Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
December 29, 2014, 06:00:07 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What is better foundation  (Read 2568 times)
beeginner
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 107


Location: Arkansas Mountain View

The swarm I hived


« on: March 22, 2007, 12:15:36 AM »

Tomarow im going to talk to the a guy that has a bunch of hives just siting in a milk barn and right out side I know the ones outside need new foundation. Im looking in the DADANT & SONS,INC catalog and I just wanting to know wich foundation  is better the Plasticell or Duragilt im shure thay have there good sides and there bad ones. All the hives out side I opend and thay have the Crimp Wire and when I tap the wax it just falls apart. And one more thing there is about 20 supers out side and 4 hive bodies in there might be 30  in side from what I can see but if thay all need new foundation how much woud thay be worth? sence I have no clue. I was thinking if I got 20 supers it woud be worth aroud 60 bucks tell me if im close or not lol Thanks for the help ever. Smiley grin
Logged
Understudy
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4641


Location: West Palm Beach, Fl


WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 07:14:55 AM »

Get a natural cell size foundation. 4.9 mm size cells.
Depends on what kind of shape they are in if it is worth it.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
Logged

The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13989


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2007, 07:22:20 AM »

One of the decisions you need to make is if you want small cell or not.  If you want small cell, your choices are different.  If you don't care about cell size you have more choices.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

Plasticell is not small cell.  It's 5.4mm, I'm pretty sure (I don't have any here to measure).  It has raised cell walls on the plastic and possibly a very small amount of wax sprayed onto it.  Acceptance is more difficult with this kind of foundation, but it's pretty permanant.  If the wax moths mess it up you just scrape it off and let the bees rebuild it.

Duragilt is a smooth sheet of plastic with a layer of wax on each side that is then embossed.  In other words it's like wax foundation that has a plastic core.  It does not require wiring (neither does the Plasticell) and is accepted about the same as wax foundation is.  But if the wax moths mess it up or the bees decide to reuse the wax and tear it down to the plastic they will never rebuild on the plastic.

You can also buy unwired wax and vertically wired wax.  Acceptance is not an issue with wax and if you buy the vertically wired wax, you won't have to wire it.

As far as smaller cells, Pierco frames and sheets run from about 5.2 to 5.3mm (see the link above for pictures of exact measurements) depending on the size of the frame or sheet.   This is closer to natural sized.

Mann Lake PF-100 and PF-120 plastic frames with foundation, are slightly under 5.0mm.  This is a pretty good size, although I'd prefer 4.9mm.

Dadant small cell is available in 5.1mm and 4.9mm, wired and unwired, deep and medium.  You may have to call to find the one you want as they don't all seem to be in the online catalog.  They are also available from Brushy Mt.

Or you can stop using foundation all together:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 08:19:43 AM »

If the question is just about regular foundation, I like plasticell hands down.  Duragilt will be accepted slightly better, but that is one use only, the plasticell can be used over and over.

As with most foundation, don't put it on if there isn't a flow there have been reported acceptance problems.  I've not had any.

Yeah, then there are all of the other options.

Rick
Logged

Rick
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15342


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2007, 02:02:30 PM »

as usual, i'll take a different point of view.

do a search here or on other boards.  many people, especially beginners, have had some problems getting bees to accept plastic foundation.  there are tricks to it, so if you are going that way, read up.

as beginners, i think most of us have had pretty good luck with wax foundation.  there aren't any tricks.  the bees just use it.  the wax starter strips interest me and i intend to experiment with them some this year.

my advice would be to use what is easiest for the bees to accept.  you will have enough to watch out for if you are just starting beekeeping.  + you can buy the wax sheets in bulk and save money.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6440


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2007, 02:57:05 PM »

I agree with kathyp.   If your going to use foundation,  go with wax as your first choice.  Second would be plasticell, and last would be duragilt.  I dislike duragilt because it is easy to screw up.  If there is not a flow or you don't feed, or they run out of feed,  they will start chewing the wax off the plastic sheet.  Once they expose the plastic, they will never build comb there.

Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


beeginner
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 107


Location: Arkansas Mountain View

The swarm I hived


« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2007, 06:42:01 PM »

Thanks all for the help ever one  But one ? why the small cell size  Im new at this i dont have any bees but i talkd to the guy today and he said 7 buckd for a hive body and the bottem bord and a top with the frames and like 4 or 5 for the supers all the wood and frames are good just needs new  foundation  so im gonna look aroud and see and i well let him know. well i guess Crimp wire is better for the bess and probley better for me if i dont hafe to wire it lol. Thanks all for leting me bug you  Smiley
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15342


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2007, 08:16:45 PM »

some people believe that small cell foundation, or allowing bees to draw their own foundation from strips, reduces mite problems.  when bees draw foundation from scratch they end up making smaller cells than foundation has.  sometimes it takes them a while to 'regress' to small cell.

i'll let someone who believes in small cell explain it to you.  they will probably do a better job of it. Smiley
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13989


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2007, 08:16:51 PM »

>  But one ? why the small cell size

The answer to that is in the links I listed.  The short version is to control the Varroa mites.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
TwT
Senior Forum
Global Moderator
Galactic Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3384


Location: Walker, La.

Ted


« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 08:43:39 PM »

I agree with kathyp.   If your going to use foundation,  go with wax as your first choice.  Second would be plasticell, and last would be duragilt.  I dislike duragilt because it is easy to screw up.  If there is not a flow or you don't feed, or they run out of feed,  they will start chewing the wax off the plastic sheet.  Once they expose the plastic, they will never build comb there.




I agree with robo in a way, but I would go with pierco before and of the other plastic foundations.....and then in his order but wax first...
Logged

THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
beeginner
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 107


Location: Arkansas Mountain View

The swarm I hived


« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2007, 12:27:13 AM »

Hi Michael Bush I was trying to look at the site but my pc woud not let it load but I just did it and it loaded. I found some small cell at betterbee,inc  Thanks
Logged
Kirk-o
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1059


Location: Los Angeles california


« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2007, 12:21:02 AM »

Good deal small cell
kirk-o
Logged

"It's not about Honey it's not about Money It's about SURVIVAL" Charles Martin Simmon
Sean Kelly
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 903


Location: Buckley, Wa

I Pick; Therefore I Grin


WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 12:56:42 AM »

I saw in Mann Lake's catalog they were offering their Rite-Cell foundation in either Natural or Black.  What's the difference?  Why would you use black foundation?

<><  Sean Kelly
Logged

"My son,  eat  thou honey,  because it is good;  and the honeycomb,  which is sweet  to thy taste"          - Proverbs 24:13
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5318


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 02:07:36 AM »

I am a new beekeeper also, having started my hive last year. My bees totally took to the plasticell frames no problem at all. They smelled really good, having been sprayed with beeswax. Maybe that is the trick to have them sprayed or brushed really well with beeswax.
Logged
Understudy
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4641


Location: West Palm Beach, Fl


WWW
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 06:06:21 AM »

I saw in Mann Lake's catalog they were offering their Rite-Cell foundation in either Natural or Black.  What's the difference?  Why would you use black foundation?

<><  Sean Kelly

The idea behind the black foundations is to make it easier to see the eggs. I don't use it so I can't be sure if it works or not.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
Logged

The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible
Sean Kelly
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 903


Location: Buckley, Wa

I Pick; Therefore I Grin


WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2007, 11:15:46 AM »

The idea behind the black foundations is to make it easier to see the eggs. I don't use it so I can't be sure if it works or not.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Gotcha, that makes sense.  Wonder if it's worth it.

Sean
Logged

"My son,  eat  thou honey,  because it is good;  and the honeycomb,  which is sweet  to thy taste"          - Proverbs 24:13
beeginner
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 107


Location: Arkansas Mountain View

The swarm I hived


« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2007, 01:02:21 AM »

This week im going to get the supers I wanna get about 25 of them. But at 4 5 bucks thats not to bad and ill just use the good old Crimp wire thats whats in the frames now its a lil more work but I have the time. Thanks all for the help Smiley
Logged
Eve Sylvia
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 30


Location: NY


WWW
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2007, 01:30:21 PM »

Wax foundation, and as litttle as possible. I only attach about an inch to the top of the frame, and let the bees sweat the rest. Sweating wax is healthy and therapeutic for them. Plastic foundation must be awful for them. We need to get their health on track, not force them into supplying OUR needs. So let them make their own comb, they will be stronger for it. (even if it isn't flat and even all the time)
Logged
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2007, 07:33:42 PM »

I endorse Eve wholeheartedly.  Use starter strips to begin with.  Once you have your own wax just melt it and pour it into the slot in the top bar.  That way you will get away from the chemically contaminated wax that is so pervasive in wax used in making foundation.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.529 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page December 24, 2014, 10:22:58 AM
anything