration and expansion.  if they make a penny on each dollar of oil sold then when the cost goes up by dollars, so does the number of pennies earned.

no, i'm not an oil company apologist, but neither will i knock a company for making a profit.  especially when the rate of increase in profit for an oil company is less than the rate of increase for microsoft (as an example).

trains are super.  after the train gets somewhere, trucks still have to move stuff.  trains are less reliable than trucks many times.  we have not invested in new rail lines.....again....look to the tree huggers who don't what rail lines built through wilderness land, etc.  and we have built homes and businesses where the tracks would go.  what to do about that?

life is about choices.  if you want to go back to the good old days of candles and carts, so be it.   

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
doak
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2007, 11:10:25 PM »

A lot of the Farmers in Georgia are dropping cotton and peanut acreage and planting more corn. We have a Bio-fuel plant going up here. Smiley
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2007, 11:19:36 PM »

And the price of corn has gone up because of ethanol. So now your milk products and meat products are gonna rise also.

http://www.theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070507/NEWS01/705070311

And there is this,

Ethanol has a smoggy side

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18425869/
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2007, 11:40:32 PM »

it's this decades "we're screwed" story.  we went through 0 population growth and now we don't have enough babies being born.  we went through the coming ice age.  now it's a toss up between global warming and coming oil crisis.  i may get so depressed i'll have to go hug trees.   Cry
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2007, 11:55:52 PM »

Don't sweat it. Remember the world ends in 2012.
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2007, 05:06:08 AM »

nuclear waste is no biggy, most of it are the low-risk-waste. this are, clothes from daily checks, tools from daily work..nothing big, they just stuff it into those tanks and let it "cool-down" for a few thousand years LOL.
have you ever seen how much waste a coal based thermoplant emmits? i have, a HUGE pile of dust which has to be watered all day long, not to mention, it's also a bit radioactive.

fuel efficient cars, if i make 100km on 15l of diesel, is that efficient?
(with all 3 of our cars grin)
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2007, 05:38:19 AM »

i gotta agree with y'all about the problem of the day....whatever it is it will cause the world to end. so far in history there must have been thousands of these crisis situations and yet life goes on.
they are supposed to be building a big railroad cargo terminal in this area of Virginia in order to cut down on truck traffic on the interstates here. but no one wants their land bought up and used for that. this ain't tree huggers but people who are happy living where they are and some of the land has been in their families for generations. can't argue with them....they have a right to live the life they want to.
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indypartridge
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« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2007, 10:46:21 AM »

it's this decades "we're screwed" story.  we went through 0 population growth and now we don't have enough babies being born.  we went through the coming ice age.  now it's a toss up between global warming and coming oil crisis.  i may get so depressed i'll have to go hug trees.   Cry
Remember the big push to collect all the thermometers because they contained mercury? How bad it was that these thermometers containing mercury were ending up in landfills? Now we are told to replace all our light bulbs with "energy saving" bulbs which contain mercury! I remember when they shut down the Indy airport a few years back because a trace of mercury was found on some mail. Major decomtamination effort.  Now we are told if we break a mercury bulb, don't vacuum, just clean it up with a wet paper towel.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2007, 12:59:33 AM »

Let me check that date on my Mayan calendar.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Mklangelo
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« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2007, 01:24:01 PM »

Gas is too cheap in the US. If it was $6 a gallon, then maybe we might have more fuel efficient vehicles in the US as opposed to having the worst rated fuel vehicles in any developed country.  In England, you would be nuts to purchase any vehicle that did less than 40mpg. In the US, we think nothing of buying vehicles that struggle to get 15mpg.

Amazingly, when the price rose to nearly $4 a gallon a short while back, the sales of SUV's and trucks decreased. Here we are a short while later and they are hot buys again.

The only reason people complain about the price of gasoline in the U.S. is that they see the prices of it in their faces 100 times a day.  Has anyone noticed that the price of a gallon of milk has risen about 20% in the last 6 months?   How about the prices of groceries going up lately?  Not a word do we hear about that.   

The amount of people driving on this Memorial Day weekend was up about 2.00% from last year.  I have no sympathy for people who cry about the price of fuel and then use it no differently then they ever have.

I think the oil companies are making all their money off of selling it to the Chinese and the Indians whose economies are booming and show no signs of letting up.  China may be heading for a melt-down since they are trying to slow down their economies but so far have been unsuccessful. 

The federal gas tax in the U.S. is 18.4 cents a gallon.  In my state of Wisconsin, the state gets about 46 cents of the pump price for each gallon sold. I believe the oil companies make about 15 cents a gallon, probably less.  The station operator is making about 3 or 5 cents a gallon if he's doing well.  He may even be losing money when folks come and buy with fuel credit cards that offer a certain amount of cents off the price if you use their card. (anyone who knows anything about money will tell you that the last thing you buy with credit is a consumable.)   Who are the crooks here?  At least the oil companies did something to earn their 15 cents...

Think about it.

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If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.
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kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2007, 02:06:11 PM »

the only way to use a credit card is to have one that has no annual fee, gives you cash back, and pay it in full every month.  if you do that, you can actually make money on the credit card.  i have interest checking and pay my card in full each month.  that means that i get to use the credit cards money for free and earn money on my account,  until the bill comes.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Mklangelo
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« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2007, 02:30:51 PM »

the only way to use a credit card is to have one that has no annual fee, gives you cash back, and pay it in full every month.  if you do that, you can actually make money on the credit card.  i have interest checking and pay my card in full each month.  that means that i get to use the credit cards money for free and earn money on my account,  until the bill comes.

Your smart.  Most folks aren't.
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If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.
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« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2007, 02:47:58 PM »

Has anyone noticed that the price of a gallon of milk has risen about 20% in the last 6 months?   How about the prices of groceries going up lately?  Not a word do we hear about that.

Since everything is shipped by trucks then yes the price is going to go up. Since the price of corn went up because of ethanol fuels all meat and dairy is going to rise. It is still the fault of high fuel prices.
   
The amount of people driving on this Memorial Day weekend was up about 2.00% from last year.  I have no sympathy for people who cry about the price of fuel and then use it no differently then they ever have.

But even though there were more people on the road I heard the average trip was a lot shorter. It all depends on the message one is trying to get across.

Now I really get tired of things being compared from country to country. This isn't Europe or Asia or Africa. This is America. In a five day week to get just from work and back home is 120 miles. That is straight to work and straight home. Then there are the days one needs to run around and do things, buy things. It is 150 mile trip to see my mother. I don't get to see her much these days. Because of life style a little bitty tinny car just won't cut it. But if the price keeps going up I could probably buy another vehicle that is fuel efficient and be able to pay for it from the savings on gas for the times I really don't need the bigger vehicle.
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« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2007, 03:10:23 PM »

Has anyone noticed that the price of a gallon of milk has risen about 20% in the last 6 months?   How about the prices of groceries going up lately?  Not a word do we hear about that.

Since everything is shipped by trucks then yes the price is going to go up. Since the price of corn went up because of ethanol fuels all meat and dairy is going to rise. It is still the fault of high fuel prices.
   
The amount of people driving on this Memorial Day weekend was up about 2.00% from last year.  I have no sympathy for people who cry about the price of fuel and then use it no differently then they ever have.


But even though there were more people on the road I heard the average trip was a lot shorter. It all depends on the message one is trying to get across.

Now I really get tired of things being compared from country to country. This isn't Europe or Asia or Africa. This is America. In a five day week to get just from work and back home is 120 miles. That is straight to work and straight home. Then there are the days one needs to run around and do things, buy things. It is 150 mile trip to see my mother. I don't get to see her much these days. Because of life style a little bitty tinny car just won't cut it. But if the price keeps going up I could probably buy another vehicle that is fuel efficient and be able to pay for it from the savings on gas for the times I really don't need the bigger vehicle.

That to me doesn't sound like frivolous driving Jerrymac.   About the fuel affecting the prices, yea, the 18 wheelers are the backbone of the economy.  When those stop, so does everything else.  Kind of like the Honeybees of the economy, if you will.

Don't even get me started on Ethanol.  If you believe that the simplest idea tends to be the most truthful one, than we have made a big mistake with using food for fuel.  Corn is a staple for alot of people all over the world and we are taking an awful lot of it out the the food market and putting it into the fuel market.  Corn farmers are actually able to raise prices for the first time in years.  Hooray for the Corn Farmer, but too bad the the poor guy in Mexico City who now has to pay almost one days wages for a stinking' tortilla...
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If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.
  - Robert X. Cringely
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« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2007, 03:46:09 PM »

It makes no sense to me that we're paying farmers subsidies to not grow crops that we could be using for biofuels.  I have no problem whatsoever using 'food' crops to supply power.  There's plenty of all of it to go around.  But it isn't about feeding people or driving, it's about making money.  That's the crux of many problems we've got to figure a way around.
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« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2007, 04:13:51 PM »

making money is not a problem.  if farmers think they can make money growing crops for bio-fuel, they'll do it.  they'll do it and charge as much as they can for their crops.  IF bio-fuels are the answer, i'll plow up my place and plant corn. 

there are more interesting things about this.  for instance, the fact that people are not changing driving habits.   why not?  because the economy is so good that they are not really being hurt by the higher fuel cost.  the average person is paying a smaller percentage of income for fuel than they did in the 80's.  cost is up, but pain is down.

another interesting thing....how are the tree huggin, coke drinkin, green folks, going to reconcile their glee over the demise of the oil industry and growth of bio-fuel, with the damage that this might do to the food supplies in 3rd world countries?  how will Hugo meet his lofty goals if his oil in his newly nationalized fields is not worth as much?  how will he meet the debts that he has bought from his neighboring countries in exchange for their support against us?

yes...it could be lots of fun.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2007, 05:20:12 PM »

If they find a way to get about 80% efficiency out of a solar panel, it will then be feasible use em' to our advantage.  Right now, depending on what you are willing to pay for the panel, your efficiency will vary from 8% to around 40%.  And the price will go up 100 times from the 8% to the 40% panel.

