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Author Topic: possible natural cures and questions  (Read 3511 times)
bt
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« on: February 14, 2007, 05:26:01 PM »

I am new here and have not yet scoured the site for natural rememdies for bees. Natural is my preferred method in all things.  I am relatively new to bees and am leary to try unknown cures/preventions for them as I am affraid I may hurt them. Not sure I have put this post in the right place for as many as possible to read it or not, but I hope so.
I have so many questions as I have put this off for such a long time. Was affraid that people would think I was a ding bat for using natural remedies or preventives on my bees. I have studied disease prevention and natural remedies for well over 25 years after leaving the medical realm, and am still by no means an expert. Think there is no such thing.
I did notice a vinegar vaporizor mentioned here which I am excited to read about. Raw apple cider vinegar is anti viral, anti bacterial and anti fungal, we drink this daily here, just never thought to use it for my bees. Use it for dogs inside and out, horses, humans inside and out, bunnies, ferret and birds, but not the bees (yet anyways). The list of benefits is pages long. People normally, myself included use raw apple cider vinegar and colliodal silver together which brings up my first question.
I asked list members awhile back on a CS list about possibly using colliodal silver on the bees for foul brood and was told that one of the list members had done that and felt the CS killed off his hive. I never read the thread. I am not sure how that could have happened, maybe somehow upset the delicate balance of bacteria a bee has? MAybe what he was treating killed the bees. CS kills positively charged kills bacteria, things going through a one celled stage such as larva and algae and in excessive doses can slightly upset human bacteria, but nothing major. It can kill anything with more than one stomache as a  minute upset in bacteria in one of the stomaches and not the rest can cause serious problems. But it works beautifully on everything with just one stomache. I used it full strength (10 ppm) in one cup applications to my Netherland Dwarf rabbits (2 pounds) with the incurable wry neck. It took daily one cup doses, for three weeks in a row, but it cured it completely and forever and never altered any beneficial bacteria at all. There is a ton of mis information and controversy on colliodal silver, but bottom line is it works, even with small pox. What I do not know is if it does in fact kill the bees and why. It may be a wonderful help with keeping the hives healthy because not only does it kill over 600 bacterias, all virus and all fungus. Nothing can become immune to it as it is not toxic, it smothers bacteria, virus and fungus to death, it doesn't kill it through poison. Nasa uses it to recycle urine, because it beats chlorine in killing unfriendlies and unlike chlorine is non toxic. I have used it personally daily for well over 7 years, but not on my bees directly. I have sprayed the hives with it though. I have to say though that I use colliodal silver and copper, and have also used hydrogen peroxide (which we drink also) to replace chlorine in my pool and my bees drink it without harmful effects.
Clay water is what I am now interested in finding out about as far as bees are concerned. It is the single most covered up cure...... period... no matter which realm you choose to treat with. I have used clay and clay water for 30 years for MANY things, it is truely awsome. Injesting clay or clay water is packed full of minerals. Kills gram positive bacterias, and attaches to fungus and virus, and heavy metals and absorbes it binds it and carries it from the body. I can not imagine in my wildest dreams it would hurt honey bees, but quite the contrary. I have not tried it yet. I will this spring as my girls (one small, soon to be two I hope) have made it through this awful winter, yippee.
Spa's all over the world have used it for wraps and body soaks and hot springs for years, well since Cleopatra at least.
In hospitals, walls cleaned with clay water stayed sterile 3 days longer than any other cleaner used, I can imagine what it would do for the bees. Imagine, eating and cleaning with dirt! LOL Would have to be careful dusting with it though, it could suffocate the bees. Mixed with water it could be sprayed. ***Nothing out there, and I mean nothing, no herb, can surpass the properties of clay for healing inside the body or out.**** I hope this may be an answer for us all with the bees.
Coconut oil is something that we have replaced all oils in my house with. I have tried to think of ways to get it to the bees. Has to be healthier than hydrogenated oils and fats. It melts so easily, even at 76 degrees. It would be difficult to use in the hive mixed with anything any part of the year except fall/winter. It is VERY antifungal, anti bacterial AND anti viral. It doesn't hydrogenate even when heated, it is the only oil that doesn't. It is seen by the human body as a perfect and pure protien and provides a jump of energy 5 minutes after eating. It provides heat! Low thyroid people are warm at last! It is particulalry helpful with lung ailments (through ingestion) and not at all recognized as an oil or fat so it is never stored up in us (cholesterol) . But would a pure protien hurt the bees? The hydrogenated stuff doesn't kill them, maybe the coconut oil won't either. And it has major benefits for winter and fall treatment. Has anyone used coconut oil with their bees?
I hear that bumble bees are the natural enemy of the yellow jacket has anyone else heard this? I have made some make shift bumble bee hives out of cans and straws in hopes of drawing more of them onto the acreage this year. Would this in turn be making yet another problem with the honey bees?
I need to read about this new colony collaspe disease, and I hope I read something tthat will let me know clay will help with this. Thank you, thank you for posting this in pdf form for us to read.
I so hope I have placed this post where many will see it. There may be some hope for cures, including mites with the clay! So many types of clay to choose from, french green clay what the Russians used to pull radiation from the bodies of their animals (cattle) and people after the Cheronobyl melt down. Red terramin clay, what NASA uses to reverse and prevent osteoperosis, white bentonite, for dental troubles, pain, cancer, and et., et., et.....
thanks again for this file and the opportunity to ask and tell all of this info, it was a few years in the making!
bt 
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2007, 08:28:19 PM »

