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Author Topic: Vinegar Vaporizor  (Read 2815 times)
sa
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« on: February 03, 2007, 08:02:26 PM »

As a member of the family of the "inventor" of the Cyclone, I would like to respond to some of the comments and questions about this particular product.  Mr. Maurice Arndt is the head of this small family owned company.  He is a graduate of the University of South Dakota earning an Applied Science Degree post Korean War.  He is a veteran of the United States Marine 3rd Division, Recon. He is a man of great integrity.

First, in regards to acetic acid being perceived as a toxic acid. Do not misconstrue acids when comparing the "Cyclone".  100% oxalic acid and 100% acetic acid are both dangerous. Acetic acid mixed with water becomes vinegar.  Grocery vinegar is 5% acetic acid and 95% water.

The Cyclone applies vaporized 25% food grade white vinegar and 75% water into the colony for 30 seconds per application before moving on to the next colony.  This procedure is done for three consecutive weeks, at seven day intervals, to completely eradicate the varroa and tracheal mite.  In addition to killing parasites, it also kills nosema, fowl brood, chalk brood and hive beetle.

Let me put this in better perspective.  If you use 25% white vinegar at two tablespoons per week over a course of a three week treatment, totaling six tablespoons (which in some cases takes care of the whole year) you are actually using only two cups of 5% white vinegar per year.  You will find this much vinegar in a jar of pickles! 

In terms of the Cyclone's history and perceived lack of active marketing.  Yes, there has been a patent on the machine for fifteen years but unfortunately twelve of the fifteen were spent fighting an effort to destroy the credibility of the Cyclone.  First, there were publications providing instructions how to infringe on the patent by making the machine at home, then fraudulent research was published by a group promoting hazardous chemical treatments.  After working with our local US Senator, two great law firms in Florida and one in Iowa, we were successful in proving the research and subsequent publication was indeed fraudulent.  It is unfortunate that so much time and effort was wasted in this process.

At this time, we are happy to provide this machine to those who are seeking a chemically free alternative that successfully and safely treats their hives. We are not looking for an endorsement from any one entity.  Frankly we have a great product with a proven track record of customers who are increasing their annual honey yields while reducing their losses from dead hives.   

The bee keeping industry is faltering. It is corrupt. We are quite fortunate as American citizens to have the capacity to live free and do things that other persons in other parts of the world can only dream of. 

If you are concerned about your hives, I would strongly suggest that you contact us for more information.
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GNHONEY
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 10:42:26 PM »

Thanks for joining in I am very glad to see that information for other beekeepers I no how good it works and will be ready to take on any varror-tracheal-and foul brood the natural way thank again -----ghnoney----
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 10:48:28 PM »

OK Let's get this out of the way. Where are all the results from all the scientific research done on this for the control of pest and disease in the bee hive? Has any of this been approved for the uses mentioned here in the USA?
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sa
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 05:09:15 PM »

As mentioned, this company is a small family owned business and does not have formal lab research facilities as does the large chemical companies and universities.  Once again, we are not here to twist anyone’s arm to use the Cyclone.  It does work well and we have very happy customers.  If you are looking for formal research methods to base your decision, I’m afraid we are not for you
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 05:18:39 PM »

The inquiry was not for me. I will never use it as I don't ever put anything artificial into the hives, except an occasional feeding of sugar if needed, and I try to avoid that. But since so many people doubt the ability of small cell/natural cell beekeeping because there isn't any so called scientific research, I just have to wonder why they would go for this only on the word of a few who have tried it. And if people believe that this works with out the research then why not believe the natural beekeeping that cost nothing in treatments.

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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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imabkpr
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 08:26:17 PM »

The inquiry was not for me. I will never use it as I don't ever put anything artificial into the hives, except an occasional feeding of sugar if needed, and I try to avoid that. But since so many people doubt the ability of small cell/natural cell beekeeping because there isn't any so called scientific research, I just have to wonder why they would go for this only on the word of a few who have tried it. And if people believe that this works with out the research then why not believe the natural beekeeping that cost nothing in treatments.


What you are saying is that it ok to try small cell without research but one should not try vinegar vapor for lack of research. I don't know about your area but in mine there are no so called wild honeybees. So if what you are saying were true about natural beekeeping why aren't we over run with wild bees? I will tell you why, Honeybees cannot make it without the help of the beekeeper.


 one should not try vinegar vapor without research.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 08:35:36 PM »

>I don't know about your area but in mine there are no so called wild honeybees.

There are plenty of them here.

Mine are doing fine without me providing anything other than a home to live in and some occasional feed to help out at the right times to get a better crop.

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Michael Bush
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 08:37:40 PM »

As I asked in another topic somewhere, if there are no feral bees then how are so many of us getting them? If they can't live without beekeepers then how are they there for us to go get? I am sure there are some in your area, you just don't know it. If there isn't any it is probably because people are wiping them out. Right this moment off the top of my head I know where there are ten feral colonies. Probably more after I think about it for awhile.

 imabkpr
"What you are saying is that it ok to try small cell without research but one should not try vinegar vapor for lack of research."

I am not saying that at all. Other than it is illegal if it hasn't been approved. (Here in the USA) I just had to jump in asking for the proof that it works through research just as every body seems to want the research to proof small cell, natural cell works.

