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Author Topic: Collony Collaps Disorder  (Read 3991 times)
mat
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« on: February 10, 2007, 06:15:02 PM »

I just found this informarion on the meadmakers forum. But probably this is the forum it should be published. Looks scary. Have anybody noticed anything? I listened to mine two days ago, they were fine.

http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/pressReleases/FallDwindleUpdate0107.pdf

http://beealert.blackfoot.net/~beealert/surveys/index.php

UNDIAGNOSED DIE-OFF, APIS - USA (MULTISTATE)
***********************************************
A ProMED-mail post
<http://www.promedmail.org>
ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases
<http://www.isid.org>

Date: 5 Feb 2007
From: Brent Barrett <salbrent@sbcglobal.net>
Source: Discovery News [edited]
<http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/02/05/bees_ani_02.html?category=travel&guid=20070205144500>


Honey Bee Die-off Alarms Beekeepers
---------------------------------------------
Something is wiping out honey bees across North America, and a team
of researchers is rushing to find out what it is.

What is being called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) has now been seen
in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida, Georgia and way out in
California. Some bee keepers have lost up to 80 percent of their
colonies to the mysterious disorder.

Those are quite scary numbers," said Dennis vanEngelsdorp,
Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture's lead apiarist. Whatever
kills the bees targets adult workers, which die outside the colony,
with few adults left inside, either alive or dead. The disorder
decimates the worker bee population in a matter of weeks.

Aside from making honey, honey bees are essential for the pollination
of tens of million of dollars worth of cash crops all over the United
States. That's why almond growers of California, for instance, are
taking notice and pledging funds to help identify and fight the honey
bee disorder.

Among the possible culprits are a fungus, virus, or a variety of
microbes and pesticides. No one knows just yet. On 1st inspection,
the pattern of die-offs resembles something that has been seen in
more isolated cases in Louisiana, Texas and Australia, vanEngelsdorp said.

"Right now, our efforts are on collecting as many samples as
possible," said vanEngelsdorp. Bees that are collected are carefully
dissected and analyzed to see what might have killed them.

Other researchers are keeping track of the problem using Google Earth
as well as cutting-edge hive-sniffing and eavesdropping technology to
investigate the problem.

"We're trying to sort out the myriad of variables," said Jerry
Bromenshank of the University of Montana and Bee Alert Technology,
Inc. "We've sent teams to Georgia, Florida, Pennsylvania, and
California. The scenario was about exactly the same everywhere we looked."

The locations of the bees are put on a global database to see whether
there is any geographic pattern. Bromenshank also uses a
groundbreaking audio analysis technique that allows hearing specific
changes in bee colony sounds when specific chemicals are present.
Chemical air sampling in hives is also being planned, he said.

Just how bad the bee problem is right now is unknown, since the 1st
cases came at the end of 2006, and many colonies in northern states
are not active yet.

As spring awakens honey bee colonies, it will be vital for beekeepers
to send information to the scientists, regardless of how well or
poorly their bee colonies are faring, said Bromenshank. For that
purpose the scientists have put together a confidential beekeeper
survey on their website
<http://maarec.org/>.

"Beekeepers over-wintering in the north may not know the status of
their colonies until they are able to make early spring inspections,"
said Maryann Frazier, apiculture extension associate in Penn State's
College of Agricultural Sciences. "This should occur in late February
or early March [2007]. Regardless, there is little doubt that honey
bees are going to be in short supply this spring and possibly into the summer."

[Byline: Larry O'Hanlon]

--
Brent Barrett
<salbrent@sbcglobal.com>

[As this news article points out, bees are more valuable than as just
honey producers. They are essential for pollinating a multitude of
food crops as well as many of the trees, flowers and shrubs that we enjoy.

