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Author Topic: To Americans Serving in Iraq  (Read 8942 times)
reinbeau
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« on: April 06, 2007, 10:20:33 AM »

This is great
!  I wish this would get broader viewing, Youtube isn't widespread enough for this message.
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2007, 12:03:47 PM »

It is indeed great! Unfortunately our media will never report anything like this. In my job I have been fortunate to meet a number of returning veterans, many that have lost legs, arms, sight, etc. You would think these folks would be bitter and totally against being in Iraq. Not so! I have not met one that didn't have positive stories about what they were doing for the Iraqi people. They have built schools, hospitals, communities and more. These individuals were upset because they couldn't go back to finish their job.  Many are starting public speaking tours to try to educate the American people, most of whom get ALL of what they believe from the TV. However, you will never hear that on the nightly news.

I wish those idiot hollywood stars would realize they may have a gift to act or sing but that doesn't make them any smarter on world issues. And members of congress that visit heads of state that are agaist our troops discust me.

I can't thank the men and women of the armed services community enough for what they do every day so we can enjoy the quality of life we have.
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2007, 07:06:04 PM »

that was very good.  i sent it out to about 10 people.  it will get around.  it had 500 viewings when i checked.

there is a great deal of discouragement among those of us who are older and serve(ed).  we had hoped that the country learned a lesson after Vietnam.  we had hoped that sometime from the 70's to now the country would have realized that we were under attack by and ever strengthening enemy.  we had hoped that the military and the mission would be supported. 

instead, we have a congress repeating the mistakes of Vietnam, a country that thinks we have no enemey...or if we do...we should be able to fix whatever bad thing we have done to those people so that they will love us, and we have a country that says "we support the troops but not the mission".  sorry, that doesn't work.  you can not separate man and mission.

of the 8 of us through 3 generations who have served, 1 has retired, 1 will retire ASAP, 1 will retire within the next couple of years, 2 have left the military, 1 is leaving next year, 1 is trying to decide, and 1..the young ensign...is to green to be thinking about it yet smiley.

we are not leaving because we want to.  we all loved the military and we all served because as an immigrant family, we knew what we owed this country.  we are leaving because the country has left us.  it is sad, but how can we ask our families to sacrifice for people who think we serve because we can do nothing else?  for people who do not even think they need a military?  They wear their security like a mink coat and do not know or care how that security was bought.

it is to much, and we will not ask our next generation to make the same sacrifices.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
reinbeau
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2007, 09:34:06 PM »

But Kathy, not everyone believes the crap their fed by the media.  I think there are quite a few who don't.  Most everyone I talk with certainly doesn't!  Then again I tend to stay in conservative circles (and I live in the wrong state to be so conservative, let me tell you).  Of course your family has served and served well, no one should ask for more, but don't abandon us now (I mean that rhetorically).  If the good people do that we are truly doomed.  Cry
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2007, 09:41:47 PM »

i live in the wrong state too smiley  i call it the SR of O for 'socialist republic of oregon'.  we burn our soldiers in effigy on the streets here.

there will always be young people who will serve.  i am afraid that soon we truly will have those who can do nothing else.  others will find that the cost is to high.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2007, 10:06:18 PM »

all well said.navy vet.,father served,brother served,son retired.
bob
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2007, 01:09:16 AM »

' "we support the troops but not the mission" sorry, that doesn't work.  you can not separate man and mission.'

So what is the answer to people who do not agree with the mission?  Should they blindly support the mission and continue to watch as the number of dead and injuried continue to climb for a pointless war that can not be won?  When is enough?  Now? 2009? 2015?  At what point do you say, 'enough is enough' ?
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2007, 07:44:39 AM »

although i agree with many things he says, i actually don't agree with the whole war thingy, sorry.
by the way, i've always wanted to know about your military branches. ok like any country you have airborne(airforce) land army(army), naval(navy) but part of which branch are marines? are they like advanced infantry men, who no matter where the assault takes place go in first, are they the front line of any branch or what? free lancers? it really bugs me
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reinbeau
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2007, 11:18:52 AM »

' "we support the troops but not the mission" sorry, that doesn't work.  you can not separate man and mission.'

