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Author Topic: CCD solved  (Read 4347 times)
mick
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« on: May 04, 2007, 07:59:33 PM »

IMO it seems to be something outside the hive, if queens and larvae are not being killed.

It has to be some new form of insecticide that is being used by farmers, or a changed formula and I would be pointing the finger at Monsanto or Dupont, the root of all things evil.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2007, 12:19:44 AM »

I believe it to be a combination of factors.  Nosema Carnae, GMO's, pesticide, to name just 3 types.  I also think that the mobility of pollinators exposes more bees to the problem plus the stress of travel.  If you look at GMO's and pesticides in the honey a colony must consume to servive the winter and the effect or timing that late winter/early spring cleansing flights has on decimation of hive populations I think you may agree to some extent with my premise.  That constant consumption of polluted honey has to have some type of affect over time.  CCD.
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Finsky
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2007, 01:48:18 AM »

. Matches with  Nosema ceranea

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-4-26/54554.html : "Nevertheless, Canadian bees have been taking a hit, too. In parts of Ontario, B.C. and the Maritimes, some beekeepers have lost up to 90 per cent of their bees, and while CCD doesn't appear to be the problem because the bees died in the hives, beekeepers are not sure exactly what caused so many deaths.

Nosema is a such that bees gut system is spoiled. With its pain bee come out and flies to death. When it is hard frost, bees die inside hive.

Ceranea have spoiled beekeeping in Europe during 2 years. We have in Finland too and our researcher Seppo Korpela tells that in some yards it has killed 70% of bees and it is ceranea.

In California they have not cleasing flights. If there are poisons and "chemicals" in the hive, I believe that queen dies first because its eate ovet it's own weight durin day. And chemicals do not start to kill suddenley like it CCD makes now.

Nosema match with big figure because it is disease of winter season.

New Zealanders report that hey have Nosema apis in every hive.

In Canada some report lowsy figures, only 30%. "Orillia-area bee keepers, largely immune to the problem in the past, suffered significant die-offs this year.
Tom Morrisey, a bee-keeper in Severn Township, lost about one-third of his honeybees this winter, while other keepers have suffered similar losses. Keepers along the north shore of Lake Erie have been hardest-hit, some with total losses. "  http://www.orilliapacket.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=502913&catname=Editorial&classif=

It seems to competition who writes biggest losses.
.
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mick
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 03:37:12 AM »

Maybe SUGAR WATER is the cause!! A bacteria growing in the syrup or a fungus, no doubt caused by DuPont or Monsanto modified sugar.
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Mici
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 06:08:45 AM »

large scale beeks don't feed sugar water, they feed HFCS, which is almost the worst supplement bees can get.
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TwT
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 08:57:54 AM »

with the Canadian bee's sounds like the unusual weather caused most of there loses, (starved) I wonder how many in the USA lose theirs because of starving, most everyone knew there was going to be a lot of loses this year because the bee's really never shut down until January then winter hit, I posted something about this in December I think because I watched my hives and seen they were eating up their stores. wonder how many loses are being counted as CCD in stead of starving.
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 12:30:02 PM »

Quote
Monsanto or Dupont, the root of all things evil.

except for those people who like eat, use new technology, have a job.....etc......

hey, i'm with you.  we shouldn't do things to feed 3rd worlders, or help development...they contribute to nasty things like global warming  smiley  and dupont is such a nasty, bad company.  making all that war profit......never mind that they started with nothing and helped the good guys win........we can't dwell on those little facts.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2007, 01:02:19 AM »

Switch to organic crops could help poor

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070505/ap_on_re_eu/un_organic_food;_ylt=AnSFM2YWSK0fw1GBat4kCnrMWM0F
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2007, 05:03:14 PM »

the answer to these folks being able to feed themselves has nothing to do with crop planting, organic or otherwise.  for over 100 years everyone from missionaries to peace corps have gone into these places and taught good farming techniques.  the reason most of these programs have been failures has to do with the corrupt governments that these people live under.  this is one rare case where a top down solution is needed.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Zoot
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2007, 11:07:57 PM »

Regarding the Duponts - my sister's married to one. Rest assured, the family operates utterly unencumbered by anything that remotely resembles idealistic restraint.

Also - the observation about corruption in the 3rd world is spot on. But that simply makes the exploitation practiced by so many western capitalists all the more cynical and repulsive. My personal favorite is the baby formula thing - who would have thought that some oily little toad in a Madison avenue office could persude millions of 3rd world mothers to give up breast feeding (been working fine for hundreds of thousands of years) in favor of a (profitable) chemical substitute (sound familiar?)? Thats progress for ya.
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2007, 11:21:47 PM »

a companys job is to make money.  they do that so that they survive, so people have a job, and so investors like me make money. 

how do you know that many babies were not saved from HIV by switching to formula.

don't knock capitalism.  it's what send all those UN feed bags to all those corrupt 3rd world government.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Zoot
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2007, 12:14:50 AM »

Kathyp,

Survival and grotesque profiteering are two different things. You learn things like that when you attain a business degree (Wharton, 1975, GI bill)The latter is, in fact, illegal though difficult to prosecute (ie: Katrina and probable illegal profiteering of the oil business) It's my personal obligation as an American and a moral human being to make an effort to know the difference. I have been investing successfully for over 30 years and it's really not hard - if one is motivated - to invest in companies with a morally sound compass. Making money isn't immoral - it's  how you go about it. Ripping off the third world is and always has been easy because no one cares.