If you want to keep bees naturally I would read these:

All of my site:
www.bushfarms.com

Especially:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm

Then I would read this:
http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/index.htm

And I would joint this group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Organicbeekeepers

Where they will NOT talk about treatments (natural or otherwise) but how to keep bees without the need for them.

Advice for beginners:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm

Basics:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbasics.htm
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Michael Bush
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Kirk-o
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2007, 09:45:16 PM »

Yup that is all the right places to go thats were I go kirk-o
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"It's not about Honey it's not about Money It's about SURVIVAL" Charles Martin Simmon
Finsky
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2007, 02:12:05 AM »

I am new here and have not yet scoured the site for natural rememdies for bees.

There are a lot universities in the world which study and test the effects on natural and unnatural systems on bees.  It means that some one pays for that they do the job.

Thousands of hobbisest have researched ways how diseases and mites react to numerous stuffs.  Russians have made what ever because they have not money for medicines and they trust on "nature heals systems".  (but in Russia man's ecpected age is now really low - it's warning who believes them).

Some of your ideas are huge like mud bath for bees.

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Cindi
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2007, 09:54:18 AM »

bt.  I have used colloidal silver water for years, amazing results with many things.  It is a staple in my home and I make it every other week so that I have it fresh.  It sells in the health food stores for $12 per litre.  I make it for maybe a 20 cents a litre, depending on how much the distilled water costs me.

I have cured many bad things, like you more than likely have.

The biggest power of colloidal silver was the cure of my poor little puppy of parvo.  We all know the parvo virus is a death issue generally with pups, as it maybe with older dogs too, the lower immune systems.

The vets can sometimes pull puppies through with parvo with their methods, but it is usually over the price of $1,000 for this episode.  I treated and cured my puppy for pennies.

Colloidal silver is powerful natural medicine and maybe there should be some further investigation to other uses, like in the hives.  Yes, it basically smothers one celled entities by immobilizing their ability to use oxygen, that is my take on it. I should re-read the colloidal silver manual before I comment too much further. Awesome day, go colloidal.  They use it in hospitals for burn victims by the way.

I see Johnson & Johnson has a bandaid out that is treated with colloidal silver (now isn't that exploiting something for sure).  they charge an arm and a leg for this bandaid.  Makes me laugh.  Awesome day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Kirk-o
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2007, 05:04:37 PM »

I don't use anything
kirk-o
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BEE C
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2007, 05:33:58 AM »

Cindi,
Are you on well water where you are?
I'm very curious about colloidal siver water, and wouldn't mind borrowing your manual at some point.  I looked online and there is a lot of information and gagets out there for it.  Curious how you make yours...There is quite the range of gagets out there.  If its been used for a long time there must be simple ways to make it.  Two hundred dollar gagets seem a bit crazy to me, thats at least two hives! grin
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Cindi
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2007, 12:12:09 AM »

Cindi,
Are you on well water where you are?
I'm very curious about colloidal siver water, and wouldn't mind borrowing your manual at some point.  I looked online and there is a lot of information and gagets out there for it.  Curious how you make yours...There is quite the range of gagets out there.  If its been used for a long time there must be simple ways to make it.  Two hundred dollar gagets seem a bit crazy to me, thats at least two hives! grin

We are lucky, we are on the edge of the end of the city water.  We have city water.

The colloidal silver generator costs about $4 to make, not a penny more I would say.  My husband has constructed several for our family members.  The higher cost would be the two silver rods that must be purchased.  My aunt gave me my rods, I off hand do not know where to purchase silver rods, but I will find out.  More simple than pie.  I will actually photocopy you the manual.  The colloidal silver water is a miraculous healing tool.  I can cite many instances, but I won't bother.  Many people feel it is like voodoo and hooflah it, that is their loss.  I am not one of those.  It is a natural healer, has its own wonderful attributes. 

In the health food stores here the colloidal silver sells for approximately $12.00 per litre.  We can make it ourselves for probably under 50 cents.  and you know that it is still potent because it can be made frequently. It must be stored in a dark glass bottle, or a clear bottle with a brown bag around it, in a dark cupboard.  No plastic, it must be glass.  We will talk.  Bee masters course today was awesome, but I am burned out, sitting in a classroom for 8 hours is not my bag, but I am trudging on.  Best of the best of the day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
hummingberd
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2007, 05:34:39 PM »

bt and cindy-

     Though I don't have anything to offer you in terms of whether your ideas would work with bees, I want to thank you for posting your thoughts and information.  I try to live as healthy a life style as possible, and work to keep an open mind as to products and remedies that are "natural"  I will be researching all the things you mentioned, and perhaps adding them as "staples" in my home too!

-K-
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-K-
Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2007, 11:19:58 PM »

-k-, in reference to the research you anticipate doing, watch out for the "expensive" apparatus to make certain remedies.  The generator can be made in simple layman's language, it is not extravagent nor expensive.  If you find something that intrigues you, please send me the site information.  I would like to look at it as well, to see if it is as simple as what I can do in my own home.  Best of days.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
BEE C
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2007, 05:15:42 AM »

Cindi,
That would be great.  Doesn't sound like voodoo to me.   grin
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Cindi
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 10:18:37 AM »

I am on the search for my colloidal silver manual again, I looked yesterday, but I think that the devil hid it on me, couldn't find it anywhere and I am the kind of person that puts EVERYTHING away in its place.  So, who else could have snaffled it except the devil himself.  I got annoyed and said forget it, I will look again tomorrow.  My sister wanted me to copy it for her to give to one of her friends.  So, I am on the search.

I know that I was reading it about a month ago, so it is here somewhere.  It is usually in my library lowest shelf, but it was not there.  Someone moved it.   Now my husband knows that his name is usually "someone" when I refer to someone doing something.  But "someone" did not take it or move it.  So, I think that it must without a question of a doubt be the devil himself.  Oooh, eee gads!!!  The sun is gonna shine today, after the downpours of rains for days.  Best of the best day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
carol ann
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2007, 09:43:53 AM »

Michael bush,
Thank you for the links. I am getting ready to open up a hive that swarmed into one of my boxes last week. I am having a heck of a time reading and trying to decide weather to treat for varroa now, and if i do treat what to use. Of course at this point it can become nuts so many options. I was given nasty chems by another beekeeper and really do not want to use them. The formic acid seems to be another better option.
Let me try and get this, all opinions please post.
I will eye ball the bees,try and look for mites on the bees. If none are present I will not treat. I continue to check cells for mites on the pupae through season. If no mites I will not treat. Fall seems like the time the mites may or may not be more prevelant. That sounds like the time to treat, even if it looks like none are present? Hopefully. Just need a little advice in this subject.
Many thanks,
Carol ann
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2007, 09:51:40 AM »

All the treatments for mites that I know of is to kill them off, not prevent them. If you don't have them then what would be the point in treating. I know it is said that they are every where and we all have them, yet I haven't found one yet. (going into third year) My biggest problem is wax moths.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2007, 09:00:42 PM »

>I am having a heck of a time reading and trying to decide weather to treat for varroa now, and if i do treat what to use.

First you need to quantify the issue.  Use a sticky board or a tray in a screened bottom board and count the number of mites falling naturally.  If you don't have more than four or five, then you have no problem.  If you have 20 or 30, you need to figure out what to do this fall.  If you have 100 or 200 you need to do something now.

> Of course at this point it can become nuts so many options.

There are many options. You need to pick one consistent with your philosophy of beekeeping.

> I was given nasty chems by another beekeeper and really do not want to use them. The formic acid seems to be another better option.

Formic acid will kill mites.  Sometimes it kills the queen.  Oxalic acid vapor will kill mites.  But both of these will only kill the ones that are not capped, and most of them are capped.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesvarroatreatments.htm

You can also do powdered sugar or drone trapping.  But there is no point doing any of them if you don't currently have a problem.  It will be much more effective to do something in the fall when there is no brood.

>I will eye ball the bees,try and look for mites on the bees.

Most people never see mites on bees.  I would not consider this a very accurate assessment.  If you want to do a sugar shake that would be much more accurate:

http://entomology.unl.edu/beekpg/tidings/btid2000/btdjan00.htm#Article2

>If none are present I will not treat. I continue to check cells for mites on the pupae through season.

That is a much more accurate test.  A purple mite is easy to see on a white drone pupae and they are more attracted to the drone pupae.

> If no mites I will not treat.

There will be mites.

> Fall seems like the time the mites may or may not be more prevelant.

No more  prevelant, but out of the capped cells where most of them have been.

> That sounds like the time to treat, even if it looks like none are present?

If you are not doing natural cell size or some other thing that will keep them under control, there will be a lot of mites in the fall.  Still I would quantify the problem as you can see if what you are doing is working.

> Hopefully. Just need a little advice in this subject.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#varroa
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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carol ann
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2007, 03:22:03 AM »

this will be my VERY first year beekeeping. so I am just', learning about this cell size and varrova correlation.
I will reading more. My frames are used frames and will need to replaced, probably next year. I anticipate I will be using some kind of new practice next year to keep the girls happy.
BTW I opened my freebee swarm hive. They were busy, and healthy. What a pretty queen, she was dancing and seemed to be keeping everyone busy. I wasn't even there.
bleep cats
carol ann
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