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Author Topic: Dave Hackenberg spills his theory on CCD  (Read 3214 times)
Understudy
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« on: April 08, 2007, 11:30:42 PM »

I said I would only publish stuff on CCD that may be interesting or relevant. This could qualify as both.

Dave Hackenburg is not some run of the mill hack beekeeper. And when it comes to CCD next to Dennis vanEngelsdorp, you will probably see his name a come up quite a bit on CCD issues.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/08/Floridian/One_beekeeper_s_chaos.shtml

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Cindi
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 07:31:52 AM »

Brendhan, you made a good choice, the story was informative and kept you reading.  Well written.  Have a wonderful day, Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Dane Bramage
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 12:41:19 PM »

Quote
They treat their hives - an insect colony, after all - with insecticides.

Quote
They truck their bees around the country...

Quote
Hackenberg began sanitizing empty bee boxes with low doses of radiation.

Quote
"I see things the average person doesn't even notice," he said.

Quote
He has seen careless applications of pesticides on crops leave the ground beneath his hives blanketed with dead bees.

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"When you go through a bee yard like this one, seeing nothing but dead stuff, it's depressing."

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So, stunning as the recent collapse has been, it is not a complete surprise.

insecticides, pesticides, radiation... (in addition to everything else) yielding unhealthy hives ~ yeah I would think it would be about as surprising as getting mad cow disease from feeding cows bone meal.  rolleyes
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 12:52:02 PM »


Quote
Hackenberg began sanitizing empty bee boxes with low doses of radiation.
insecticides, pesticides, radiation... (in addition to everything else) yielding unhealthy hives ~ yeah I would think it would be about as surprising as getting mad cow disease from feeding cows bone meal.  rolleyes

Actually the radiation is one of the few things that may be helpful. That may sound completely contrary to a healthy enviroment but the radiation treatment is actually not as dramatic as it sounds. This may be shocking to many but I am not opposed to the radiation treatment if all else has failed. The levels are very low. The bees are not on the frames when it is done. It is less than a dental xray.

And the radiation treatment of hives is a relatively new thing. Most beekeepers don't do it and haven't really heard of it.

I can understand Dave's concern and I don't want to blow him off outright. However I would be willing to bet that radiation is not the issue because it is not common amongst all the beekeepers suffering from CCD.


Sincerely,
Brendhan

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Dane Bramage
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 01:06:54 PM »

Actually the radiation is one of the few things that may be helpful. That may sound completely contrary to a healthy enviroment but the radiation treatment is actually not as dramatic as it sounds. This may be shocking to many but I am not opposed to the radiation treatment if all else has failed. The levels are very low. The bees are not on the frames when it is done. It is less than a dental xray.

Yes, radiation would seem counter-intuitive to a healthy environment though I can understand how it would appeal to the prevailing germophobic philosophy with it's emphasis on sterility. 

I can understand Dave's concern and I don't want to blow him off outright. However I would be willing to bet that radiation is not the issue because it is not common amongst all the beekeepers suffering from CCD.

Truth can come from most anywhere and he may indeed be on to something with the Neonicotinoids.  When the bottom line is effected ($) proponents of industrial agriculture can become quite motivated ~ I just don't mistake Mr. Hackenberg's motives as any long-term concern for the bees or the environment... I also suspect bees in a natural (as possible) environment not subject to any of his practices would not be suffering as are those under his "care".

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Forget about beekeepers as the gentle guardians of a natural process.
Big time!
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Cindi
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 08:51:43 AM »

Many of the commercial (and hobbiest) beekeepers take their EMPTY bee equipment to a local company that irradiates their equipment.  It is expensive, but it rids their equipment of any disease that may be present and they swear by the results.  Have a wonderful day, good health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Dane Bramage
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 12:55:51 PM »

Many of the commercial (and hobbiest) beekeepers take their EMPTY bee equipment to a local company that irradiates their equipment.  It is expensive, but it rids their equipment of any disease that may be present and they swear by the results. 


I would imagine that there are those that swear by the results of feeding GMO HFCS, anti-biotics, and on and on, until, at some point.. things go terribly awry.  Taken one at a time, perhaps each of these is tolerable by the bees.  That could be the case with a little residual radiation µR.  It surely isn't natural.  And that is my general point and contention with Mr. Hackenberg's techniques.  Beekeepers such as he are to bees what conventional industrial agriculture is to cows, pigs, chickens ~> The Meatrix.  The antithesis of sustainable practices.  The Beetrix?   shockedafro
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Cindi
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2007, 12:19:51 AM »

Irradiation is not natural.  Think about it.  Best of this day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2007, 12:44:07 AM »

Irradition isn't natural. And I don't think it should be done frequently to a hive over and over. It should be done as a last resort. But I have no problem with it being done under those circumstances. I would prefer it was placed in a highly heated chamber until it was sterile. Just like an autoclave. The problem is cleaning up all that melted wax afterward. Also the wood would warp and bend into unusable shapes.

I don't much like chemicals or pesticides either but I understand them. And when you livelyhood is being wiped out by some worm or beetle or other nastiness. I understand the desire to make sure you have a sustained crop to sell so you can earn a living. So while it is nice for me as a hobbiest, I understand commerical farmers and beekeepers who do use them. Now with that being said. I would rather have irradited food or hives vs the leftover chemical residues. I would prefer that it really had nothing done to it. But I choose my evils. I believe irradition is far safer than say milk with BGH in it.
Fortunatly I can buy milk that has neither. I can buy local produce but that doesn't mean it's organic or chemical free. I can grow my own veggies but not enough to sustain me and I can't grow year round.

Meanwhile I look at the dogs that got sick because of chemicals on wheat. So for me irradation is my lesser evil.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2007, 12:54:35 AM »

Brendhan, irradiation is not natural, for sure.  Yes, commercial beekeepers (and some hobbiests use it).  It is right enough for them, safeguards many things for sure.

I do not know enough about this context to comment further.  So, I will let this go by the wayside.  Have a wonderful night, great day, and good health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Dane Bramage
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2007, 12:17:02 PM »

I thought this article (Lusby's comments, emphasized below) were appropriate - a good contrast to Hackenberg.

Quote
'Killer bees' seem resistant to disorder
By Dan Sorenson
arizona daily star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 03.30.2007



Although experts are stumped about what's causing the colony-collapse disorder die-off in U.S. commercial beehives, there is some speculation that Arizona's famed Africanized — or "killer bee" — wild-bee population is somehow immune.
Dee Lusby's bees are doing fine. Actually, they're doing better than that, says the owner of Lusby Apiaries & Arizona Rangeland Honey of Arivaca.
Lusby has 900 hives of "free range" organic bees spread out over ranches from Benson to Sasabe.
"I've only lost one or two, maybe three (hives) out of every 30 or 40 hives," said Lusby.
She's not surprised by her good fortune or the modern commercial beekeepers' hive-mortality rates.
Lusby has a hunch the disorder is the result of a number of factors, including the use of pesticides, bee-growth formulas, artificial food supplements, breeding for size, inbreeding — all or some of which may make them susceptible to mites, viruses and fungi — and maybe even some strange side effects from feeding on genetically modified crops.
Breeding for size is a major factor, Lusby believes. She says the commercial honeybees are now too large to feed on some of the very plants that historically may have given them immunity to diseases and parasites. They're simply too big to get into those plant's flowers, she says.
And the man who takes the bees out of Bisbee, Reed "The Killer Bee Guy" Booth, says he's not surprised Africanized bees are thriving.
Booth started out with beekeeping to make retail honey and honey mustard, and branched out to do bee removals after the Africanized bees invaded Arizona in the early 1990s. He says he gets one to five eradication calls a day from around Cochise County during warm weather.
"It's going to be a banner year for bees," he says.
"The Africanized bees are somewhat more resistant" than the European honeybees, he says of the aggressive, slightly smaller wild bees that produce bumper crops of honey and bad press. "But they're somewhat resistant to anything, probably including nuclear war."
Booth says he switched from European bees to wild Africanized bees not long after they spread through Arizona.
"I used to have two sets of hives," says Booth. "But I got tired of going down and either finding my European bees Africanized or dead. I gave up, so, Killer Bee Honey."
But Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman, research leader of the USDA's Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in Tucson, is not so quick to crown the wildly enthusiastic Africanized honeybees as superior.
"We don't push the African populations like we do Europeans," DeGrandi-Hoffman said of the carefully genetically controlled honeybees used by commercial beekeepers for field work.
"We're putting them on trucks and taking them halfway across the country. We're stressing them in almost a feedlot situation, feeding them protein supplements. We're stressing them pretty good. And that doesn't happen with Africans."
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dlmarti
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2007, 12:26:55 PM »


Quote
Hackenberg began sanitizing empty bee boxes with low doses of radiation.
insecticides, pesticides, radiation... (in addition to everything else) yielding unhealthy hives ~ yeah I would think it would be about as surprising as getting mad cow disease from feeding cows bone meal.  rolleyes

Actually the radiation is one of the few things that may be helpful. That may sound completely contrary to a healthy enviroment but the radiation treatment is actually not as dramatic as it sounds. This may be shocking to many but I am not opposed to the radiation treatment if all else has failed. The levels are very low. The bees are not on the frames when it is done. It is less than a dental xray.

And the radiation treatment of hives is a relatively new thing. Most beekeepers don't do it and haven't really heard of it.

I can understand Dave's concern and I don't want to blow him off outright. However I would be willing to bet that radiation is not the issue because it is not common amongst all the beekeepers suffering from CCD.

Due to Bees having a much shorter life span than humans,  radiation has a much lower chance of effecting them.
Radiation is all around us, its nothing unatural.
Iradiating comb, and wood frames and boxes, probably has no effect.  The residual is next to nothing.

Possibly if you irradiated the Queen, you might have some effect.
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