Bees can be affected by Foul Brood, Varroa mites, bronze bee mites,
and other parasites, fungi and viruses. Despite the importance of
bees, the research is not as energetic as it could be. - Mod.TG]
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mat
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2007, 06:28:25 PM »

Several articles on this have been posted in the reprint article section and there is a link to that pdf in the disease section. Keep reading more to follow.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Kirk-o
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2007, 07:44:18 PM »

Bad news
kirk-o
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BEE C
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 02:38:09 AM »

So sad really that bees are under so much pressure, like many species, the bumble bees arriving early is one more sign of nature being out of order, or a growing imbalance.  How many have watched "An inconvenient truth"?  Gore sure does "show" the statistics that most of us would rather not "see"; as we experience record temperatures/weather phenomenon and pestilence.  I wonder about the small effects of off season budding, premature bird populations not coinciding with insect populations, etc. Those who have worked close to the land have noticed for many years how the 'natural cycles' are off synch.  I have been horrified to watch year round glacial areas in our local mountains disappear, ones that have been there the ten years I have been climbing.  Droughts that make the moss crunch underfoot in a way that hurts the ear in the back of the head that is telling you 'this is bad.'
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2007, 07:37:11 AM »

Bee C, with all due respect - the glaciers that have been there for 10 years?  Try tens of thousands, but once they weren't there at all. 

What I dislike most about the 'inconvenient truth' is it's based on scare 'science'.  We (humans) have only been here for 'ten years'.  Tying our pollution to 'global warming', something that's going to happen no matter what we do, lessens the message that we shouldn't poison our planet, our home.  We aren't going to stop global warming, any more than we're going to stop that glacier.  There are forces on this planet stronger than any group of humans.  We can control ourselves and take care of the environment, but we aren't going to do a darned thing about the climate changes that continue to go on over eons, with us or without us.

As for the bees, that's totally our fault, we imported them to America, then we imported all kinds of nasties to kill them off with our mismanagement.  Beekeeping used to be an easy hobby  Cry
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2007, 08:08:29 AM »


As for the bees, that's totally our fault, we imported them to America, then we imported all kinds of nasties to kill them off with our mismanagement.  Beekeeping used to be an easy hobby  Cry


Yup, we used skreps and burned off our bees every year, now we just destroy them with chemicals.

Beekeeping is a relatively easy hobby, read Michael Bush's lazy beekeeping.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm

I find it very helpful.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 08:31:37 AM »

>Beekeeping is a relatively easy hobby, read Michael Bush's lazy beekeeping.

It can be easy if you let it.

It's been a hard winter on the bees around here, just because of the warm spell followed by a couple of sudden cold snaps.  But I have not heard of any other problems in this neck of the woods.
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 09:31:01 AM »

...>ones that have been there the 10 years I have been climbing.>

Bee C, with all due respect - the glaciers that have been there for 10 years?  Try tens of thousands, but once they weren't there at all. 

Ann, I think that BeeC was talking about him climbing the mountains for 10 years, not the glaciers being there for 10 years.  Sometimes things can be misleading in how people put their thoughts on keyboards.  Awesome day.  Cindi
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2007, 10:13:12 AM »

Quote
How many have watched "An inconvenient truth"?

not surprising that crap makes a crappy movie.  take a statistics class.  first thing you'll learn is that statistics can be made to say anything.  also....watch who jumps on the global warming band wagon and what they want.  that also tells a part of the story.

that said....this phenomenon is certainly interesting and deserves our full attention. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2007, 11:46:42 AM »

