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Author Topic: What we really know about varroa tolerant bees  (Read 8515 times)
Finsky
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« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2007, 04:18:54 AM »

.

SWITZERLAND   - NEBRASCA 2006 .........does information goes.Huh....Missing flight tickets...

http://www.alp.admin.ch/themen/00502/00515/00519/index.html?lang=en

Switzerland

Oxalic acid is extremely effective for the control of Varroa in brood free bee colonies. When applied properly, the three forms of application, spraying, trickling and vaporizing, have an efficacy of more than 95 %. A three-year study showed that the natural content of oxalic acid in spring honey is not increased. Thus, no residue problems are to be expected. The three treatments have shown a good bee tolerability and thus do not significantly differ in this respect from the untreated control. The examination of Gympp and his staff from the Institute for Occupational- and Social Medicine
 
Trickling of oxalic acidof the University of Tübingen has shown that the health of the beekeepers is not endangered during spraying and vaporizing if the recommended protective measures are followed.

University of Nebraska–Lincoln120th Annual ReportJuly 1, 2005 to June 30, 2006I

Entomologists studying oxalic acid for control of varroa mites in bee colonies

http://ard.unl.edu/annreport/ARD%202007%20Annual%20Report.pdf


IANR entomologists are studying a natural product to reduce mite populations in bee colonies. Oxalic acid is a chemical found in plants, such as rhubarb, turnips and broccoli,which makes the vegetation nonpalatable to insects. Using oxalic acid to treat varroa mites could help struggling beekeepers keep their hives healthy and stay economically profitable.

Oxalic acid eventually will become a low-cost, effective and sustainable way to deal with the mite parasite. Entomologists also will teach beekeepers how to use the chemical


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Michael Bush
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« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2007, 06:57:05 AM »

>And still US beekeeping is in trouble?

Mine isn't.
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« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2007, 08:57:45 AM »

Niether is Dee Lusby's and mine are doing better Small Cell all the way no Treatments of any Kind Nada Dude
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Finsky
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« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2007, 09:56:25 AM »

.
That is weird system: My hives are all right and others are dying.   Small cell-natural cells,  it is very different question than grooming and hygienic behaviour.

Many have lost tens of hives with small cells. Wild hives in natural cells die over 90% all over the world.

Idea of small cells have know as long as mites has been in USA and mite does more harm than ever.

When you go to doctor, doctor does not say that you will be allright because your nabour is allright and your sister is allright.

Whole these discussions are out of mind because few hive owners have great solution to mite problem but professionals have not. As New Zealanders' report that Arizona mite resistant bees have not reaseached and we do not know why they resist mites.

....But his is circle. No one can resolve thsi simple question. How some  manage with any mite treatments?
.

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NWIN Beekeeper
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« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2007, 10:16:59 AM »

[Now mapping genome and to identify  genes which are present in varroa tolerant bees are the keys to go on. ]

I was trying to keep this on a beginner's level so that it applies to everyone.
I did not want to make this a university scientific research project that no one could contribute. 
Then this thread become worthless, thanks you're well on the way of driving it that way.

[Oxalic acid is extremely effective for the control of Varroa in brood free bee colonies.]

I try not to run broodless, as it defeats the purpose of raising bees.
And besides, if my bees are broodless, there isn't anywhere for the varroa to lay eggs.
And that break in the brood cycle is an effective enough varroa control.
Chemicals aren't necessary.

[Using oxalic acid to treat varroa mites could help struggling beekeepers keep their hives healthy and stay economically profitable.]

Yeah, and I've heard the horror stories of those that have mis-mixed a batch and killed most if not all of there hives (8 and 10 at a time) that sounds like a great solution. Might as well run gasoline over them and take a match to the aftermath. I still don't get it, are you promoting a genetic solution are or chemical, 'cause you still seem to be twisting them up, even despite a request not to.

[...7 genes at one time makes big variations.]