In other words I'm just making waves.
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GNHONEY
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 11:00:38 PM »

jerrymac im just a regular old beekeeper I HAVE SEEN WHAT THIS VAPORIZER CAN DO AND I NO WHAT IT IS CAPABLE OF DOING TRIED EVERYTHING OUT THERE ON THE MARKET HAVE NOT HAD TO TRY ANYTHING ELSE SENCE I STARTED USING THE VAPORIZER ALL MY BEES ARE BURSTING AT THE SEAMS IN THE SPRING SO THERE IS NO NEED TO KNOCK SOMETHING DOWN THAT YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED IM NOT HERE TO START AN ARGUEMENT WITH ANYONE IM LETTING OTHERS NO HOW I AM IMPRESSED WITH THE VAPORIZER FROM HANDS ON EXPERIENCE  --GNHONEY--
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 11:17:56 PM »

I don't hear anyone talking about the legality of it. You know getting hit with a huge fine can out weigh all the benefits. I would suggest that while you push this idea you let people know if it is or isn't approved and the possible repercussions of using it. 
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2007, 10:12:48 AM »

I believe I was the one who sort of started this entire issue by calling the owner of the cyclone. I have to be honest, at $525 the entry price is too steep for a small hobbyist. I must recognize the fact that those that use this device are ardent supporters of the product and do so w/o reservation. Might I consider trying vinegar as an alternative, yes. Not at that price unfortunately. I can appreciate the concept that acetic acid works similarly to formic or oxalic acids and is probably helpful. It would be great if all of these mite preventives received more research.
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2007, 10:00:10 PM »

I don't like to think of my future as a beekeeper to be running a emergency room for bees,I think the only long term solution is to have bees and manage them in such a way as they become resistand and or tolerant of the Mites the mites aren't going away but the  bees will if they don't become resistant or tolerant.
kirk-o cheesy
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Finsky
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2007, 11:49:26 PM »

,I think the only long term solution is to have bees and manage them in such a way as they become resistand and or tolerant of the


Your life will not be long enough for that waiting. You natural guys you do not understand that mite developes too and faster  cheesy

Long term = 50 years or 5000 years?  50 years has not been enough for natural selection but mite has expanded and developed better.

And for Apis cerana thousands of years have not been enough to get rid off the parasite.

*************************

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/gmb/v22n3/22n3a06.pdf
A. cerana workers were artificially infested with varroa
females, 99% succeeded in ridding themselves of the parasite
by performing body movements that expelled or removed
it from their body. It was also observed that many
of the mites that left the host worker were killed by the
infested worker itself or its fellow workers. Defense mechanisms
against the mite similar to those of Apis cerana have
been identified in Africanized bees. Moretto et al. (1993)
observed that 40% of Africanized bees rid themselves of
the parasite when workers of 20 Africanized bee colonies
were artificially infested.
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Finsky
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2007, 12:13:20 AM »

.

What is difference between optimistic and pessimistic people?

When pessimistic says that nothing can go wronger any more ,  optimistic answers "of course it can!"
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Cindi
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2007, 08:39:03 AM »

What is difference between optimistic and pessimistic people?
When pessimistic says that nothing can go wronger any more ,  optimistic answers "of course it can!"

If if that isn't the truth, I don't know what is.  Optimism, wonderful to be able to hold in your hands.  I am an optimistic person and let me tell you, it makes a life that is peaceful, relatively unstressful, and things seem to always work out well, no matter what obstacle may be in your way.  Optimism rules!!!!  Greatest of days.  Cindi
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2007, 08:50:40 AM »

Optimism rules!!!!  Greatest of days.  Cindi

Pessimistics get bigger honey yields!
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Cindi
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2007, 08:52:56 AM »

Ha, ha!!!  LOL.  Greatest of days.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
bt
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2007, 06:35:32 PM »

Hi,
I read your post on the vinegar vaporizor. I am sorry you have gone through so much in getting your product off of the ground and your research information out there. Yes, there is much corruption every where.
On a positive note for your product, I buy raw apple cider vinegar by the gallon in cases, and am not kidding. It's added to the drinking AND bath water. I clean my house and windows with it daily. It corrects the ph for hair and skin, oxygenates the system, alkalizes the sysytem there fore is excellent for pain caused by high acid such as arthritis. It is anti fungal, anti viral, AND anti bacterial.......I have never thought to put it in a spray bottle dilluted and using it in my bee hive. I use it to discourage worms in my animals, freshens breath and biting insects sends them off the first day.
I am on this like white on rice this spring. It should get rid of many unfriendlies and strengthen the bees. I rarely use white distilled vinegar for anything, and would not use it on my bees, (no offense) raw is almost always better. But hey that's me, for many the distilled stuff is MUCH cheaper and will probably do the job well enough. I only have one hive to worry about, hopefully two this year.
I can certainly see how this will be an answer to many problems. 
Great job and thank you! Awsome information.
bt
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imabkpr
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2007, 07:45:35 AM »

bt 
I have been using vinegar vapor for several years in my bee hives with excellent results. We use a mixture of 1 part acitic acid to 3 parts water this gives us a vinegar stength of 25% not 5% like you would buy out of a food store. This mixture is not sprayed on the bees. We turn 2 tbls of this vinegar mix into a vapor {through a machine called "cyclone"} and circulate it through the bee colony for 30 seconds. very simple and very, very affective.

I would like to ask why you wouldnt use "white" vinegar on your bees.

I dont see how "raw" could be any better, but am open to the added knowledge   Thanks  Charlie
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Finsky
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2007, 08:14:14 AM »


That is clear text. In what time of year you use it?
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