At the moment, the amount of room needed to place enough panels to get even near the amount of power needed to run a town is ridiculous.  You see these solar powered cars that might get to 70mph on the perfectly level, smooth salt flat?  The car is made of expensive, lightweight polymers and the panel is as big as the car....  Do the math.  Solar technology has a way to go in order to be feasible.

They're working on it, but it's gonna be awhile.

We have a hydrogen furnace at the center of our solar system that is gonna burn for a long, long time.  That is your long term answer, not corn.
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If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.
  - Robert X. Cringely
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« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2007, 07:07:51 PM »

jerry, trust me, small car does cut it Wink
if europe and US exchanged ALL veichles, europe would be stuck whilst US would have 50% faster traffic grin
i think that i couldn't even drive onto our yard with one of those semi-bus like car, hehe

hydrogen, never, not with this technology
solar energy, to scarce although in abundance
geothermal energy..now this one might be...
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« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2007, 07:16:12 PM »

jerry, trust me, small car does cut it Wink
if europe and US exchanged ALL veichles, europe would be stuck whilst US would have 50% faster traffic grin
i think that i couldn't even drive onto our yard with one of those semi-bus like car, hehe

hydrogen, never, not with this technology
solar energy, to scarce although in abundance
geothermal energy..now this one might be...

I mean the sun.  It's fuel is Hydrogen.  Those fuel cell engines that run on hydrogen have a long way to go.  It's kind of hard to get hydrogen to separate from Oxygen.  The fuel is there already for the solar power.  It's FREE and there's more than we will ever need.  We just have to improve the technology of the panels.  They will do it some day.  It's just a matter of time.
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« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2007, 08:13:22 PM »

Now I really get tired of things being compared from country to country. This isn't Europe or Asia or Africa. This is America. In a five day week to get just from work and back home is 120 miles. That is straight to work and straight home.

It depends on what you are comparing. Cost of fuel is one thing, but I think comparing fuel efficiency in vehicles is absolutely the right thing to do.  I still do not fully understand why vehicles in Europe can obtain 50mpg whilst the average US vehicle struggles to get 20mpg.  Why does the auto industry consistently fight any moves to increase the fuel efficiency of vehicles in the US? Why is the US at the bottom of the list when it comes to fuel efficiency?  Why have most other countries mandated increases in fuel efficiency whilst the US tries to remain level?

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« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2007, 09:35:31 PM »

Now I really get tired of things being compared from country to country. This isn't Europe or Asia or Africa. This is America. In a five day week to get just from work and back home is 120 miles. That is straight to work and straight home.

It depends on what you are comparing. Cost of fuel is one thing, but I think comparing fuel efficiency in vehicles is absolutely the right thing to do.  I still do not fully understand why vehicles in Europe can obtain 50mpg whilst the average US vehicle struggles to get 20mpg.  Why does the auto industry consistently fight any moves to increase the fuel efficiency of vehicles in the US? Why is the US at the bottom of the list when it comes to fuel efficiency?  Why have most other countries mandated increases in fuel efficiency whilst the US tries to remain level?
Why did the railroads go away?  Same reason.  Big oil likes us to drive gas guzzling cars all over the country.  Money helps money make more money.  Cynical?  I guess so!  evil
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« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2007, 10:27:41 PM »

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Why did the railroads go away?

they didn't.  people simply moved away from the tracks.  alcohol and ethanol were the fuels of choice until oil was found in this country and became cheaper.  people enjoyed being able to set their own schedulers and go where they wanted.  the auto was freedom.  the train was restriction.

Quote
I still do not fully understand why vehicles in Europe can obtain 50mpg whilst the average US vehicle struggles to get 20mpg.  Why does the auto industry consistently fight any moves to increase the fuel efficiency of vehicles in the US? Why is the US at the bottom of the list when it comes to fuel efficiency?  Why have most other countries mandated increases in fuel efficiency whilst the US tries to remain level?

in the us we would rather let market forces dictate behavior, not the government.  in Europe, they have given over to socialism and government control of all that they do.  in the 70's, when we had fuel shortages, people began to drive more fuel efficient cars.  they had to be imported for the most part.  the unions have the auto industry so tied up that they can not keep up with needs or change.  people will drive what they can afford to drive.  we do not need the government dictating what we drive or how fuel efficient it is.

btw...i noticed that in Europe many of the cars are diesel.  they spew crap into the air endlessly.  not exactly earth friendly?