Well no kidding, but we're not doing DNA testing. or gene mapping.
I'm trying to give average people a practical way to evaluate their bees.

You seem to like the idea of making this harder than it is, like you need to demonstrate you have some superior knowledge.  We're all beekeepers, there's nothing to prove. Overwhelming people with documentation without explaination isn't help, its intimidation, and that's no help in a forum like this. That is why I explained what the documents meant.

[The antivarroa bottom board must never be used with its bottom hole opened as this leads to a
lowering of cluster temperature resulting in ideal conditions for varroa development.]

I have never heard that lower cluster temps make better varroa conditions, that really doesn't add up.
When temps lower, bees diminish brood laying, varroa lay in brood area, with less brood, conditions become less favorable. Mechanically what you say does not make sense.

Like the movie JFK, pay the right scientists enough money and they can prove that an elephant can hang  off a cliff by its tail clinging to a daisy, but common sense tells you this is probable.

I'm not going to maintain a worthless exchange where someone cites slanted studies, that are defunct by thousands of beekeepers that are doing, using, and seeing results. That's a worthless waste of time.

If absolutley nothing else, SBB serve as a great method to monitor mite fall to determine the level of infection. There's no challange to that.

-Jeff
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Finsky
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« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2007, 10:24:34 AM »

.
You know jeff, if we talk on expert level, it is so easy to find out if another is speaking more that he knows. Too many lines revieles in your speak that we cannot talk on expert level.   And these are not beginners' level stories.

I try not to run broodless, as it defeats the purpose of raising bees.
And besides, if my bees are broodless, there isn't anywhere for the varroa to lay eggs.


Jeff, do you have bees? How many hives and how many years?

SBB serve as a great method to monitor mite fall to determine the level of infection. There's no challange to that.

I have never used that. I just kill mites directly.  Monitoring means that you may drop one handling off if your mite load is small.  Such is life.

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2007, 10:30:36 AM »

Many have lost tens of hives with small cells.

You were asked who these people are that lost these hives. How were the doing small cell. How long did they try it. Small cell/natural cell is a little more than just throwing in some small cell foundation and letting it go. There is some work involved until you get the bees fully regressed. 

Wild hives in natural cells die over 90% all over the world.

As I have asked before. If all those wild bees were lost then why is it so many of us are going out and getting them? As I mentioned I know off the top of my head where 10 feral colonies are right now. No wait... Now that I am thinking about it make that 12.
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Finsky
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« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2007, 10:37:41 AM »


As I have asked before. If all those wild bees were lost then why is it so many of us are going out and getting them? As I mentioned I know off the top of my head where 10 feral colonies are right now. No wait... Now that I am thinking about it make that 12.

You are able to read reports from internet. They are not mine.

Varroa kills the hive after 4 years contamination. It depends what kind of load they have. All the time swarms escape from beekeepers.

I know you jerry, keep cool.

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2007, 10:53:09 AM »

You are able to read reports from internet. They are not mine.

Ahh yes, the reports. I am sure that the writers of those reports walked over every acre of ground before and after the mites came, and they know exactly which colonies died from the mites and which died from other causes. That is the problem with me Finsky, I believe what I see before I believe what some know-it-all scientist said.

This has already been discussed on these forums before...... So you believe what is written on paper and I'll believe what I see with my own eyes.

You don't have stocks in the chemical industry do you?
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Finsky
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« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2007, 12:33:22 PM »


This has already been discussed on these forums before...... So you believe what is written on paper and I'll believe what I see with my own eyes.


Yes, that discussion is very funny. It is pleasure always to discus with people who hate learning and education.

It is  a skill to learn from other people..... You need too basic knowledge to understand what they are saying. That is why it is hard to read some reports.
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« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2007, 12:47:59 PM »

Books gives us intellegence, experience gives us wisdom. The combination of the two gives us the ablity to adapt, improvise, and overcome.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2007, 12:49:47 PM »

It is  a skill to learn from other people.....

