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Question: What do you think is the cause of CCD?
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Author Topic: What do you think is the cause of CCD?  (Read 8551 times)
Cindi
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« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2007, 11:59:03 AM »

Eve, yes, there have been some posts regarding this is a repeat of some history.  Can't remember though, but not that long ago.  HAve a beautiful, wonderful day and great health.  Cindi
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« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2007, 12:40:10 PM »

  Some local beeks are talking about hives that were fine a week or so ago that are suddenly empty now. They made it through the winter and seemed strong then a couple weeks later were gone.
  If CCD was pesticide related wouldn't the bees have died over winter when they were restricted to the stores in the hive? At least one yard was in a suburban area with little access to crops, just hay fields and yards.
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« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2007, 01:47:35 PM »

I believe if pesticide is the problem it would be strong enough to kill the bee instantly. Thus the foraging bees would die near the plants causing this.
I'm not going to put it past super gardeners from using industry strength pesticides and herbicides. Also some of the Genetically Modified crops have been made to produce their own pesticides and herbicides naturally. If the plant were producing it in the nectar the bees are feeding off of it would explain why the forager bees are dieing. Few if any make it back to the hive to kill the rest of them off. A lot of GM crops are made to be sternal, maybe someone accidentally taught killing off the pollinater would be a good idea too, or this was a complete accident. I believe one such GM crop was Sunflowers for the seeds. In this case the Sunflower Seeds still grow but may also be producing the Pesticide that's killing the bees. Not to say any of this is correct at all.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2007, 10:18:23 PM »

According to my mentor there was a collapse of this kind shortly after WWII.  There was another in the Mid 60's but I missed that one--too busy serving Uncle Sam.  In persuit of the solution I think an effort should be made to exhume the archives and see if there are any similarities.

Meanwhile, I have to lean towards GMO crops and various pesticides.  The one they banned in France (it makes insects lose their memory so they can't find their way home--but I can't find or remember the the name at the moment) is a good example. 

All that combined with transport in and out of areas the result in exposure to various chemicals seems to be the most promising lead.  It rises the question: What happens when all those chemicals become combined in the hive and the bees consume the mixture?
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« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2007, 08:24:09 PM »

Meanwhile, I have to lean towards GMO crops and various pesticides.  The one they banned in France (it makes insects lose their memory so they can't find their way home--but I can't find or remember the the name at the moment) is a good example. 

+1, that is my leading theory as well.  A study conducted in '2000 by Minh-Ha Pham Delegue on the effects of GM pollen from varieties of canola and soybeans on honeybees in a laboratory setting indicated that, although none of the tested pollens kill adult bees outright, they may shorten their lifespan and cause some behavioral changes, particularly in a loss of their ability to learn and to smell. This may cause foraging bees to "forget" where flowers or even their own hive is located

To that add the fact that even 3 years ago GMO corn in U.S. was 85% of total, some of this corn is genetically modified to produce pesticides (others to withstand pesticides), many commercial beeks feed HFCS from said GM corn + all the pollen from GM corn, soy, etc.,. and... well, it would seem a cause for some serious concern.
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Cindi
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« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2007, 10:40:01 PM »

Right, high fructose corn syrup in my own mind.  I read in many books (probably old, old books, for that matter) that this is not good for the bees.  This was long before the GMO issues.   Many individuals use HFCS because it is less expensive than sugar.  I listen to the thoughts of many old time beekeepers whose books I have read.  I would not ever entertain the thought of using HFCS because of good old-time advice.  My mind is made up, no change here.  Best of the day, and good health. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2007, 02:32:03 PM »

I found this on another site talking about the recent finding of poisons in pet foods and immediately thought about CCD.

---

This is an excerpt from a report by a Veterinarian.

A brief internet search quickly reveals that the widely used insect growth regulator cryomazine is not only made from melamine, but it also breaks down into melamine after ingestion by an animal. Wheat gluten is wheat gluten, fit for human consumption, so the question remains, what was wrong with this gluten that it was only bought for use in pet food?