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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2007, 12:24:20 AM »

jerry, trust me, small car does cut it

There are places I have to go that one needs a vehicle with high clearance, four wheel drive, and good horse power. I also have a trailer that is 24 feet long with a 7,000 pound capacity that I sometimes have to take into these areas, or have to at least pull it out of the mud. Nope a little car just won't do some of the stuff I got to do. Wouldn't even move an inch.
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« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2007, 05:34:39 AM »

people will drive what they can afford to drive.  we do not need the government dictating what we drive or how fuel efficient it is.

btw...i noticed that in Europe many of the cars are diesel.  they spew crap into the air endlessly.  not exactly earth friendly?

but very few realise, thet if they payed just a tiny bit more, they would save loads of money in years to come kilometers to ride. too few people realise that!.
yep, lot of diesel cars around here, we have 3 and they're all diesel, but they're more fuel efficient, say...for 100km they need 3 litres less than benzin cars and the other reason is, diesel used to be cheaper. but, our three  cars eat same ammount of fuel as one in the US, 5.7L/100, 6L/100 and 5L/100.

ok jerry, i guess it wouldn't do it for you but majority.....because the big car trend is getting around you know, and people with big cars usually need them solely to have enough room to drive their EGO with them, nothing else.
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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2007, 08:37:03 AM »

I still do not fully understand why vehicles in Europe can obtain 50mpg whilst the average US vehicle struggles to get 20mpg.  Why does the auto industry consistently fight any moves to increase the fuel efficiency of vehicles in the US? Why is the US at the bottom of the list when it comes to fuel efficiency?  Why have most other countries mandated increases in fuel efficiency whilst the US tries to remain level?
Car companies build and sell the cars that people want to buy. European governments, to my knowledge, have NOT mandated fuel efficiency levels, but rather have enacted policies which cause the cost of fuel to be very high. High fuel costs drive the consumers to smaller, fuel-efficient cars. In the US, with relatively low fuel costs, consumers flock to big, high-performance vehicles.

One of the easiest ways to increase fuel economy is simply to SLOW down. When I drive across the state to pick up my son at college, I drive about 65mph, and often will not pass a single vehicle, but am passed by countless vehicles at high rates of speed.

As was noted in previous posts, despite high gas prices, Americans are driving more, and demand for fuel is UP. Ask any car dealer, who has on his lot two identical cars, one with a 4-cylinder engine, one with a 6-cylinder engine, which will sell fastest?  Horsepower is what consumers want, far more then fuel efficiency.

The government mandates for higher fuel efficiency is simply the government taking the easy way out; pushing the problem on someone else, a "big bad corporation". The government could lower the speed limit to 55mph, or raise gas taxes to European-levels, but that would be very unpopular politically.

Trying to reduce US oil dependency by forcing automakers to produce fuel efficient cars is like trying to reduce American obesity by forcing clothing manufactures to make only small sizes.
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« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2007, 11:01:07 AM »

Quote
like trying to reduce American obesity by forcing clothing manufactures to make only small sizes.

that brought two competing pictures to mind immediately.  both have seared the back of my eyeballs forever  tongue  smiley

mici, i need a big truck also.  when the fuel prices started to climb, i bought a car.  i did not buy the most fuel efficient car on the lot, but it bought the most fuel efficient car that would meet my needs.  instead of driving my great big diesel truck around town, i drive my smaller (4 cylinder) toyota camry  smiley.

market forces work if you let them.  they do not work as quickly as government mandated programs.  it's about how you choose to live, i guess.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2007, 08:56:58 AM »

I see those huge Hummers driving around town here.  There is no practical purpose for such a vehicle in the city.  It is simply a means for some people to say "look how much money I have"


A rancher in Colorado has a need for such a vehicle, not someone in the city.
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« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2007, 09:34:24 AM »

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A rancher in Colorado has a need for such a vehicle, not someone in the city.


very true.  i feel the same way about these dingbat women in their SUVs.  still....do you want the government mandating who can and can not drive what?  i sure don't.
 
 
 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2007, 05:23:44 PM »

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A rancher in Colorado has a need for such a vehicle, not someone in the city.


very true.  i feel the same way about these dingbat women in their SUVs.  still....do you want the government mandating who can and can not drive what?  i sure don't.
 
 
 


No way Kathyp.  The further the government stays out of my way, the better off I am!  It is impossible to legislate morality or common sense!  It's a real dilemma.  Society evolves slowly from the perspective of a single person, we're only here for a short time.  But if you look back over the last 100 years, we have come a LONG way.
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If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.
  - Robert X. Cringely
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