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Author Topic: Who believes the wild west theory  (Read 2701 times)
Jerrymac
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« on: May 01, 2007, 10:43:08 PM »

So who thinks we will start having shoot outs at high noon.


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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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AllanJ
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2007, 06:48:11 AM »

I think that most of the discussions on the subject, people are missing a vital point.  That being that not everyone who will be carrying a gun is a middle class professional with gun training and with the ability to think through a situation quickly, logically and sensible.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2007, 07:46:17 AM »

I think that most of the discussions on the subject, people are missing a vital point.  That being that not everyone who will be carrying a gun is a middle class professional with gun training and with the ability to think through a situation quickly, logically and sensible.
So that means we should disarm everyone, right?

I don't think so.
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- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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AllanJ
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2007, 05:03:57 PM »

I think that most of the discussions on the subject, people are missing a vital point.  That being that not everyone who will be carrying a gun is a middle class professional with gun training and with the ability to think through a situation quickly, logically and sensible.
So that means we should disarm everyone, right?

I don't think so.

You'll notice, if you read my post again,  that I did not say or even suggest that.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2007, 06:10:06 PM »

Being one of those people who pack; I advocate the 2nd ammendment right to carry.  Being a retired police officer I was trained how and when to make the dealy decision--I had to make it 3 times, each time I decided not to shoot. 

I think the right to carry should exist, but that training and skill should be a part of the requirement.  Nothing in the 2nd ammendment prohibits education in handling of firearms.  This is where the focus needs to be not banning guns.  Enforce the gun laws we have for crimes committed using a gun and felons and the mentally ill not being allowed to own.  For everybody else it should be education, education, and practice.
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kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2007, 06:11:01 PM »

Quote
That being that not everyone who will be carrying a gun is a middle class professional with gun training and with the ability to think through a situation quickly, logically and sensible.


you are correct.  the bad guys would fall into that category.  

if you are pinned under a desk while a wing nut kid shoots up your classroom, how wrong can you go by pulling out your gun and taking him out?  i do not know anyone who has a legal carry permit who is not comfortable with their weapon.  if i were in a mall or school, and a shooting went down, i'd rather be surrounded by people with CC permits and weapons than hide in a corner and hope that the next shot does not find me.

if you don't want to carry, don't do it.  just don't keep the rest of us from doing it.  we may be your best bet of survival someday.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllanJ
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2007, 06:55:25 PM »

I don't have an issue with people owning or carrying guns in the US. My point is in regards to other non criminals. I can see it now, busy mall, someone pulls a gun, everyone pulls a gun and the next thing will be some mass shootout with all the innocent civilians blasting away at each other whilst the original criminal walks away ..  then, new tv show.. amazing mall shootouts..
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reinbeau
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2007, 06:57:09 PM »

I think that most of the discussions on the subject, people are missing a vital point.  That being that not everyone who will be carrying a gun is a middle class professional with gun training and with the ability to think through a situation quickly, logically and sensible.
So that means we should disarm everyone, right?

I don't think so.

You'll notice, if you read my post again,  that I did not say or even suggest that.
Sorry, but that's usually where the conversation goes after statements like that.  Of course not everyone is a middle class professional with gun training.  Some are blue collar workers with gun training, some are stay at home moms with gun training, some are young urban professionals with gun training....you get the point.  Is there something wrong with a trucker packing?  I don't think so. 
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- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2007, 07:03:59 PM »

I can see it now, busy mall, someone pulls a gun, everyone pulls a gun and the next thing will be some mass shootout with all the innocent civilians blasting away at each other whilst the original criminal walks away ..  then, new tv show.. amazing mall shootouts..

It's called thinning the herd.  shocked

First of all if you was the bad guy and you knew.....I said "KNEW"..... there were other people carrying guns would you pull yours out to do harm?
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Jack T.
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2007, 10:28:21 PM »

I'm also one who carries concealed on a daily basis.  When someone asks if I am carrying, my typical response is "I'm not naked, am I?"