So what is the answer to people who do not agree with the mission?  Should they blindly support the mission and continue to watch as the number of dead and injuried continue to climb for a pointless war that can not be won?  When is enough?  Now? 2009? 2015?  At what point do you say, 'enough is enough' ?
Supporting the troops means supporting their mission.  They are there to win, not to question why.  We don't hear enough from the men and women who believe in what they're doing (their voices are out there, but the lamestream media don't like what they're saying.  You have to listen to other sources to hear them).  I've heard quite a few voice their utter frustration at the lack of good information we get here at home.   I believe them.  I don't believe the naysayers.  This isn't to you, Allan, personally, but I don't believe people who say 'they support the troops' while at the same time blather on about the mission they don't like. 

As for the number of dead and injured, how many died in the other wars we've fought?  While I don't like losing a single soldier, the death rate in this war is pretty low - the Iraqis are losing three to four times more than we are.  I guess as it should be.
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2007, 02:02:47 PM »

' "we support the troops but not the mission" sorry, that doesn't work.  you can not separate man and mission.'

So what is the answer to people who do not agree with the mission?  Should they blindly support the mission and continue to watch as the number of dead and injuried continue to climb for a pointless war that can not be won?  When is enough?  Now? 2009? 2015?  At what point do you say, 'enough is enough' ?
Supporting the troops means supporting their mission.  They are there to win, not to question why. 
No, The citzens are allowed to question the mission and it's objectives and the reasons behind it. They can do that and support the troops. I think men and women who are willing to server are very honorable people. That doesn't mean I want their honor squandered by politicans who would put them in harms way without justification. I do not believe the reasons we went to war in Iraq were well founded.

A soldiers job is very different. The solider is there to follow orders. The military system would break down without the command inferstructure. So that makes a military set up very different.

So since a soldier cannot question why, I will. And I will make sure that politicans who use soldiers and their service improperly are held accountable. Because that is dishonorable.

Quote
We don't hear enough from the men and women who believe in what they're doing (their voices are out there, but the lamestream media don't like what they're saying.  You have to listen to other sources to hear them).  I've heard quite a few voice their utter frustration at the lack of good information we get here at home.   I believe them.  I don't believe the naysayers.  This isn't to you, Allan, personally, but I don't believe people who say 'they support the troops' while at the same time blather on about the mission they don't like. 

As for the number of dead and injured, how many died in the other wars we've fought?  While I don't like losing a single soldier, the death rate in this war is pretty low - the Iraqis are losing three to four times more than we are.  I guess as it should be.

US soldiers killed in Iraq 3351
US soldiers kiled in Afghanistan 382
US soldiers killed in Vietnam 47,378
US soldiers kiled in Korea 54,589
US soldiers killed in WW II 407,300
US soldiers killed in WWI 117,465
Civil War soldiers killed 618,000

So we have to lose how many more soldiers for you to recognize that the war in Iraq might not be as noble as the administration would like you to think it is?

Belief in what you are doing is fine. I want the soliders to believe that serving is a great and noble thing. I want the the citizens to believe in the soldiers enough to make sure that they are used in a proper manner. But that is just me.

Sincerely,
Brendhan



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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2007, 02:30:44 PM »

' "we support the troops but not the mission" sorry, that doesn't work.  you can not separate man and mission.'

Bring it to the door step. Your wife wants to do something, perhaps go to school to learn e-bonics. You think it is a waste of time, but she is going to do it anyway. So even though you don't agree with what she is doing you do wish for her success and you support her.

Does that make sense?
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2007, 06:15:50 PM »

' "we support the troops but not the mission" sorry, that doesn't work.  you can not separate man and mission.'

Bring it to the door step. Your wife wants to do something, perhaps go to school to learn e-bonics. You think it is a waste of time, but she is going to do it anyway. So even though you don't agree with what she is doing you do wish for her success and you support her.

Does that make sense?

