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Offline Greg Peck

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Would you use CCD frames
« on: April 25, 2007, 08:53:07 PM »
The local bee keeper who I bought my one hive from last year told me today that his remaining hives died. All the classic signs for CCD. He is getting out of bee keeping and told me that he would sell me however many of his hives for 25.00 each. This would be 2 deep HB and all other hive components. he said that there are frames of honey in the hives still. Would it be a good idea to buy some of these hives and put my packages in them or should I just start the new packages in virgin hives? I am just thinking that they will be able to start making brood sooner with honey and pollen already there as well as drawn out comb.

Any insight would be appreciated   
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Offline TwT

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 09:09:03 PM »
I would buy the hives but put new wax in the frames and maybe even new frames, wax can trap and hold all kinds of unwanted things... you might want to wash the hive bodies but might not have to since nobody know what CCD is...
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Offline Understudy

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 09:55:57 PM »
No, I would not. Not unless I heat treated or irradiated the boxes and frames. Since there are so many unknowns with CCD I would be inclined not to.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Offline Greg Peck

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 11:07:13 PM »
Thanks for the replies. The one thing that is strange about this situation is that I bought a hive from this guy in September of last year. This spring all of his died but mine is still doing ok. I am half wondering if he lost some of them over the winter, as he is not able to take care of them any more he did not notice until now. He said that I would have to clean the dead bees out which could mean a few dead bees or a whole colony that died due to freezing or what ever used to kill hives over the winter before CCD came about. I only got to talk to him for a few minutes so I don't know details yet.

Brendhan you said you would heat treat the boxes. How do you do that?

If I were to get some of the hives and use the frames would it be ok to use them to get things going then start taking the old ones out and putting new frames in? Would that get me a better build up and more honey or in the long run would it be the same as just giving them new frames right off the bat.

And one more question. He has supers with drawn out frames that he wants to sell as well. would you be ok with using the super frames as they are not on the hive all the time like the HB frames would be?

Thanks
Greg
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Offline Understudy

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 11:17:17 PM »
Propane torch.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible

Offline Greg Peck

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 11:44:25 PM »
Just go over every inside and scorch it a little?
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Offline Understudy

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 11:51:31 PM »
Yes, exactly.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible

Offline Dane Bramage

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2007, 12:18:13 AM »
propane torch.. the poor man's autoclave  ;)

$25 for hives with 2 10-frame deep brood chambers, all frames, etc., included?  I'd be all over that provided the wood wasn't decomposing.  Quite the bargain (I'm assuming he'd also have covers, etc., etc.,).

I'd clean down to the bare wood (frames included) as much as possible then thoroughly disinfect (w/alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, ionic nano-colloidal silver soln - no toxic residue, but you could use bleach too & thoroughly rinse) - maybe finish with a good spray coat of essential oils (lemongrass, etc.,).  No pathogens should survive but there still might be (limited) traces of pesticides in the porous wood.  I would think it would be minimal and pose little if any risk... but I still might be inclined to have a "guinea pig" colony test one hive before using more.

Offline TwT

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2007, 07:09:42 AM »
if you want to heat your stuff that's ok but this is not AFB, who knows heating the wood and if CCD is caused by a chemical, what would the reaction be by heating it, might get rid of it then might make it worst, but its your choice..I still think if its pesticides it will be in the honey and wax, not so much on the wood unless hives were sprayed but im not saying that it couldn't be on the wood, heck still nobody is for sure what is causing it...
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Offline Robo

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2007, 10:02:20 AM »
He said that I would have to clean the dead bees out which could mean a few dead bees or a whole colony.

I'd take a look at them and judge for yourself.  CCD is the latest and greatest buzz word.  It was a bad winter for beekeepers in the NorthEast and a lot are freely jumping on the CCD bandwagon.   Every hive I lost this winter had a small patch of brood in it and I know Michael has expressed the same with his losses. 

I wouldn't necessarily overlook the possibility of CCD,  but I would be very skeptical.
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Offline jimmyo

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 08:44:31 AM »
I'd buy them.  Then cut out the wax and soak the frames and boxes and all in clorox water.  Clorox kills everything.  Most of my equipment is old used stuff.  Now, even my new stuff is used. I'm not going to fear untill I find out what we've got.
Jim

Offline Greg Peck

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2007, 05:48:13 PM »
I went and picked up two of the hives today. After checking them out I am pretty confident that these bees died early in the winter as there is still a lot of honey in them. 3 of the boxes I got weigh near 70 pounds. There was no entrance reducers in which let mice in to the hives. I chased out 2 mice from two hives. There was a lot of bee pieces on the bottom board (like a good 3/4 to 1 inch of chewed up bees) I think the mice ate them which means that they were in the hive not off dieing somewhere else like with the CCD reports.

So now I have 30 frames that are pretty much full of honey and 10 that are basically empty. As I am not really worried about CCD or other disease, my question would be how to use them. I cant put a packages into these boxes as they will have no where to raise brood. Should I put like 2 of the empty frames in a new box along with 3 or 4 frames of honey and the rest of the frames blank foundation. If that is a good idea how should I lay them out in the hive. IE honey on the outside foundation closer to the center then the drawn frame in the center?

Thanks all for you help. For any one from Pa or near by this beekeeper is selling these hives for 25.00 each. The ones with the mice damage would need new foundation but it is still a steal the frames along would cost 40.00.

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Offline Dane Bramage

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2007, 06:55:19 PM »
If you're going to use the frames as is, you may want to at least freeze them prior (as minimal precaution).

Offline Greg Peck

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2007, 11:01:16 PM »
I am not trying to get out of the work I am just wondering if the bees had been dead for a while as I believe they had been, then these hives would have froze several times over the winter as we had some very cold weather here recently. Would that have been sufficient or should I think about friezing them again? There is some mold on a few frames. Is there anything I should do to those frames or will the bees take care of it.
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Offline Dane Bramage

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2007, 01:06:44 AM »
If toxic chemicals aren't an issue then it's the potential biological contamination that may have happened since the winter freeze with which I would be concerned.  Pathogens, mold, mildew, bacteria, insects (mites), dander/droppings/etc., from the mice, etc., etc., since the last thaw.  Freezing them again prior to installation is probably advisable.

Offline TwT

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Re: Would you use CCD frames
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2007, 01:14:37 PM »
guest if this article is correct I would have been wrong on using them..... and if this is correct the cell phone theory is a bunch of bull, it has to be something in the hive like pesticides....

http://home.ezezine.com/1636/1636-2007.04.26.08.42.archive.html
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic