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Author Topic: Many bees found with this condition... what is it?  (Read 2550 times)
Tropic
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« on: April 24, 2007, 11:36:59 PM »

I have found a number of these young bees at the front of the hive with these wing damages and was wondering what the problem could be. The bees in the hive also appear reluctant to leave and forage... though there is a lot of stored honey, pollen and the brood stocked well. Am sort of at a loss as to what is really happening in this hive.

http://secondfast.com/bees//albums/userpics/thumb_Bee_problem_1.JPG[/img]

http://secondfast.com/bees//albums/userpics/thumb_Bee_Problem_2.JPG[/img]

http://secondfast.com/bees//albums/userpics/thumb_Bee_Problem_3.JPG[/img]
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thegolfpsycho
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 12:10:38 AM »

DWV.  You got a mite problem
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the kid
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 12:18:32 AM »

the bad wings sound like you have mites .. take a mite count..   if your running sbb with a tray ,, put some  pam spray on parchment paper and put it on the tray ... wait 2 or 3 days and remove and count the red mites ... for each mite you get on the count you have 100 in the hive

4 mites = 400 mites in the hives
2 mites = 200 mites in the hive
 if your not running sbb you will have to but a screen an sticky board
the kid
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Cindi
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 09:54:59 AM »

Tropic.  You have a varroa destructor mite problem for sure.  That was one of my biggest mistakes with beekeeping last year.  I was ignorant to the symptoms of this mite issue.

I had read in studies that worker bees die basically because their wings wear out from foraging.  They can no longer fly.

I saw many bees around the hives on the ground that did not have wings, or deformed wings.  I thought that this was older bees with worn out wings, just like I had read.

I found out much later (and it was too late), that this was a perfect example of the destruction of the varroa mite.  You must now look after your hives in a big way.  Search this forum for topics on ways to combat the mite.

I will explain simply the life of the varroa mite.  It is important to understand this life cycle.

The varroa mite enters the cell just before the cell is capped and lays eggs (between 2 to 7 eggs).  The first egg laid is normally not fertilized and develops into a male, the rest are female.    The eggs lie hidden in the brood food.  When the cell is capped the eggs of the mite hatch and begin to feed on the larvae.  This causes the larvae to either die in the cell or emerge with deformed wings.  Death occurs with the emerging bees not long after emergence.  The mites mature and mate in the cell and the fertile female emerges when the bee emerges from the cell.  The immature females and smaller males do not survive long after the cell is vacated.

If you are seeing these deformed wing bees, you know that the varroa is inside and may be high in numbers.  Listen to advice, follow through with your extermination plans, very important.

I lost 10 hives last year.  I know it was from swarming and varroa mite overloads, from the weakened hives from swarming.  Keep you hives strong and healthy.  Have a wonderful day, good health to all.  Cindi
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Tropic
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 10:12:14 AM »

Thank you amigos for you input and I am sure that the root cause of this problem is the varroa mite. Now ... the next situation is knowing what is the safest way to get rid of or control these mites without resulting in a major chemical warfare program. Cindi... what did you do? ... I have to act quickly. There is a lot of information out there that is sometimes conflicting and I am sure that some method is used by most with some success. I am only having this one mite infection in an apiary that is actually on my farm... the other apiaries are not having any problem at all. These are mostly AHB hives and tend to be more resistant or tolerant to various hive problems.
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pdmattox
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 11:31:52 AM »

Unless you see a whole lot of the the deformed wing virus in your hives you can effectively treat this with the 2 rounds of apigaurd. 
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tillie
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 12:10:30 PM »

There are many, many posts on this forum about how to do a powdered sugar shake - use the search feature. 

You do it with a flour sifter over the brood box at the beginning or end of the day when most bees are in the hive.  Wait about 10 days and do it again.  Wait 10 more days and do it again.  In other words, 3 times over a 30 day period to take care of the mites who emerge over that time.  It won't kill the mites but will get the bees to clean themselves, thus cleaning the mites off....you do have to have a screened bottom board as well.