Must be
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« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2007, 01:40:44 PM »

[You need too basic knowledge to understand what they are saying.] -Finksy

Jerrymac-
You are not just "not an expert" but now you are an "idiot" too?
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« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2007, 01:42:42 PM »

You are not just "not an expert" but now you are an "idiot" too?

Hey I'm not an idiot. I'm a redneck.  grin
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« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2007, 01:57:25 PM »



You might be a redneck if you Barbcue Grill has SNOW CHAINS !!!
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« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2007, 02:15:11 PM »

I'm on to comedy.

Talking with Finsky like breaking rocks with head.
Me dizzy from crazy talk.
Maybe when head not hurt, me try again.

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« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2007, 02:15:34 PM »

Gonna keep it short guys...

First Finsky, saying "Yes, that discussion is very funny. It is pleasure always to discuss with people who hate learning and education." INSULTS MANY (if not all of the MEMBERS - don't do this again.

For every person YOU assume can't follow your post, dozens are.

Secondly, Don't egg on other members by calling them on their education or experience - if you need to drop to a level of "what you call EQUAL EDUCATION" then you no longer are serving as mentor or guidance to members, you bully them. Bullying will not happen Finsky, I promise you that.

Lastly, You education and experience brings a METHOD of beekeeping to the table - one that works for you. For a guy without mite issues, you seem to have lots to say. Anyone Finsky can quote anyone else until they are blue in the face, it doesn't make you smarter, it just proves you know how to use a search engine and cut and paste.

P.S. Finsky - since mite issues DON'T concern you - I think it a bit of a stretch telling people plagued with this problem how poorly we handle it. 

-------------------

Jeff - I ask basically the same things of you, only "refrain" from falling into the Finsky Mind Trap - he can set anyone up to come off as being the bad guy - this comes from banging your head against his brick-wall for hours at the keyboard.

No one sees you or him as pushing any boundaries, I'd rather have open exchange that fuels a topic rather than one that starts a woods-fire, but I have now received 4 letters concerning this post and BOTH OF YOU need to argue the topic, NOT each other. I hope that is clear guys, I've seen the words IDIOTS and STUPID carefully placed as to be NOT directly accusative, but no one here is stupid. Stick to your guns, but put the bullets away.

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Finsky
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« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2007, 02:29:34 PM »

Gonna keep it short guys...

First Finsky, saying "Yes, that discussion is very funny. It is pleasure always to discuss with people who hate learning and education." INSULTS MANY (if not all of the MEMBERS - don't do this again.

Act was not so bad as meaning.

Quote

For every person YOU assume can't follow your post, dozens are.

I can't help them

Quote
Secondly, Don't egg on other members by calling them on their education or experience - if you need to drop to a level of "what you call EQUAL EDUCATION" then you no longer are serving as mentor or guidance to members, you bully them. Bullying will not happen Finsky, I promise you that.

Jerrymac start to teach me. I just tryied to give back. I hope that he understood. He is not to teach me what I read and learn. "We have discussed" Hih hih

Quote
Lastly, You education and experience brings a METHOD of beekeeping to the table - one that works for you. For a guy without mite issues, you seem to have lots to say. Anyone Finsky can quote anyone else until they are blue in the face, it doesn't make you smarter, it just proves you know how to use a search engine and cut and paste.

Aha, my experience and knowledge is just worth cut and paste . Very few has this talent, I see . It is easier to invent all expalantions from hat.

-  And you have ability to denounce it grin  That is smart said.

.
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NWIN Beekeeper
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« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2007, 02:41:27 PM »

Jeff shoots rubber bands at Finski....

Great see what you did, now Dad's MAD!

Its all your fault we can't play together anymore.

[what color spray paint looks good on finsky brick-wall??] evil

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Finsky
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« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2007, 02:57:59 PM »

Jeff shoots rubber bands at Finski....


You have better to check your medication jeff.  cool





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