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Author Topic: Foundation-less deeps a bad idea?  (Read 349 times)
Jow4040
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« on: October 27, 2014, 09:10:24 PM »

I've been doing a bot of reading regarding foundation-less deep frames and have been getting mixed messages. Some say the comb will collapse other say it is fine.

Does anyone run foundation-less deep frames? Do you wire the frames or not? What have your experiences been with using them? I plan on doing crush and strain extracting if that makes a difference.

I'm keen to hear your thoughts.

Joe.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 09:25:02 PM »

Jow,
If you are going to do crush and strain or cut comb, foundationless deeps should work well. Check out Michael Bushes site, he talks about foundationless.
Jim
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"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain
Jow4040
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 09:30:48 PM »

Thanks for the reply Jim. I've had a look at Michael's site but he mainly uses mediums. Will deeps work as well? Some people talk about comb collapsing in deeps. Not sure if this is to do with the frame size or just poor handling? Thoughts?
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 09:41:14 PM »

Thanks for the reply Jim. I've had a look at Michael's site but he mainly uses mediums. Will deeps work as well? Some people talk about comb collapsing in deeps. Not sure if this is to do with the frame size or just poor handling? Thoughts?
They should be fine. Just bee careful how you handle them until they are connected to the bottom of the frame.
Jim
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"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain
OldMech
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 09:49:46 PM »

Deeps will work. Use fishing string instead of wire as cross support. At least two strands. That way if the hive gets hot and the comb soft it will not collapse under the weight of honey or brood.  25 lb line the bees have chewed in half, the 50 lb trilene big game line they have never separated.
   the fishing line can be cut and pulled out easier than wire, and or left in place when crushing and straining, the filter will catch it, and it is cheaper than wire, easier to cut, and it will not stab you when mushing up the combs.
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hjon71
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 10:41:45 PM »

Just to be clear, are you talking about brood frames or frames just for honey?
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Jow4040
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 11:32:17 PM »

Just to be clear, are you talking about brood frames or frames just for honey?

Both, I'd ultimately like to be using an unlimited brood box and be able to move brood and honey frames to any part of the hive and or swap them with other hives.

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OldMech
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 11:51:57 PM »

Wow, you really want to lift a DEEP full of honey?
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Cullz
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 04:15:23 AM »

Joe,

I am using foundationless deeps for everything, with an unlimited broodnest.

I have lots of wired frames so I leave the wire on these. I have also put lots of frames in without any wire though, and I haven't had any serious trouble yet with collapsing, I haven't decided yet, but I think my long term plan will be to wire all the new ones as they go in. Fishing line sounds like a good idea.

I put "empty" frames in the brood nest with no starter strips and they go fine, but starter strips definitely make things go smoother, especially in the honey supers.



I just cut them out of thin plywood and glue them in.

And yeah, deeps full of honey are heavy.

Culley
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Jow4040
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 05:03:30 AM »

Thanks for the info Culley, its exactly what i was after and as a bonus you are also from Australia so have some understanding of the heat we get here.

I have a big spool of wire so i will wire some frames to compliment the paddle pop sticks i've used as guides and see how it goes.

Thanks again,

Joe
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amun-ra
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 06:02:23 AM »

Im in townsville we get a bit warm sometimes I have deep frames but with wire for support and half heights with no wire as well I have used both in my extractor with no probs I do the half heights cause u can fit two in each side of the extractor or just use it for cut comb when required
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Rurification
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 08:01:21 AM »

I've only had bees for a few year, but I have a few foundationless deeps.   I don't run wire or anything.   I've never had a problem with collapsing comb and my hives are in full sun.   Once they're drawn, they seem to be fine for brood or honey. 
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 08:20:43 AM »

>Does anyone run foundation-less deep frames?

I have run some Dadant deeps (11 1/4" frames) and some deeps.  I am not running any at the present, but they worked ok if you don't open them on a hot day in a heavy flow.  With the Dadant deeps I put one horizontal support that was a 1/16" copper coated welding rod.   I've never wired the deeps or mediums.  I have had comb collapse if I messed with it on a hot day in a heavy flow.  Some of the heavy uncapped combs shimmer and shake like jello... which is why I put the welding rod on the Dadant deep frames.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/DadantDeep1.jpg
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Jow4040
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 02:56:28 AM »

Thanks for all the replies guys. It looks like deeps shouldn't be a problem especially if they are wired. I'll keep an eye on the weight as they fill up with honey this season.

Joe.
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