Linda T in Atlanta
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2007, 12:38:26 PM »

Another sign that helps you indicate you have a mite problem is bees w/ shorter and stubbier abdomens than normal. In addition to deformed wings.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2007, 01:59:05 PM »

They look like old worn out wings to me.
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Tropic
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2007, 05:04:38 PM »

So I got busy in the woodworking shop and produced some Screen Bottom Boards, powdered the bee frames and bees with confectioner's sugar and will leave the hive now for 10 days before checking to see if there is any progress. This I will do three times. I will also be checking the bottom board for signs of varroa mite activity. I am going to try all sorts of interesting methods for controlling the varroa mite infection and am not giving up on this hive. Thank you all again for your valuable input and I feel much more secure knowing what the problem is and finding a suitable control. This is an neverending activity and new joys and terrors can crop up at any time.
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Cindi
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2007, 05:20:33 PM »

Tropic, good action.  Let us know how the mite extermination works.  Your sticky board test at the end of the 30 day sugar shake will be interesting to hear results of.  You have acted quickly, time now is on your side, excellent.  Have a wonderful day, best of good health to us all.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2007, 10:37:39 PM »

I just read an article in the may ABJ from Randy Oliver that really does a good job of explaining the best application and result of the sugar shake.  Basically it says that one sugar shake a month will keep the mite level even.  One every week will make the mite population decrease proportionately for the length of time the applicatiions are made.  The more applications the less mites. 
This reinforces my contention of doing a good shake between flows and then a series of 4 beginning Sept 1st so that they go into the winter with little of no mite load.
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Finsky
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2007, 11:43:25 PM »

.
You live in country where bees have allways brood. It makes varroa control laborours.

Here is quite easy way to clean hive from mites. You may do it with aid of oxalic acud or without.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html

Now first move the original hive to another place  10 feet.
Put onto original siten a new hive, 2 food combs and queen.
Half of bees fly to old site during 3 days.


A)
1) You may now spray bees with oxalic acid solution frame by frame and you get rid off mites. You may use other stuff too like formic acid or thymol oil. You have one week time to kill mites which are on bees. The destroy is over 95%.

OA is effective and leave no trace in honey. Thymol gives awfull aroma to honey.

2) You may catch mites with larva comb. When hive has not larvae in capping age, you give a frame adult larvae and mites go into finished larvaes.

B)

3) You have the hive with brood and mites.  Again move it 10 feet and give new hivebox to old site. Clean mites away from bees. Hive has queen cells and give such one to new hive.  When you have killed mites, joint that colony to the queen right part A.

4) It is better to handle mites with chemicals in the rest hive that they dont spread to nabour hives. Let workers hatch and again clean bees and join them into queen right hive.






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Tropic
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2007, 09:32:56 AM »

Thank you Finsky for your valuable suggestions for dealing with these varroa mites. With regard to the oxalic acid spraying of the bees and frames, what concentration would be acceptable?
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Finsky
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2007, 11:22:51 AM »

.
Procedure:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalicspray.html

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalic.html

http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/spring_treatment_oxalic_acid.htm

Bee brave. It goes fine.
Keep drone sectors in couple of frames and so you are able to notice the miteload from drone larvae.





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Finsky
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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2007, 11:47:32 AM »

.
This seems valuable too 2004 from Switcherland

Bee tolerance of different winter Varroa treatments
http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&q=Bee+tolerance+of+different+winter+Varroa+treatments&meta=

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Cindi
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2007, 12:04:39 AM »

Finsky, nice to see you trying to assist beekeepers.  Your advice should be listened to, it stands the test of time.  Beautiful days, good health to all.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Finsky
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2007, 01:10:33 AM »

.
I cannot stand that this forum abandon newest and best methods to handle varroa or what ever.
It has nothing to do if you want to earn side incomes or just keep bees alive on backyard or you play stone age beekeeping.

So they handled early prophets in old Egypt

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sean
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2007, 03:25:56 PM »

Thank you Finsky for your valuable suggestions for dealing with these varroa mites. With regard to the oxalic acid spraying of the bees and frames, what concentration would be acceptable?

goodday tropic, Tell me can you get oxalic acid there? i am in jamaicaand it's not available here. I am actually dealing with a mite problem right now. i have been using apistan. 
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