Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Just starting  (Read 415 times)

Offline emrude

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Female
Just starting
« on: February 08, 2015, 10:53:36 PM »
Hello,
I'm getting a couple of hives.  I want to regress to small bees.  I want 8-frame, medium bodies and would start with frames of Honey Super Cell(still looking for a place to buy it.) It looks like the only bees I can get are nucs in deep frames.  Can I catch the queen(yea I know that's not easy) and put her in a bottom medium frame with HSC, put a queen excluder over top and bottom of lower bottom and then put a deep box with frames from nuc above the queen? The queen would bee trapped in the medium box. After the brood hatch above, I could get rid of deep box. If this is a stupid idea let me know.  I just would like to do the regression in one step and can't get package bees sent to me. 
Any other ideas?

I am east of St. Louis in Illinois.

Thanks,
Marion

Offline rookie2531

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 309
Re: Just starting
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 05:14:01 AM »
I would recommend that you get a medium nuc box that fits over the deep and let them draw comb in it and keep the deep going until you have mediums drawn. She will lay up there when that happens and then exclude her from the deep and after all brood has emerged from that deep, then remove it if you want, but that brood is ever so valuable and not having any while you wait for more comb, I would not do.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14274
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Just starting
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2015, 10:46:06 AM »
>I am east of St. Louis in Illinois.

I used to live east of St. Louis in Bond county.

I would not put the queen in a box that lacks brood.  The bees often abandon her if you do.  I would put the five deep frames in an eight frame deep box and fill the rest out with mediums.  Or make a 3" shim (cut the top 3" off of a five frame nuc or build the equivalent) and put it on top of an eight frame medium and put the deeps in the shim hanging down into the medium and fill the rest of the box with mediums.  Then once you have some brood on mediums you can do as you just said and put the queen with the brood over or under an excluder.  The other solution IF they are on wax foundation, is to cut out one or two of the brood combs on the nuc and tie them into medium frames and then put the queen on those with the excluder between those and the rest of the deep frames.  Or just cutout the whole thing if it's wax and if you can.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline emrude

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Female
Re: Just starting
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2015, 06:58:24 PM »
Thanks for answers.  Mike, I live in Madison County.  At this point I am thinking of getting a deep box.  I would like to put in HSC in medium size around the deep frames.  If I need to put blocks under frames the medium space to fill in box so bee's don't have room to build comb, i will and once the bees start brood in HSC frames I can start to replace LC brood comb with more HSC until all large cell brood frame is gone.  I think it would be faster to start with package bees, but I haven't found anyplace that sells them around here. Still looking.

Marion

Online OldMech

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
  • Gender: Male
    • The Outyard
Re: Just starting
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2015, 09:43:30 PM »
Thanks for answers.  Mike, I live in Madison County.  At this point I am thinking of getting a deep box.  I would like to put in HSC in medium size around the deep frames.  If I need to put blocks under frames the medium space to fill in box so bee's don't have room to build comb, i will and once the bees start brood in HSC frames I can start to replace LC brood comb with more HSC until all large cell brood frame is gone.  I think it would be faster to start with package bees, but I haven't found anyplace that sells them around here. Still looking.

Marion


 Yes, the easiest way would be to use a deep box, and put mediums over it.. NEXT spring, the bees will be in the top medium. Reverse the boxes, and just DONT put the deep back on, add another medium for them.
   i often buy or inherit bees from beekeepers giving it up. i run ALL ten frame mediums, and that is how I slowly weed out the deep boxes I buy or end up with from others..   Once it gets rotated out, you can run it across the table saw and turn it into a medium as well. This will also give you a shim to use for winter feeding.  No waste, no loss, and no panic or rush.
   Wishing you the best of luck!
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline gww

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: Just starting
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2015, 10:06:47 PM »
I don't know if this helps.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/for/4851410457.html

I am guessing decanter illinois

http://decatur.craigslist.org/grd/4883848359.html

Good luck
gww

Offline emrude

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Female
Re: Just starting
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2015, 06:46:01 PM »
It looks like I am set up with two packages of bees.  I never would have thought of Craig's list.  I have one package coming mid april and one mid may.
I have all of my wood wares, except frames.  I do have HSC to start with.  I thought I would start with five HCS closed up in the middle of the box and put a front queen excluder to keep queen in so they don't get mad about HSC and leave me.  I also thought that once I see the brood and new bees I could start putting foundationless frames in.  Or should I wait until the lower box is filled with HSC and start filling with foundationless when they go up to second box. That way I could put HSC in upper body and put frames in lower box. I only want to use HSC to get small bees.  Once I have small bees, I would like to let them build what they want.