Whoa there! :-DI did mean to spark a discussion about climate change, as I DO think our problems with bee diseases are a LOT more to do with global changes than the use of miticides, bad or neglectful beekeeping styles, etc.  I noticed that in the most recent hypothesis on colony collapse disorder that Aspergillis fungus is taking the rap.  From what i understood in the research there have been other periods where there were similar die offs perhaps due to this/other fungus as well. Aspergillis has been around for a long time, so why the impact now? or during these other periods?  My guess is wind and weather patterns, and temperature abnormalities.  The checks and balances of ecosystems not quite working?  If pests like pine beetle are destroying large swaths of forest, coral reefs dying off due to lack of oxygen, not to mention tidal dead zones enlarging, is CCD the same thing on a different level?  So many pathogens seem to be flourishing.
 I guess the problem with "an inconvenient truth" is that its perceived to be political.  No offence to you either kathy, but I have taken stats courses and earth science courses ei chemistry, biology, geology, etc.  I am well aware of the ways in which stats can be manipulated.  For example, thousands of western civilizations top climate change scientists come out of the closet repeatedly about climate change, and days later you have newspapers here citing some 'researcher' whose soon to be published work contradicts the bulwark of CONSENSUS.  I don't see a bandwagon emerging here in Canada.  Our prime minister was only a month ago calling climate change a "socialist agenda". 
Quote
What I dislike most about the 'inconvenient truth' is it's based on scare 'science'
I know Gore is a politician so he may rub some the wrong way...but do you really not think that there is any meaningful connection between human industrial polutants in the hundreds of millions of tons per year and climate change being vastly accelerated? With resultant levels of carbon in the atmosphere MUCH HIGHER than at any point in the earths history?
I really like the title of the movie, I thought it was just simply a smart hook, until I started to discuss the movie and found how much it disturbs people.  One thing I have to disagree with Gore on is that there is hope. He isn't 'predicting' anything other than what scientists are 'describing', and still we don't want to see or hear.
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2007, 01:56:53 PM »

Well said, Bee C.

Regardless of my own political leanings, I respect and admire Al Gore's exploration of global warming. Sure, natutral cycles have affected (and will continue to affect) climate, but it's more plausible than not that manmade atmospheric pollutants produced in modern times have significantly contributed to the decline of the polar icepacks. Which affects currents...which affects weather.

But....
Quote
One thing I have to disagree with Gore on is that there is hope.

Are you saying there is or isn't hope? I got the impression Gore thinks there is. In any case, I'm hedging my bets and putting pontoons on my bottom boards.
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2007, 02:22:51 PM »

oh, don't get me wrong smiley.  i don't dispute global warming.  how else would you explain the end of the last ice age??

i have a problem with combining political/socialist/internationalist agenda with 50 years of stats....ignoring 100s of years of stats, ice core samples, historical data, etc. that would put great doubt on how much impact man has really had.  also ignoring sun cycles and the fact that other planet (without people, to my knowledge) are also warming up.

i also have a problem with perky little weather girls that think certification should be removed from those who don't agree with her version of global warming.....and i have a problem with the governor of our state, who is a true socialist and wants to legislate by decree what we drive, when, where, and what we put in what we drive....all without any real science to back him.  (among the other screwy things he'd like to do)

ok....i'll climb off my soap box  smiley  just remember....follow the legislation.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2007, 08:53:31 PM »

I just found this informarion on the meadmakers forum. But probably this is the forum it should be published. Looks scary. Have anybody noticed anything? I listened to mine two days ago, they were fine.

This news story made the AP wire earlier this week. NPR carried a segment on it this evening. One migratory beekeeper had 3,000 colonies and lost 2,000 of them. What's weird is that they reported that there were just empty hives. Not littered with dead bees, just no bees. Anyone heard more about it?

Kev

PS, can y'all take the global warming debate elsewhere? I don't like reading rants from either side of this issue.

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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2007, 09:14:27 PM »

I just found this informarion on the meadmakers forum. But probably this is the forum it should be published. Looks scary. Have anybody noticed anything? I listened to mine two days ago, they were fine.

This news story made the AP wire earlier this week. NPR carried a segment on it this evening. One migratory beekeeper had 3,000 colonies and lost 2,000 of them. What's weird is that they reported that there were just empty hives. Not littered with dead bees, just no bees. Anyone heard more about it?

Kev

Oh yeah, I have heard and read way to much about it. See my previous post.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2007, 09:55:01 PM »

I think we should NOT worry about global warming until it is 102 degrees year around.And don't worry about chemicals until are homes are polluted as much as the commercial beekeepers hives are
kirk-o

Then we should worry
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2007, 07:52:07 PM »

Bee C  - you have a PM....
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2007, 06:58:43 PM »

Quote
See my previous post.

I missed that thanks for point it out. I'm off to read some of the reprints.

kev
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2007, 11:48:03 PM »

Kev,

What's the reference to swinging birches about? I recall that Russians (and maybe Finns?) like to swing birch branches around to cool themselves inside their saunas.
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 01:06:50 AM »

Kev,

What's the reference to swinging birches about? I recall that Russians (and maybe Finns?) like to swing birch branches around to cool themselves inside their saunas.


NOuuuuu.   grin

That bunch of  birch twings are mention to rise the tempereture  on skin. The basic temperature in sauna is 70-80 C. Then you cast water on hot stones and it makes  hot vapour to air. You sweat in hot and dirt become loosen on your skin. With buch you give just speed. Rough leaves of Betula verrucosa rub your skin nicely.

When we have hot days in summer and we are not anxious to go wash into sauna.

Sauna is originally from Russia. Near Chinese border Russians have very same kind saunas like in Finland.

I have read that American indians have had tent saunas too. Hot stones in the middle on teepee.



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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2007, 04:47:08 AM »

Sweatlodges are done by north and south american indians.  I've even heard of innuit having them. grin
In our area, the "traditional way" practiced by first nations people is like birch or maple branch dome with skins or other canvass covering.  Dirt floors, lined with cedar boughs.  Or dug earth sweatlodges with cedar walls.  Ive done sweatlodges here and some were very hot.  Really cleansing, and then you jump into a large creek.  Running water is supposed to be used after apparently.  What they call finnish style sauna here, is a cedar room with wooden benches and water thrown onto rocks.  Nice also. grin
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2007, 05:19:13 AM »

The top of saunas is "smoke sauna". It has not chimney and flames are inside the house. The bath is very soft and pleasant.  Problem is that they tend to burn easily. 

In picture the chimney gives fresh air to smoke sauna and it begins from roof.
More pictures http://images.google.fi/images?svnum=10&hl=fi&q=savusauna&btnG=Hae




That is style which we appreciate here.


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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2007, 06:55:36 AM »

>I have read that American indians have had tent saunas too. Hot stones in the middle on teepee.

It's an Inipi.  More like an upside down willow basket covered with old buffalo robes.  Of course those have gotten hard to come by, so old carpet or tents or tarps are more common.  Smiley

http://www.ppoe.at/leiter/raro/images/inipi-01.jpg
http://letarot.com/huttes/images/58-dos9.jpg
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2007, 07:19:30 AM »


Now we are near final solution! Beehives into Inipi and then we pour acetic acid on hot stones!

Bees in sauna !

We have in Finland term "louse sauna".  It means that in good old years children, soldier and so on, they went into sauna where was something delousening stuff .
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2007, 11:34:00 AM »

Acronym Definition: I've noticed that recently I see CCD come up often. Now we add Colony Colapse Disorder to the list. Here are a few others.

