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Author Topic: Adding second Brood box????????????????????  (Read 8076 times)
Lechwe
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Location: Holt, Michigan


« on: June 15, 2004, 08:37:21 AM »

Ok, I hive a package on May 8. I was last in the hive about 10 days ago and htere were bees starting to hatch out with large amounts that should have been hatching since then. At that time they had 6 frames completely drwan and the 7th was over half drawn with #8 just getting started. 9 and 10 had not been touched at that point. I was planning on going into the hive tomorrow but I may have to wait until Friday because of weather.

My question is this. When I add the second box do I just put it right on top and not mess with anything or do you guys switch a frame or two of foundation with a frame or two of drawn comb from the bottom to get them to move up and start working there? I don't want them to ignore teh new foundation that would be in the bottom.

Any thoughts.


Thanks
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asleitch
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2004, 09:14:21 AM »

I put on a super, with foundation before they had finished drawing out the foundation in the brood box - they imeddiately switched to drawing out foundation in the super, thereby restricting space for the queen to lay lower down. I was told by several much more experineced beekeepers I should have let them finish drawing out the brood box before adding another box.
Adam
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2004, 01:01:32 PM »

I've had that experience too - where I added a super once they had about 7 frames done. They did what was said above - moved on up and started on the new frames and left the undone ones below. They go back to it after awhile though with no problems. It's better to put on a super when they're close to finishing the last one, rather than LEAVE it alone. You take a risk of them getting a little crowded if the weather gets bad and you can't get in the hive to add the other super. A small risk, but still. Only thing I found, was that last year in September I had added another (third) super, and they totally ignored it. I think it was just because they were sort of done for the year. That was my first hive, started at the end of June last year.

Beth
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Lechwe
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2004, 08:31:07 PM »

I was looking at the weather and decided to go down and insect my bees today because I was not sure I would be able to for the next several days. I took my second brod box with me just incase they were ready for it. Good thing I did. The hive was filled with bees. It may be my impression but it really looked like there were 3 times the number of bees there were 9 days ago. Last time I was there 2 frames had no bees on them and 1 had just a couple dozen, 1 more had only one side with many bees. Today every frame was covered with bees and every frame but the last 2 were completely drawn out. The last 2 were very close to being drawn. They had also taken the entire gallon of syrup water. The last couple weeks they had only been taking about have in the same amount of time.

I think things are really going to start happening now. They were really working, I may get some honey from this hive yet this year.

Of course I forgot to take my smoker with me and it was in the evening so I didn't want to get deep into the hive and get them stirred up. I peeked down between the frames and watched for a few minutes and left them a new gallon of syrup and closed things back up and let them be. No stings so O I would say a very productive trip.


It's getting fun now.

Thanks for listening to me ramble. Just a little excited now that I can see progress.
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2004, 11:25:47 PM »

Oh I know.... it does get pretty fun when you see some progress. Smiley I wish my weak hive would do a "boom" in growth like that. Still waiting. I put in a queen and some brood from another hive in there about the end of April (6-7 weeks ago). I know the brood in the frames I'd placed in there hatched. And I can see that frames the queen had laid in are about ready to hatch. Plus I see some very young larvea. But the hive hardly seems much stronger. Maybe in another week after this batch hatches.

You might get some honey this year. To try and guess how much honey you'll have to leave for them (or how many frames of honey). Each frame, full of honey, will be approximately 5 lbs of honey. I don't know how much you need for your area though. I'm lucky here. I was told to leave about 30 lbs, and it turned out they only used maybe 10 lbs. If that even. I'll still leave the 30 or more again this winter though just incase it's a cold year.

Good luck with those girls, and it's good to hear things are going well.
Beth
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Finman
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2004, 12:50:46 AM »

Quote from: Lechwe


My question is this. When I add the second box do I just put it right on top and not mess with anything or do you guys switch a frame or two of

Any thoughts.


In Finland climate is colder than you have. Nights are at summer about 8-12C.  When I put the second box at spring, it is usually minus degrees at night and 10-15 C at day.

When I was in England in May 1996, it was there same situation. I scrabbed every morning frost from car's window when I started to drive. And it was 7C at day and turnip rape was at full blossom. Same weather as in Finland.

When you put second super upp, bees must warm  at once  100% more space. If you put it down, bees can take it into use without big broblems with warming upp new space.  Warm air stays upp. You can put extra space down without harms.

Surely bees goes upp and the queen lays  eggs, but I have seen many times that larvas are taken away from lover box when bees are not able to warm lowest broods.  

If queen is able to lay eggs enough, it goes to lower box without difficulties.  When I put third box, I can change the former box and again put the new one lowest. The next ones I put uppermost.

When I take my hives out pastures for turnip ripe, I often put extra box to lowest and of course plenty of new space to the topp. It is for sure that space will be enoug to honey flow. Many hives store during 3 weeks 100 kg honey.

3 full brood frames give one Langstroth box full of bees. If you have 6 frames full of brood, soon you have 2 boxes bees.
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Lechwe
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2004, 08:00:09 AM »

Beth,

Her in Michigan we usually need at least one full brood box of honey for them. Our weather is really screwy most years. We almost always get a thaw near in the middle to end of February and then things turn nasty again for a few weeks. This is the first hive I have had in about 20 years so I don't remember everything but hopefully one full box will be good.
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Lechwe
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2004, 08:04:06 AM »

Beth,

Her in Michigan we usually need at least one full brood box of honey for them. Our weather is really screwy most years. We almost always get a thaw near in the middle to end of February and then things turn nasty again for a few weeks. This is the first hive I have had in about 20 years so I don't remember everything but hopefully one full box will be good.
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TEN
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2004, 05:10:19 PM »

In Illinois I have never kept bees utilizing a single hivebody.  Most single hivebodies that I have tried to winter over have starved in the spring because of insufficient reserves.

In regards to adding another hivebody I make sure that everything is 90% full before adding another hivebody.  Bees have a tendency to work from the inside of the hivebody toward the outside and from the bottom up.  

From this there are two fundamental principles that can be learned.  

1.) To force completion of hivebody and to keep your bees (busily) working- Always rotate your empty frames toward the center of the hivebody, placing the empty frames between two that are completely drawn out (rotating only when that can be done).  This forces/causes the bees to realize that they still have a great deal to do and pushes them.

2.) If your adding a hivebody to an existing single hivebody never move the empty frames to the bottom outside (that's if your feel the need to do so).  They will not get the attention that the frames above them will get.  In the spring when initiating first contact with your bees rotate the frames of each hive body from the inside out and interchange the location of the hivebodies (only if their more empty than the ones on the inside or on top).

Rotating your frames is a great way to relieve the bees feeling that the hive is congested or full and allows you to ensure that all of the frames get filled.  I have had bees start making queen cells with the outside of the bottom hivebody outside frame left undrawn and not filled with honey!  As a beekeeper ensure that all frames and drawn and filled before adding more (which is critical when setting aside reserves for the winter).

Supers are no different.  This is doubtless a time intensive management technique but the results speak for themselves.  A special note for beginners-  Never let more than 3 days pass before checking on the progress of your bees during the honeyflow.  Things can change dramatically in 3 days!  During the honeyflow it you open your bees up and everything is filled to 70% bring a super (or another hivebody) with you.

Hope this helps.
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Finman
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2004, 11:29:32 PM »

Quote from: TEN



In Illinois I have never kept bees utilizing a single hivebody.  Most single hivebodies that I have tried to winter over have starved in the spring because of insufficient reserves..


First I must see, where is Illionois. It is at the level like Spain or Italy 42 parallel degrees .

At that level, I think, hives are too hot to winter in one super. When I have very big colony and it is pressured into one super, it runs too hot and use too much sugar. We give 20 kg sugar for winter per colony. Our bee winter is from Septemper to half of May.

If we have bees and queens from south,  like from New Seland, they are not able to winter in our weather.

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Quote

2.) If your adding a hivebody to an existing single hivebody never move the empty frames to the bottom outside .


I make this opposite way

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As a beekeeper ensure that all frames and drawn and filled before adding more (which is critical when setting aside reserves for the winter)..


 use to keep the lowes super quite empty and I can put the third upper most. Lowest empty is for expansion reserve. Thei can put honey flow in that reserve space.




I have very different circumstancies than Illionois and most of Finnish beekeepers nurse like TEN says, but.....
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TEN
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2004, 01:16:59 AM »

Central Illinois is where I reside.  Our temperatures run anywhere from 32 degrees Fahrenheit  to 20 degrees below zero.  Our average temperatures is probabley somewhere around 25 degrees F.  Honey reserves are critical for winter survival.
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