On April 3 Associated Press named the US importer as ChemNutra of Las Vegas, reporting that the company had recalled 873 tons of wheat gluten that had been shipped to three pet food makers and a single distributor who in turn supplies the pet food industry.

What of the uncounted number of people whose cats and dogs became sick, and even died? Several letters that I have received indicate costs of in the thousands of $ per animal; and what of long-term care costs for animals suffering from chronic kidney disease?

While Congressional hearings are now being called for by grieving pet owners, and class action suits put together, this debacle could have catastrophic consequences not only for conventional agribusiness, of which the pet food industry is a lucrative subsidiary, but also for the agricultural biotechnology industry, with its millions of acres of genetically engineered crops around the world.

I reach this conclusion, until there is evidence to the contrary, for the following reasons:

1. The wheat gluten imported from China was not for human consumption, because, I believe, it had been genetically engineered. The FDA has a wholly cavalier attitude toward feeding animals such ‘frankenfoods’ but places some restrictions when human consumption is involved (yet refuses appropriate food labeling).

2. The ‘rat poison’ aminopterin is used in molecular biology as an anti-metabolite, folate antagonist, and in genetic engineering biotechnology as a genetic marker. This could account for its presence in this imported wheat gluten.

3. The ‘plastic’, ‘wood preservative’, contaminant melamine, the parent chemical for a potent insecticide cyromazine, could well have been manufactured WITHIN the wheat plants themselves as a genetically engineered pesticide. This is much like the Bt. insecticidal poison present in most US commodity crops that go into animal feed.

4. So called ‘overexpression’ can occur when spliced genes that synthesize such chemicals become hyperactive inside the plant and result in potentially toxic plant tissues, lethal not just to meal worms and other crop pests, but to cats, dogs, birds, butterflies and other wildlife; and to their creators. (For details, see my book Killer Foods: What Scientists Do to Make Food Better is Not Always Best. Lyon’s Press, 2004).

How else can one account for samples of pet food containing as much as 6% melamine? It was surely not mixed in such amounts when the wheat gluten was being processed, but rather was already in the wheat, along with the aminopterin genetic marker. My suspicion is that the FDA was aware that the gluten came from genetically engineered wheat that was considered safe for animal consumption.

I could be wrong. But a greater wrong is surely for the pet food industry to use food ingredients and food and beverage industry by-products considered unfit for human consumption; to continue to do business without any adequate government oversight and inspection; and for government to give greater priority to agricultural biotechnology and the patenting of genetically engineered crops and animals, and not to organic, humane, ecologically sound and safe food production.

I believe that there is evidence of gross negligence, not simply on the part of the pet food industry, but by all who are responsible for food quality and safety in the global market that is clearly dysfunctional. The Pet Food Institute should start an emergency fund to compensate all veterinary expenses incurred as a result of this---and any future---mass poisonings of people’s beloved animal companions. Dr. Michael W. Fox
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« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2007, 07:53:48 PM »

I have been a back yard bee keeper since I was 12 years old with my dad. Over the last 32 years I have maintained 3 large hives that my dad and I had taken from the wild, that were always healthy and strong. I have never treated my bees with any chemicals or medications I just let nature take its course.

Last fall 2 of my hives swarmed to a tree branch in the front yard and I was able to recover one of them in a nuke box for a short time until they swarmed off again. I new the bees would not make it through the winter where ever they went to because it was past the last big summer honey flow.

I had noticed for a few weeks before the swarms that the bees were behaving funny just kind of buzzing around without a mission. This spring I inspected my remaining hive with hopes of being able to split and rebuilding my hives but there were no bee’s not even dead ones just spoiled honey.

I have since cleaned and scraped all traces of honey and wax from the hive incase there is some kind of contamination in the wax or honey and I am hoping for a wild swarm as I don’t want to invest in new bees only to lose them.