The "Wild West" wasn't that wild.  People tended to be more careful of their actions when they knew others are carrying firearms.

Will accidents happen?  Sure.  Will the occasional bad apple make the rest of us look bad?  Sure.  But just one of us could have saved *many* lives in VaTech.

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2007, 11:03:59 PM »

Jack T.

I see this is your first post. Did I coax you out?
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

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     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
Jack T.
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2007, 07:04:16 AM »

 Smiley

Just got my first bees about a week ago. . .I've been reading BeeMasters like crazy for the past month. . .but yeah, guns are my hot-button issue.

I don't know beans about bees (yet), but guns are a whole different story.   Smiley
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MarkR
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2007, 07:21:31 AM »

It's called thinning the herd.  shocked


My wife hits me when I say things like that.   grin

Seriously, though, the kind of bad guy like we saw at Tech, probably wouldn't be stopped by knowing that people were armed.  He sure wouldn't have done the damage, but I'm thinking he would have tried.  But then, there's a big line between crazy and plain old criminal.

Mark
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2007, 08:52:04 AM »

I know that this is against the grain here but to me there needs to be a better way to control who has access to guns. The VA Tech tragedy was carried out by a known mentally disturbed individual.
I also think most of these murders could have been avoided by better decision making by the leadership at Tech.
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Jack T.
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2007, 08:58:25 AM »

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A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly. Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. “I’m sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly’s actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus.” Roanoke Times, 31 January, 2007

That kind of decision making?
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MarkR
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2007, 09:00:08 AM »

Randy,

I don't disagree with you, but I think it would be better to actually enforce the laws that exist rather than create more legislation.

As far as what the administration at Tech could have done. .. well, hind sight is always 20/20 isn't it?  It's easy for us to say what should have been done.  It's a lot less easy in the middle of a situation.  Yeah, they probably should have handled it differently.  We know that now.  I think, given what the Blacksburg community is like, it's the last thing anyone should have or would have expected.  It was shocking enough to think that there was a shooting in a dorm, why would they think it was so much bigger?

Mark
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2007, 09:24:20 AM »

i don't think arming college students, given their general immaturity and irresponsible attitudes, would be very wise.
and the hindsight is 20/20 phrase is a cop out. gee...lets stop being angry at what goes on and just try to start feeling good again. GO HOKIES!!! ahhhh....thats better.
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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2007, 10:04:57 AM »

Quote
i don't think arming college students, given their general immaturity and irresponsible attitudes, would be very wise.

yet at 17, we can send our young people to war?  maybe we need to stop pampering our kids so that they are not immature little SOBs at 18?

we might also consider locking up those with mental illness as we used to do.  this not only protects the general population, but cuts down on continued breeding of those with genetic mental illness.  it's less messy than Jerrymacs 'thinning', but costs more.

make weapons handling classes available to kids in school.  we teach all kinds of useless CR.  why not teach them something they may be able to use.  reading, writing, arithmetic, and the proper use and care of the .45.

make me president.....i can fix it.......... cool
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
randydrivesabus
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2007, 10:31:21 AM »

i don't think these days are the same as the old days....and i don't think our american young people should be sent to war at the whim of misinformed politicians. but i think this is a different (but related) issue.
I think children are being made to grow up faster than ever (think of both parents working/daycare/latchkey kids) to the detriment of society. i don't think our kids are pampered. i think they are being asked to grow up sooner than they ever were with more challenges than previous generations.
ok...back to my syrup making. hungry bees await.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2007, 10:39:03 AM »

I think children are being made to grow up faster than ever (think of both parents working/daycare/latchkey kids) to the detriment of society. i don't think our kids are pampered. i think they are being asked to grow up sooner than they ever were with more challenges than previous generations.


And then there are these parents,

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070503/cm_csm/ehelicopter;_ylt=AlCc5C16cilUQBi44xRzTaPMWM0F
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
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