CCD Camouflage, Concealment, & Deception
CCD Charge-Coupled Device
CCD Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (Catholic religious education)
CCD Cabinet Committee on Disinvestment (India)
CCD Cafe Coffee Day (India)
CCD Calcium Compensation Depth (oceanography)
CCD Call Center Dashboard (shortcuts that automatically open applications in a call center)
CCD Carbonate Compensation Depth (geology)
CCD Cash Concentration and Disbursement
CCD Category Class Diagram
CCD Category Code Directory
CCD Category Code Document
CCD Catholic Christian Doctrine (common, but incorrect)
CCD Census County Division
CCD Center for Character Development
CCD Center for Clean Development
CCD Center for Culinary Development
CCD Central City Dump
CCD Central Cloudy Dystrophy (eye disorder)
CCD Central Core Disease
CCD Centro Cristiano Democratico (Christian Democratic Center; Italian political party)
CCD Centro Cristiano Democratico (Italian: Christian Democratic Center)
CCD Certified Christian Doula
CCD Certified Clinical Densitometrist (bone density certification)
CCD Chair Command Disconnect
CCD Changeling Control Division (comic strip)
CCD Charge-Coupled Detector
CCD Chartered Creative Director (AAPRMA)
CCD Checkout Command Decoder
CCD Chemical Composition Distribution
CCD Chemical Control Division (EPA)
CCD Ciena CoreDirector (Ciena)
CCD City Civil Defense Director
CCD Civil Censorship Division (Civil Intelligence Section, Supreme Command, Allied Powers Far East Command)
CCD Cleidocranial Dysplasia
CCD Client Contractual Dependency
CCD Closed Caption Decoder
CCD Closed Cycle Diesel
CCD Coalition For Cultural Diversity (Quebec)
CCD Coarse Control Damper
CCD Coherent Change Detection (image processing)
CCD Committed Completion Date
CCD Colony Colapse Disorder
CCD Committee on Commerce and Distribution
CCD Committee on Corporate Development
CCD Common Connectivity Device
CCD Common Core of Data (US Department of Education)
CCD Complementary Coded Decimal
CCD Computer Controlled Display
CCD Computer Crimes Division
CCD Computerized Circuit Design, Inc.
CCD Concatenated Disk (driver)
CCD Conceptual Common Denominator
CCD Conference of the Committee on Disarmament
CCD Conference on Copyright for Digital Millennium
CCD Configuration Control Decision
CCD Configuration Control Directive
CCD Configuration Control Document(s)
CCD Configuration Control Drawing
CCD Consortium for Citizens with Disabilities
CCD Constants Change Display (NASA)
CCD Construction Career Days
CCD Construction Change Directive
CCD Construction Completion Date
CCD Consular Consolidated Database
CCD Continental Communications Division
CCD Contract Completion Date
CCD Convention to Combat Desertification
CCD Corporate Communications Department
CCD Corporate Customer Database (AAFES)
CCD Correspondence Control Division (White House)
CCD Cortical Collecting Duct
CCD Council of Canadians with Disabilities (Conseil des Canadiens avec DĂ©ficiences)
CCD Counseling and Career Development
CCD County Conservation Districts
CCD Courage the Cowardly Dog (cartoon show)
CCD Critically Controlled Document

I heard a program on Coast to Coast AM with George Noory about this problem from a award winning specialist in apiculture - he said: "In the early 80s we had Tracheal Mites and understood it, in the late 80s came Varroa and are still striving to get this under control, but CCD has us puzzled, especially in California where mass exodus of bees and dwindling hive count is hard to study because as instinctual and compulsive as bees are, this defies their natural behavior."

Could a species SO DEPENDANT ON PHEROMONES be receiving a signal that has turned on a suicide mechanism in hives? Is something triggering man-kept colonies to be breeding grounds for Feral repopulating bees, are they triggered to repopulate the deep wild and using us as a means to build up  their numbers - is man feral bees enablers in a mass time of species change?Huh
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2007, 11:41:15 AM »

.

So CCD has so many affects! It is really infectious .

I read just that one reason is  BBP    (Bad Beekeeping Practice)
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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2007, 11:43:57 AM »

you know that whole alien thing we were talking about??  they haven't dwindled...they've just gone on home......
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2007, 11:45:19 AM »

Finsky, I had a different image in my head of what you looked like. Not anything like your picture above. evil
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« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2007, 11:56:41 AM »

Finsky, I had a different image in my head of what you looked like. Not anything like your picture above. evil

Please, save us from nearer details!
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« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2007, 08:41:46 PM »

Kev,

What's the reference to swinging birches about? I recall that Russians (and maybe Finns?) like to swing birch branches around to cool themselves inside their saunas.

That bunch of  birch twings are mention to rise the tempereture  on skin.

I'm laughing like crazy about that one. I has nothing to do with the sauna, although with the temps around here lately a good sauna would be nice. Reinbeau picked it up on another post a couple of days ago. It's a quote from a Robert Frost Poem "Birches." It's a fine poem about a love and other things. Here's the whole poem.