It appears to me that the bees became disoriented and swarmed from the hive with no chance of servile. Like they were poisoned or drugged. We do not have any commercial crops in the area other than small hay fields that the farmers fertilize with manufactured fertilizer. These fields are the major source of clover honey for my hives. I wonder if it is no a fertilizer problem rather that a pesticide issue.

I have been thinking of setting up a camera outside the entrance of a hive and an inferred camera inside to record there progress but I don’t have a hive to work with. Is any one else out there doing this kind of study with there bees? I think it would be good to start testing the honey and bees at the first sing of abnormal behavior.

Dennis.
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Kirk-o
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« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2007, 08:39:03 PM »

I think you should do what worked for you in the past.Get some Feral bees and put them in your back yard
kirko
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wayne
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« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2007, 11:23:47 PM »

Another report from the UK.

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece

 
from The Independent & The Independent on Sunday
14 April 2007 23:16 Home > News > Environment > Wildlife

Are mobile phones wiping out our bees?

Scientists claim radiation from handsets are to blame for mysterious 'colony collapse' of bees
By Geoffrey Lean and Harriet Shawcross
Published: 15 April 2007

  It seems like the plot of a particularly far-fetched horror film. But some scientists suggest that our love of the mobile phone could cause massive food shortages, as the world's harvests fail.

  They are putting forward the theory that radiation given off by mobile phones and other hi-tech gadgets is a possible answer to one of the more bizarre mysteries ever to happen in the natural world - the abrupt disappearance of the bees that pollinate crops. Late last week, some bee-keepers claimed that the phenomenon - which started in the US, then spread to continental Europe - was beginning to hit Britain as well.

  The theory is that radiation from mobile phones interferes with bees' navigation systems, preventing the famously homeloving species from finding their way back to their hives. Improbable as it may seem, there is now evidence to back this up.

  Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) occurs when a hive's inhabitants suddenly disappear, leaving only queens, eggs and a few immature workers, like so many apian Mary Celestes. The vanished bees are never found, but thought to die singly far from home. The parasites, wildlife and other bees that normally raid the honey and pollen left behind when a colony dies, refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives.

  The alarm was first sounded last autumn, but has now hit half of all American states. The West Coast is thought to have lost 60 per cent of its commercial bee population, with 70 per cent missing on the East Coast.

  CCD has since spread to Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. And last week John Chapple, one of London's biggest bee-keepers, announced that 23 of his 40 hives have been abruptly abandoned.

  Other apiarists have recorded losses in Scotland, Wales and north-west England, but the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs insisted: "There is absolutely no evidence of CCD in the UK."

  The implications of the spread are alarming. Most of the world's crops depend on pollination by bees. Albert Einstein once said that if the bees disappeared, "man would have only four years of life left".

  No one knows why it is happening. Theories involving mites, pesticides, global warming and GM crops have been proposed, but all have drawbacks.

  German research has long shown that bees' behaviour changes near power lines.

   Now a limited study at Landau University has found that bees refuse to return to their hives when mobile phones are placed nearby. Dr Jochen Kuhn, who carried it out, said this could provide a "hint" to a possible cause.

   Dr George Carlo, who headed a massive study by the US government and mobile phone industry of hazards from mobiles in the Nineties, said: "I am convinced the possibility is real."

  The case against handsets

  Evidence of dangers to people from mobile phones is increasing. But proof is still lacking, largely because many of the biggest perils, such as cancer, take decades to show up.

  Most research on cancer has so far proved inconclusive. But an official Finnish study found that people who used the phones for more than 10 years were 40 per cent more likely to get a brain tumour on the same side as they held the handset.

  Equally alarming, blue-chip Swedish research revealed that radiation from mobile phones killed off brain cells, suggesting that today's teenagers could go senile in the prime of their lives.

  Studies in India and the US have raised the possibility that men who use mobile phones heavily have reduced sperm counts. And, more prosaically, doctors have identified the condition of "text thumb", a form of RSI from constant texting.