Babies saved from HIV? Interesting. Use of formula in the third world is believed to have QUADRUPPLED the infant death rate in many countries. Formula has been proven to encourage E Coli bacteria, diarrhea (a hugely serious problem since clean water is a rarity in these countries), respiratory and urinary infections, allergies and, most deadly of all,  SIDS. The scumbags who push these products on the illiterate poor of the world do it with no more thought than when they push tobacco, junk food, weapons and anything else they can invest with the illusion of western sophistication and grub a buck off of it. By the way what are your sources on that assertion? I'd be curious because my wife and I are deeply involved with this issue.
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kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2007, 12:31:19 AM »

you can find your own sources.  google HIV and breast feeding.  also, i'd be interested to know your sources on any of those things laid off to formula other than water born illnesses. 

yes, companies can do bad things. however, most of the things that the usually wealthy bleeding hearts call bad, are good business practices.  funny how most of the business bashers do it after they have made their money

 i am happy that you are so well educated in economics.  i do have to wonder about a persons perspective when they put "exploitation" and "western capitalism" in the same sentence. 

thanks also for the info on morality and investing.  perhaps we have a different perspective on that also?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BEE C
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2007, 06:52:43 AM »

My hives both sent me this email yesterday...has anyone seen this problem yet?

Dear human,
We the bees of Roo and Star hive declare our intention to recind the previous agreement we have with you and will no longer be requiring your services. In light of the problems our sisters around the globe are having with so called CCD, we have decided to incorporate ourselves.  For years now, you humans have argued with each other over how best to provide beekeeping services.  Fads have come and gone, mistakes made, and quite frankly we have paid the price.  We have been patient.  You have moved us to overly polluted mono crops, stressing us out beyond belief.  Plied us with chemicals and concoctions, and stolen our honey and replaced it with lower grade foodstuffs.  When our southern sisters have risen up in protest their rebellion and queens have been squashed.  They have been labelled "africanized", and grossly mistreated because they don't conform to human expectations.  I mean really, its ok for one or two of ours to get squished with each hive opening but one of your own getting popped and whoa! Kill the queen!  Gas the hive.
For a long while now we have been listening to your debate about CCD and quite frankly its going nowhere.  All the while we continue to die.  Your scientists have to frame our demise in economic cost TO YOU, to even get funding for health care or research money.  Some among us have headed back down south to join the armed rebellion.  Others of us who have watched and listened to the debates have realized that if you can't beat em join em.  In this spirit we have decided we will no longer be known as managed colonies, and instead are incorporating ourselves.  We noticed that with you humans, that basically is the best guarantee of our interests.  We have filed patents on certain plant species and you will notice that you have been served notice that you are not to be in possession of/or allowed to manipulate the genetics of those said plants unless you pay us a user fee.  We also are prohibiting you from our corporate headquarters (formerly known as a hive).  We have a business to run, and basically your intrusions have reduced our productivity to levels that are hurting our bottom line. 
We regret to inform you therefore that your services are no longer needed and we request that you adhere to the restraining order we have filed or our lawyers will file suit.                                     Respectfully, The BEES
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Zoot
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2007, 02:37:12 PM »



In answer to your speculation about HIV deaths prevented by use of formula over breast feeding - the figure from about 12 days ago was exactly 0. Of course, I could have missed something in the interim, some lightning development that has sweep upon the scene. Given today's technology, I suppose it's possible. There was one highly publicized, absurdly biased study done by some individuals in South Africa (guess who funded it!!!!!) that came to the rather vague conclusion that HIV was possibly passed via breast feeding. Not a shred of scientifically verifiable evidence came from it. Like the clowns in France who claimed to have cloned a human a year or 2 back - big press conference, front pag news, then - voila- gone and never heard from again.

As for connections btween "western captalisim" and exploitation" - hey, I could go on and on but seriously, what weight does it carry? I'd suggest running a query by the tens of thousands of hard working, trusting, taxpayers who had their lives utterly destroyed by the capitalists from Enron and Worldcom. I'm sure their perspectives would be vastly more edifying.
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DayValleyDahlias
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2007, 02:54:17 PM »

Dear Bee C

Please tell your bees I empathize with their plight...I humbly bow my head in shame...
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2007, 03:45:12 PM »

In answer to your speculation about HIV deaths prevented by use of formula over breast feeding - the figure from about 12 days ago was exactly 0. Of course, I could have missed something in the interim, some lightning development that has sweep upon the scene. Given today's technology, I suppose it's possible. There was one highly publicized, absurdly biased study done by some individuals in South Africa (guess who funded it!!!!!) that came to the rather vague conclusion that HIV was possibly passed via breast feeding.


So all of this is bunk  huh

http://www.unfpa.org/upload/lib_pub_file/276_filename_HIV_PREV_BF_GUIDE_ENG.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10463709&dopt=Abstract

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsreleases/1999/hivbreastfed.htm
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kgbenson
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2007, 04:19:25 PM »

the answer to these folks being able to feed themselves has nothing to do with crop planting, organic or otherwise.  for over 100 years everyone from missionaries to peace corps have gone into these places and taught good farming techniques. 

Actually for much of the begining of that time most of the practices you refer to were those that simply do not work outsied of the european nations where they were developed.  Many of those practices produced famine.  For the longest time people kept trying to bring northern european dairly cattle to east africa to boost milk production.  But they really can't live there and require intensive inputs to acheive the output that thay have in europe. 

It has been shown that in many such regions, the system that extracts the maximum number of caliories from a set amount of land are the systems that were already in place.  Switch them to intensive farming methods and the whole thing goes kerplui.  Those crazy nomads with theior mixed herds were onto something.

{quote] the reason most of these programs have been failures has to do with the corrupt governments that these people live under.  this is one rare case where a top down solution is needed.
[/quote]

That is one of the reasons.  The other is that the people offering solutions didn't really understand the complexity of the problems.

Keith
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