Birches

WHEN I see birches bend to left and right   
Across the line of straighter darker trees,   
I like to think some boy's been swinging them.   
But swinging doesn't bend them down to stay.   
Ice-storms do that. Often you must have seen them          5
Loaded with ice a sunny winter morning   
After a rain. They click upon themselves   
As the breeze rises, and turn many-colored   
As the stir cracks and crazes their enamel.   
Soon the sun's warmth makes them shed crystal shells   10
Shattering and avalanching on the snow-crust—   
Such heaps of broken glass to sweep away   
You'd think the inner dome of heaven had fallen.   
They are dragged to the withered bracken by the load,   
And they seem not to break; though once they are bowed   15
So low for long, they never right themselves:   
You may see their trunks arching in the woods   
Years afterwards, trailing their leaves on the ground   
Like girls on hands and knees that throw their hair   
Before them over their heads to dry in the sun.   20
But I was going to say when Truth broke in   
With all her matter-of-fact about the ice-storm   
(Now am I free to be poetical?)   
I should prefer to have some boy bend them   
As he went out and in to fetch the cows—   25
Some boy too far from town to learn baseball,   
Whose only play was what he found himself,   
Summer or winter, and could play alone.   
One by one he subdued his father's trees   
By riding them down over and over again   30
Until he took the stiffness out of them,   
And not one but hung limp, not one was left   
For him to conquer. He learned all there was   
To learn about not launching out too soon   
And so not carrying the tree away   35
Clear to the ground. He always kept his poise   
To the top branches, climbing carefully   
With the same pains you use to fill a cup   
Up to the brim, and even above the brim.   
Then he flung outward, feet first, with a swish,   40
Kicking his way down through the air to the ground.   
   
So was I once myself a swinger of birches;   
And so I dream of going back to be.   
It's when I'm weary of considerations,   
And life is too much like a pathless wood   45
Where your face burns and tickles with the cobwebs   
Broken across it, and one eye is weeping   
From a twig's having lashed across it open.   
I'd like to get away from earth awhile   
And then come back to it and begin over.   50
May no fate wilfully misunderstand me   
And half grant what I wish and snatch me away   
Not to return. Earth's the right place for love:   
I don't know where it's likely to go better.   
I'd like to go by climbing a birch tree,   55
And climb black branches up a snow-white trunk   
Toward heaven, till the tree could bear no more,   
But dipped its top and set me down again.   
That would be good both going and coming back.   
One could do worse than be a swinger of birches.   60
 


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One could do worse than be a swinger of birches.
Finsky
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« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2007, 09:16:25 PM »

Eva's disorder polka LDP

To listen in Finnsh


nuapurista kuulu se polokan tahti
jalakani pohjii kutkutti.
ıevan äiti se tyttöösä vahti
vaan kyllähän ıeva sen jutkutti,
sillä ei meitä silloin kiellot haittaa
kun myö tanssimme laiasta laitaan.

salivili hipput tupput tapput
äppyt tipput hilijalleen.
halituli jallaa tilituli tallaa
tilitili tilitili tilitili tallaa.
halituli tilitali jallati jallan,
tilitali talitali helevantaa.

the sound of a polka drifted from my neighbor`s
and set my feet a-tapping oh!
ıeva`s mother had her eye on her daughter but
ıeva she managed to fool her, you know.
`cause who`s going to listen to mother saying no
when we`re all busy dancing to and fro!

http://www.otomatikportakal.com/baslik/leva%60s+polka.htm
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« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2007, 10:43:02 PM »

I should have known better than to ask. But seriously guys, thanks for the edification. The Frost poem is beautiful and I should have caught that being partial to his work.

Finsky - thanks for correcting my grave misconception. I will certainly repair to YouYube momentarily  but...one question: the birch branches - does one apply them gently or does one LAY ON as we say, like the flagellants of old? (pardon this ever increasing digression. It IS fascinating..)
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« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2007, 11:51:50 PM »


Finsky - thanks for correcting my grave misconception. I will certainly repair to YouYube momentarily  but...one question: the birch branches - does one apply them gently or does one LAY ON as we say, like the flagellants of old? (pardon this ever increasing digression. It IS fascinating..)

The style is like you would kill mosqitoes on your skin.  tongue  And your face looks like you try to stay alive in hot hell.
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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2007, 12:24:13 AM »

Does anyone know why a well would be dug up on a hill? Seems it would be a shallower well if dug at the foot of the hill. And then Jack wouldn't have broke his crown and had Jill land on top of him.
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« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2007, 07:38:54 AM »

hmmmm.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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