  Professor Sir William Stewart, who has headed two official inquiries, warned that children under eight should not use mobiles and made a series of safety recommendations, largely ignored by ministers.
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Cindi
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« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2007, 12:16:03 AM »

Eee gads!!!  Now what next.  There are so many wonderful parts of living life like the Omish do, it is pure, clean, and no contamination from cell phones, and certainly no problem with contamination from the new fangled devices.  Gotta wonder how these followers' bees do?  I know they must keep bees and maybe they do not experience any CCD, especially if they do not have neighbours, other than those of their own beliefs.  I highly respect this lifestyle.  Best of this beautiful day, greatest health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2007, 10:36:28 AM »

Has anyone with CCD found a note saying "So long, and thanks for all the HFCS?" 

 grin
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2007, 10:50:22 AM »

Has anyone with CCD found a note saying "So long, and thanks for all the HFCS?" 

 grin

So the bees have run off to Milliways, the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

 grin

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Cindi
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« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2007, 11:17:57 AM »

HFCS.   That acronym keeps surfacing, it must be alien speach.  Have a wonderful, beautiful day, good health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2007, 11:03:50 PM »

Cindi,

Our part of Md (western Montgomery county) has one of the biggest "dead" areas in the state with regards to cell phone, tv, etc. Really odd since we're only 25 miles west of Washington DC but no one's complaining. No one who stays that is. Lots of people move here and then leave because of this. No cable either. Also, for what it's worth, no CCD. Lots of colony losses this spring but all attributable to usual poor management and the odd winter/spring weather. We're extremely proud of being "behind" technologically and it's reflected in the quality of life. I've witnessed visiting friends fumbling in vain with their blackberries and cell phones actually having anxiety attacks as the realization that they are "disconnected" dawns on them.
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« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2007, 12:32:23 AM »

I think ccd is what inspired me to get off my arse and start my hives.I go with the GMO theory. What the hell are we doing to ourselves? A beekeeper I spoke to this weekend lost his hives, he admitted to poor winter mngmt. Climate change sounds like a close second. Our town is an apple and peach orchard basically. The bad late frost wiped our orchards out, big ouch! Chemicals always...we have done worse in the past though...ddt, mosquito spraying ect., ect.... Bad juju all around, although my inspiration to raise bees.
Syd
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« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2007, 08:19:20 PM »

I own 3'000 + hives it is normal to loose 30% a year. As stated in the honey producers magazine USA is loosing 300'000 hives a year to pesticide poisonings. This should big enough loss to have the federal law enforced. all pesticides need to have testing done on how it will affect drones' queens' larvae' and workers. This is not being done!  One big problem is that when the EPA gave primacy of enforcement to individual states the states do not enforce bee protection. Whatever the truth is of CCD science cannot be in fear of discovering it. We need the funding for research to discover the truth no matter where this leads us.     
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« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2007, 08:20:58 PM »

HFCS.   That acronym keeps surfacing, it must be alien speach.  Have a wonderful, beautiful day, good health.  Cindi

HFCS == High Fructose Corn Syrup == nasty stuff == cheap alternative to sugar


Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2007, 05:18:31 AM »

I see chemicals is leading our opinions, 60% or so in favour of this reason.

Having read many hundreds of posts in here over the last couple of years, I cant help but think beekeepers in the US need to get back to nature, and in a big hurry.

There are just so many posts on "how do I treat this or that" and so many answers involving chemicals.

Its like a lot of people just cant comprehend leaving a hive alone. If "they" arent feeding sugar water they are spraying some sort of chemical to cure some problem, the nature of which hasnt been determined.

Pesticies, fungicides, mouse baits, skunk repellant, ant killer, mite killer, beetle killer, moth killer, acids, powders, sprays and on and on it goes.

Its amazing you have any bees left.
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« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2007, 10:10:49 AM »

But remember that someone early on said that GMOs were to be listed under chemicals. Then there are the pesticides and herbicides that don't go into hives but are on the plants the bees visit.
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