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Author Topic: Woman as leaders  (Read 3638 times)
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2007, 12:11:06 PM »

When it comes to being a great, or even a good leader, there are a few things to take into consideration.  First is getting that position of leadership.  Not just in politics, but in business also, it takes more to obtain the position that just being able to do the job.  Schmoozing up to the boss or voters, or whoever is responsible in giving the appointment.  Just this skill alone does not qualify you to be effective in the position, but without it, you aren't going to get the chance. 

Then, after you get the position, you can make all the best decisions, but if you can't get the people that you are leading to follow you, then it just won't work.  A leader can not do it all him/her self.  The skills to inspire the people that you are leading is just as important as making the right decisions.  It isn't just inspiring the people that are supportive of you, but also the people who are against your decisions.  If you can get those people to follow you, then you have some skills.

Being effective at the job is important, but if you don't have the leadership skills, then it just won't work.

Personally, I think that Hillary would make a great president.  I think that a lot of people would make a better president then the people that we have to choose from.  I don't think that she has a chance of winning, though.  Too many people will judge her on what is not important to doing the job.  Oh, they won't admit that her marital problem, social status, sex, or anything else will affect it, but it does.  How many times is a woman politician graded on her looks or clothing.  If any of the male counterparts were judged as harshly, then they would fail horribly.  How many times was it pointed out that Pelosi is a mother of five and how many male politicians do we know how many kids they have?  I think that many voters want to identify with the candidate that they are supporting and the way they do that is to compare him or her to people in their life.  Does Pelosi remind you of your mother or sister or ex girlfriend or whomever?  Nancy Pelosi reminds me most of my uncle, but not because of how she or he looks, but how they act.  It's hard to get past that gender bias.

So many things affect the way that people vote.  In one study that I saw it matters which name gets listed top.  sounds crazy, but in counties where the democrat and republican candidate position changes from machine to machine, they estimate that the top position gets a 5-10% advantage. No wonder why most incumbents seek to get their party listed first.

I guess all we can hope for is to try to see how the person will do the job, and not all the smoke and mirrors that they put up to get them that job.

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kathyp
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2007, 01:27:10 PM »

i think that Hillary has some leadership skills.  unfortunately for her, the one thing she seems to lack is the 'loyalty inspiring' ingredient.  the first book i read about the Clinton admin was Stephies (George Stephanopoulos's) book.  he was, and is, a Clinton supporter, but really hammered Hillary.  Dick Morris is the same.  he's a democrat. loves Bill.  voted for Kerry.  hates Hillary.  in all that i have read, it seems that it boils down to paranoia.

a presidents politics we can live with.  the decisions they make on policy are pretty predictable and can be changed later if they don't work out.  however, if a president appoints people based on paranoia, those decisions can have very long lasting and have devastating consequences.  according to those who were closest to the Clinton's, no high level appointments were made without Hillary passing on them.  we can see the results in the military, intel...both domestic and foreign, and in other senior leadership positions. 

i don't agree with Hillarys politics.  she's always been a socialist and i don't think she's changed.  i am more concerned with her decision making processes.  paranoid people tend to create paranoia around them.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2007, 11:47:50 PM »

I know this will stir up some argument but you asked.
I am a Christian so I see this question from a totally different angle then some. I feel women can have jobs to help the husband and family, of course I am now talking about a married woman. I do not believe that women should work on a carrier unless they plan on having NO family and I feel that all women should be more womanly like then what a lot of them are today. Today we have a lot of liberated women who feel they have to be better then a man, emotionally and physically. Married women should put most of their attention on their family, raising children and such. Unmarried women should be trying to get married and having children. Those that do not want a family can work any job fit for a female. I do not think women need to try and be men nor do I feel they, women, have something to prove, like they are just as good as a man. I do feel that women in the same line of work as men should have the same opportunity as a man for advancement and raises. I think our society needs to go back a little in time and treat women as a woman, not as a man and not as a sex object. I do think if more mothers were at home when Johnny got home from school we would have less trouble with our children then we do now, this is only part of the problem with have today. A good leader is a good husband and a good father. The Bible does make man the head of the household, the shame of it all we have a lot of be-getters out there and not fathers, so our country is lacking in good leaders. The churches are crying for good leaders also. A woman should not be a Preacher, the Bible is clear on that yet we have many doing this in our society. But that is due to the great sin this country and world we live in is guilty of. This is part of what I believe.
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2007, 06:25:04 AM »

>they generally lead by consensus.  that works in some situations.

It works best in most situations.  In fact it would be hard to call it "leading" if you didn't.  Other than combat where decisions have to be split-second it is a huge improvement over someone being "the boss".
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2007, 07:09:57 AM »

I know this will stir up some argument but you asked.
Welcome aboard please check to see if you have a thick skin
Quote
I am a Christian so I see this question from a totally different angle then some.
So are the Roman Catholics, Southern Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, United Church members, even a small minority of Unitarian Universalists, Amish.

Quote
I feel women can have jobs to help the husband and family, of course I am now talking about a married woman. I do not believe that women should work on a carrier unless they plan on having NO family and I feel that all women should be more womanly like then what a lot of them are today.
So a woman can't have a job and the husband be a stay at home dad?

Quote
Today we have a lot of liberated women who feel they have to be better then a man, emotionally and physically. Married women should put most of their attention on their family, raising children and such. Unmarried women should be trying to get married and having children.
Women and other minorities have a history of being treated as second class citzens with less respect and rights. Making marriage the great goal for a women continues in that tradition. There is nothing wrong with marriage ut there is nothing wrong with having other aspirations and dreams, including children, marriage, and a carrer. Or a combination of any of those. I firmly believe men need to be more involved in their childrens lives in a positive manner. You make sound like the responsiblity of the family is the womans responsiblity. I disagree with that.
Even as a Christian.

Quote
Those that do not want a family can work any job fit for a female. I do not think women need to try and be men nor do I feel they, women, have something to prove, like they are just as good as a man. I do feel that women in the same line of work as men should have the same opportunity as a man for advancement and raises.
So women and men in the same line of work deserve equal pay, yet that doesn't happen. And what type of job is fit for a female? That is a perfect example of a discrimintory attitude. That alone show not treating them as an equal, with that attitude they go into a job with a strike against them. That is not very christian.

Quote
I think our society needs to go back a little in time and treat women as a woman, not as a man and not as a sex object. I do think if more mothers were at home when Johnny got home from school we would have less trouble with our children then we do now, this is only part of the problem with have today.
Promise Keepers must love you. Sorry while it sounds nice it is a bogus statement. Setting the clocks back to what the 50's where women as the homemaker were constantly discriminated in the workforce. Where women in workforce were discriminated against at the home becuase they had jobs. When the homemakers were taking medication to deal with the stress of the homelife. The 50's were not leave it to beaver.
The 40's were women were called into the workforce to do all those jobs that men were called away to do and raise families. So I guess those jobs and children can't work.
The 20's when women had to protest during WWI in order to get the right to vote. maybe they should stay at home and not vote. maybe they should be forced to wear dresses that don't show their ankles and blouses that ran all the way up to their neck, ad a hat and an umbrella you have the fashion. All you need is a veil and you have a Burkka with frills.

So not being at home when the kids get home is to difficult for the dad. I know to many dads who pick up their kids from school. I had to walk home from school or ride my bike. Neither of my parents picked me up. I was one of many latch key kids of the 70's and 80's. Fortunatly there was a sense of community with my neighbors and I would go to a friends and do homework until one of my parents came home or I would go home on my own. My parents managed to instill discipline in me without having to hoover over me 24/7. Maybe more parents could try that. Also there if the neighbors have kids and don't mind watching the kids for a little while until one of the parents get home that is a good thing. Community is about as Christian as it gets. Having one neighbor watch one week and then rotating is similar to what happened when I was very young. By 6 I was coming home. I knew if there was any problems how to call my parents and my neighbors.

Treating women as second class citzens and not giving them a good level of self esteem is bogus and putting a christian tag on it insults other christians who don't agree with that. Just because women give birth does not make them less in the workforce than men. Giving woment the chance to prove that has shown women can be career minded and have a family, they can be leaders. They can have an impact on society. Look at all the women inventors and see how many have families.

I don't see any reason a woman cannot do a job a man can do and have a family. If want to use the bible as you reasons for your stand that is fine. Remember others read Achintya Bheda Abheda, the Koran, the koan, the torah, or others. Some don't believe in god at all.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2007, 11:17:25 AM »

craigw!  nothing like jumping in a cold river in your skivvies!!!

you probably thought you would catch it from me.  in fact, i agree with you.  families are the foundation of our society.  if men and women had stuck to their traditional, biological...and thus god given roles in the family, i believe that society would be much better off.  as it is, society has dry rot.  the house hasn't fallen down, but you can smell the stink of the rot....it's only a matter of time.

unfortunately, saving the traditional family is like trying to stop nuclear proliferation.....that horse is way out of the barn.

understudy

being a mother and keeper of the home is not being a second class citizen.  yes, women should earn the same for the same job.  they should be able to vote (i think...i have mixed feelings about that smiley ).  however, if women would stay on home and take care of their children, they wouldn't have to worry about those things.  we'd also have fewer men running around with their nuts sucked up into their abdomen.  they'd actually feel like, and maybe act like MEN.  some mothers have to work, but most mothers choose to work either by virtue of the poor choices made in family dynamics, or because of the stuff they think they need to have.

MB

if we are talking about a president or military field commander, they need to make the hard decisions and not be concerned about what people are going to think about them.  they can't worry about whether everyone is going to agree, or someone is going to have hurt feelings.  they can't make decisions based on some long held grudge. 

not long ago, i had to go to a supervisors class.  i came away from the class realizing that the decisions i made as a supervisor would not necessarily be the decision i would make as a leader.  granted, some of that has to do with our screwy labor laws, but other things are just about decision making.

to your point, i think a good leader needs to be able to both gather consensus when it's appropriate, and take command when needed.  the second is the skill that i think most women lack.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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