If to learn e-bonics we needed to spend 400 plus billion, result in over 3000 military dead, many more thousands injured, half a million or more civilians dead and it was obvious that my wife had zero chance to succeed, then NO, it don't make sense Smiley

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reinbeau
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2007, 06:19:16 PM »

Brendhan says:

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So we have to lose how many more soldiers for you to recognize that the war in Iraq might not be as noble as the administration would like you to think it is?
Please don't say I need to be told by the administration how to think.  As far as I'm concerned there is nothing noble about war.  It is necessary sometimes, but not noble. 
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2007, 07:52:23 PM »

war is a necesity! it's more important than peace! without war NO ONE will EVER appreciate peace! every man(man as in human) should experience war at least for a little while in his life. i'm not saying i want to try it but everyone should and that's a FACT.
maybe war isn't noble, but war does give "noble" a brand new bigger meaning! noble is someone who helps refuges....and so on and so on...
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AllanJ
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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2007, 07:58:01 PM »

Supporting the troops means supporting their mission.  They are there to win, not to question why. 

Anyone who knows the region, the people, the culture, the history.. knew that victory was not possible 4 years ago, just as we know it is not possible today. I think questioning why so many people are being killed is important. Just like I think it is important to continue to question why we are there in the first place and how we ended up in this situation.  Questioning and disagreeing with our government is a fundamental principle of a free people.

I've heard quite a few voice their utter frustration at the lack of good information we get here at home.   I believe them.  I don't believe the naysayers.

What information are you referring to?  It goes without much discussion that the US media is lame and if you want news, you go outside the US. The information I am dismayed about there being a lack of, is the failure of the mission. The bribes, the waste, the innocent civilians lives, the pointless deaths of our military etc..

As for the number of dead and injured, how many died in the other wars we've fought?  While I don't like losing a single soldier, the death rate in this war is pretty low - the Iraqis are losing three to four times more than we are.  I guess as it should be.

The number of dead, and whether it is worth it, is measured against the goal of the mission. 3000 dead in Iraq is 3000 to many.  The problem is that no one has defined what victory is.. When the US finally pulls out, what will we have achieved? Iraq will have more terrorists within the borders than it did in 2001. It will have just as much corruption as it did before 2001, maybe even more. It will be more unstable than it was in 2001.

I think the best way to support our troops is to try and do what we can to bring them home.. and when they do come home, the lack of a true victory will not be because of people who did not support the mission, it will not be because of a dem congress, it will be because victory in the longer term after the initial fall of Saddam, was never possible.



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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2007, 09:32:39 PM »

Brendhan says:

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So we have to lose how many more soldiers for you to recognize that the war in Iraq might not be as noble as the administration would like you to think it is?
Please don't say I need to be told by the administration how to think.  As far as I'm concerned there is nothing noble about war.  It is necessary sometimes, but not noble. 
I do not believe this war with Iraq was necessary.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2008, 01:21:35 PM »

first of all i have to disagree with those who say this war was not necesarry,  i think it should have been unnecessary, we should have finished the job the first time we went in, having said that we are there,  lets make absolutly sure we're done when we leave this time! our people in iraq and afghanistan are volunteers, some of them are sacrificing their lives for our country they have well earned the support of our citizens.  I agree with the vet in the video let us hear how many of the enemy are taken let us have all of the story,  i want to know what we are accomplishing out there.  we will bring them home but lets let them get the job done first!

micci the marines are a branch of our navy,  they are highly trained first assault troops at the presidents call at all times.  the u.s. marine corps can mobilize 50% of its forces anywhere in the world with 24 hours notice.  that is why they are usually the first on the ground in any theater. 

just one old vets comments.
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« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2008, 01:38:32 PM »

don't tell the marines they are a branch of the navy!!   grin

it is not possible to discuss war or the military with civilians.  i gave it up long ago.  it would be nice if there were no more war, but that will never happen. 

here is my advice to the those who wish the US never to go to war:  get rid of the military.  keep a national guard in case we are attacked and disband all the services.  save the money and expand social services or whatever.  if the world goes to hell, it's not our problem.  if we are attacked, we'll just defend ourselves right here.

another old vets opinion.

added comment

i watched 60 min for the first time in years.  they had the guy who spent time interviewing saddam for 7 months.  he said saddam told  him that the wmd had been destroyed and he'd lied about it to keep iran off his back.  this should have been wonderful news for the left and anti-war folks, yet it was not taken up.  never heard a comment about it.  why? 

i was not particularly excited about the prospect of our going to war in iraq.  i wondered if it was something we really needed to be doing.  now that i know more, i am 100% behind it.  if anyone cares, i'll tell them why. 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 06:55:27 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2008, 06:01:28 PM »

I care, Kathy.
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« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2008, 06:35:23 PM »

Me too..
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