Offline rookie2531

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 309
Re: Just starting
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2015, 07:30:46 AM »
I would not leave out frames even if they have foundation in the middle. Just starting out, they may start comb where you don't want it. Queen excluder at entrance sounds like a good idea, but if they super cede her, let them and take it off so she can mate when time is close for her to emerge. You can make some syrup and mix HBH and spray the foundation, it will get them to accept it quicker, IMO. Also feed, feed, feed, they build comb fast when they have syrup, don't let them run empty until you have what you want, in my case it was until October. Good luck.

Offline emrude

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Female
Re: Just starting
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2015, 01:17:48 PM »
rookie
thanks for your help.  I don't understand "You can make some syrup and mix HBH and spray the foundation."  I don't know what HBH is. Also I don't have foundation.  I have plastic cells that are 4.9mm.  I was going to put five of these frames in the middle of the body and put in temporary boards that will reduce the size of the body to five frames.  Once the bees accept the Honey Super cell, I want to add foundationless frames one or two at a time, moving the temporary boards until I have 8 frames, so they can drawn their own comb and make drone comb if they want.  Do you think I need to use 4.9 foundation instead?
I am planning to feed them as long as it takes.  Right now I have wooden top feeder, but I've been thinking about using ziplocks to keep the mold down.
I have joined local bee club so I can get some help as needed through the summer.
I am just trying to learn as much as I can about small bees and regression planning.

Marion

Offline Maggiesdad

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Gender: Male
Re: Just starting
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2015, 01:41:42 PM »

Online OldMech

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
  • Gender: Male
    • The Outyard
Re: Just starting
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2015, 09:30:52 PM »
  your sheet of 4.9 mm cells IS foundation.. foundation is what they start their comb on, it is the foundation of their comb..
  If you HAVE the small cell foundation, go ahead and use it, if you dont, giving them foundation - less will eventually lead to the smaller or natural size.
   When you give them 4.9 mm foundation, they will use it, and when you give them foundation-less they will revert to building the cells they WANT to build.. in the center of the comb it may well be smaller than 4.9 mm, as small as 4.6 mm, but as you move toward the edges the cell sizes will get larger. THe bees will match their cells.   Using foundation - less doesnt require regression first.  when allowed to build what they want, they will slowly regress themselves.
   Yes, I use foundation-less.  I like not having to pay for foundation, but starting out, it is often best to place foundation among the empty frames to keep the bees in line. if they do build cross comb, it is limited to the two closest pieces of foundation. letting them draw foundation, and then placing an empty foundation - less comb between two pieces of drawn foundation usually results in a very nicely drawn foundation - less frame with less fuss.
   Hope that helps!

www.outyard.weebly.com
   Scott
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline Foxhound

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 43
  • Gender: Male
    • Foxhound Bee Company
Re: Just starting
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2015, 11:48:34 PM »
I'll get that question from new beekeepers often.

I usually tell them, to buy the deep nuc and try to get rid of your deep frames the follow spring. If you leave the deep box on the bottom of the hive, the bees will typically move out of it and towards the boxes on the top. At that point, you could remove the deep box and replace it with a medium box.

Glad your doing mediums. Thats what I use, and I'm happy about it (most of the time).

Offline emrude

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Female
Re: Just starting
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 09:53:43 PM »
Thanks for all of the advice.  I have most of my beekeeping supplies.  I am now looking at snow covered yard and planning for spring. 
I can't wait for my girls to get here.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14274
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Just starting
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2015, 08:53:10 AM »
>I'm getting a couple of hives.  I want to regress to small bees.  I want 8-frame, medium bodies and would start with frames of Honey Super Cell(still looking for a place to buy it.)

Honey Super Cell only comes in deeps.  You have to cut it down.  Although some places may cut it down for you.
http://www.simpsonsbeesupply.com/
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline emrude

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Female
Re: Just starting
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2015, 11:03:15 PM »
I did buy from Mr. Simpson.  They must be making them in medium now.  I got the green ones so I can see the eggs.  I am thinking of putting in five frames and putting in boards to size down the hive. Once the queen starts laying and the new bees come out I can add an empty frame or two, then another body.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14274
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Just starting
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2015, 08:26:49 AM »
>They must be making them in medium now.

Simpson just cuts them down for you.  If you buy the deeps and cut them down yourself you could cut the scraps to fit in a frame and get more HSC... I bought long screws and was going to put a 3/8" thick top bar on and screw it down into two of the scraps to make a medium out of them...
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline emrude

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Female
Re: Just starting
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2015, 03:39:52 PM »
Oh, I could have done that.  I had thought about cutting a medium down and letting them build drone cell, but I decided that putting empty frames would let them build what they want.  I'm happy, now just waiting for spring.  :smile: