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Author Topic: Genetics question from a newbee to an almost as newbee  (Read 1012 times)

Offline qa33010

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Genetics question from a newbee to an almost as newbee
« on: June 04, 2007, 01:15:06 AM »
    I was asked a question that I'm not sure I gave the right answer.  The question I was asked concerned a queen that was not a good layer from the get go.  Why would I want to let the hive make a new queen if she comes from genetics bad enough to cause bad laying patterns?

    My answer was that the queen genetics are only half the equation and the drone influence is just as important.  Also the 'bad' queen may have been improperly bred, not tested, possible newly bred or injured when caught/marked/transported.  In these cases genetics are not the cause.  When asked what I would do I said I would keep the bad queen and place her in a nucleus hive with brood and honey and attached bees.  I would let the hive make a new queen from eggs/young brood.  If I was ordering a new queen I would put her in a nuc with a frame of brood and some supplies to see if she was a good layer before swapping her out with the 'bad' queen.  

Did I answer okay?  I don't have ready access to a local mentor which is what you all have become.  I don't have a lot of hives so I can spend a little more time doing this.  What did I miss?  What other options are there?  I told him that I would not kill the old queen right away in case things didn't work out.

Everyone said it couldn't be done. But he with a chuckle replied, "I won't be one to say it is so, until I give it a try."  So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin.  If he had a worry he hid it and he started to sing as he tackled that thing that couldn't be done, and he did it.  (unknown)

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Genetics question from a newbee to an almost as newbee
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2007, 07:36:11 AM »
Queens always get blamed for the amount of brood in a hive, but it's seldom their fault.  Usually they are not laying a lot of brood because there are not enough workers to take care of it and the workers are limiting her production.
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Offline Cindi

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Re: Genetics question from a newbee to an almost as newbee
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2007, 10:57:27 AM »
Michael hit it right on the nail in my eyes too.  The bees know what they are doing.  If they do not have the numbers to take care of their babies, they will not allow the queen to lay more than they can deal with, aren't they smart?  Have the wonderful day.  Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Genetics question from a newbee to an almost as newbee
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2007, 07:59:59 PM »
A queens ability to lay can be hindered by not enough bees to cover the frames (per MB), not enough cells available (honey bound), or not enough drawn comb.  Spottiness of brood (shotgun pattern) can be attributed to being honey bound or hygenic behavior (removing substandard or parasite infected young).  In the case of being honey bound, it can be corrected by removing a frame from one or both sides of the brood chamber and letting the bees drawn new comb that the queen can use to lay in.  The other issues are cured with time or population increase. 

When a shotgun brood pattern is noted it is best to assess whether or not the problem is a failing queen or hygenic behavior.  In the case of a failing queen the brood pattern will get gradually smaller and you'll note an increasing amount of drone brood mix in with the worker brood.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Offline qa33010

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Re: Genetics question from a newbee to an almost as newbee
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2007, 01:13:03 AM »
    Thanks for the heads up.  I appreciate it.  Honestly, I read about honey bound but never really gave it a thought.  We just discussed number of workers available.  Hygenics is Gooooood.   You guys ROCK.

Thanks a lot.
Everyone said it couldn't be done. But he with a chuckle replied, "I won't be one to say it is so, until I give it a try."  So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin.  If he had a worry he hid it and he started to sing as he tackled that thing that couldn't be done, and he did it.  (unknown)

Offline Mici

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Re: Genetics question from a newbee to an almost as newbee
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2007, 04:22:25 AM »
honey flow is a tricky thing isn't it?
it stimulates the queen to lay-since the whole hive feels good about the abundance of food, so, they'll increase!
but if the flow is really strong, the bees fill up the hive to the last bit! so...it has to be just right in the spring, so we get just the right build up. it's obviusly a double-edged knife!

i have a really failing queen, and she's being supercede, but the genetics poor i'd say, so i'll swap her with a young queen from another hive. and this time it is the queen, the hive is...doing ok so there is surelly enough bees, but she just can't get the number of eggs per day up. and the best part is, i got this queen from a breeder and she was bred last year :shock:

 

anything