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Author Topic: beer and wine waste yeast in pollen patties  (Read 6210 times)
SteveSC
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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2007, 11:13:53 AM »

I have a free source for brewer's yeast after the beer is made.  The brewery normally just puts it down the drain...it's in a slurry form.  The owner said get all you want.. 

I read thru this post and maybe I missed it but I didn't see where that type of used yeast was endorsed.

Finsky said:
Quote
You must make huge amount of beer if you want to get yeast to bees from that system. Then you will never se a clear day.
  LOL - I can't decide if that's an endorsement or not...I think he's tried it before  grin. I hear ya Finsky...!

Since it'll be in slurry form I guess you could mix it with sugar syrup to feed them that way in a top feeder - maybe 2:1 yeast slurry to sugar or 1:1 yeast slurry to sugar...? You use it with soy flour to make patties also...

Any advise.....thanks.



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Steve in SC


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Jerrymac
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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2007, 11:29:24 AM »

Yeah I know what you mean about getting the answers. I think we should have a new policy around here. When there is a question being asked..... Like this one here....... Answer it first and then go about your explanations of the assumptions you've made about what was being asked.

After the beer is made can the yeast bee used for the bees.... Yes ... No... Seems so easy an answer don't you think?
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Finsky
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2007, 11:48:20 AM »


Since it'll be in slurry form I guess you could mix it with sugar syrup to feed them that way in a top feeder - maybe 2:1 yeast slurry to sugar or 1:1 yeast slurry to sugar...? You use it with soy flour to make patties also...

Any advise.....thanks.

In USA it has been developed juice like protein milk to bees during some years.  It is secret recipe I have heard. It is sure that if you give yeast syrup in feeder, I will not succeed. Protein content is too small. And what about if bees store it in combs for summer?

To Jerrymac: You can of course give yeast but how clever it is. I feeded dry yeast to hives  2 pound per hive during two months. As wet yeast it is much. 

« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 01:23:01 PM by Finsky » Logged
Jerrymac
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2007, 11:55:13 AM »

To Jerrymac: You can of course give yeast but how clever it is. I feeded dry yeast to hives  2 pound per hive during two months. As wet yeast it is much. 

I'm confused, was that a yes or a no?
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SteveSC
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2007, 12:23:11 PM »

Mmmmm.  I think it was a " yes " for me that I can use the left over brewer's yeast but there's not enough protein left in it to do any good.  But what does that mean...?

Finsky...you're too smart for our own good..... huh

I'll do some research on the protein level in left over brewer's yeast.  I would think it would still be a pretty high %....   
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Steve in SC


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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2007, 12:37:15 PM »

My original thought was "here's actual, active yeast, rather than freeze-dried.  In with them is some small amount of precipitated protein, as well as a bit of some other complex sugars beyond glucose."

Seeing as how 1.  Brewers yeast is apparently quite cheap at feedmills and 2.  You can use your own pollen, don't need only irradiated, the above question is much less significant....although I still can't help wondering if it would be better for the bees--maybe next winter I'll try a side-by-side......

And Finsky, I only brew a bit, but only hope to have 2-4 hives, also....so the thinking was I wouldn't NEED a huge amount of yeast.  I'm new, could very well be wrong, but that was the initial logic. 
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SteveSC
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2007, 01:17:48 PM »

Here's some information on " spent Brewers' yeast ".... it falls into a catagory called Distiller feeds used to feed livestock.  It looks like it might be what we're looking for.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh6.html

and another..

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/agap/frg/afris/Data/468.HTM




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Steve in SC


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Finsky
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2007, 01:25:58 PM »


I'm confused, was that a yes or a no?

NO, in Texas you need no yeast. You have all the time pollen enough.
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Finsky
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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2007, 01:29:38 PM »

Mmmmm.  I think it was a " yes " for me that I can use the left over brewer's yeast but there's not enough protein left in it to do any good.  But what does that mean...?

Finsky...you're too smart for our own good..... huh
 

You should give to bees a stuff where raw protein content is over 20% like in average pollen. If you dilute it with something, it has not.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2007, 01:34:46 PM »

NO, in Texas you need no yeast. You have all the time pollen enough.

Maybe South Texas but not up in the northern parts.

Now I will try one more time,

After the beer is made can the yeast be used for the bees? Yes or No.

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« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2007, 01:38:19 PM »

Hey folks!

I’ve been lurking, reading and learning here for a few months now. Thanks to everyone for their valuable input.

Since I am also a home brewer (and soon to be mead maker), I would like to give my input on the leftover yeast issue…

First of all, as far as the quantity goes, I can get almost a quart of nice thick yeast slurry after a 5 gallon batch of beer. That’s quite a bit of yeast, and if I need to drink extreme quantities to get more, so be it!

Next thing, this isn’t dead, waste yeast, it is very healthy, viable, vitamin rich yeast that simply ran out of food and dropped out of suspension. I usually reuse yeast for multiple batches.

Now, this means that it will consume any fermentable sugar it will find. I would not want to mix live hungry yeast with patties containing sugar or honey since the yeast will consume these and leave nothing but CO2 and alcohol for the bees. You may end up with puffy pollen cakes instead, similar to bread dough when it rises.

To kill the yeast (what a shame!), I would heat it in a pan to 170* for 15 minutes.

Hope this is somewhat useful.

-John

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SteveSC
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« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2007, 02:21:56 PM »

Look at this... 

Cotton Seed meal used for a protein supplement in animal feeds.  This is almost in a talc form - very finely ground.  40% crude protein content..... it might be something we can use.  This is readily avaliable at feed stores all over. 

http://www.admworld.com/laen/ahn/vegetableprotein.asp

One more time for JerryMac...

Quote
After the beer is made can the yeast be used for the bees? Yes or No.


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Steve in SC


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Finsky
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« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2007, 03:17:58 PM »

Look at this... 

Cotton Seed meal used for a protein supplement in animal feeds.  This is almost in a talc form - very finely ground.  40% crude protein content..... it might be something we can use.  This is readily avaliable at feed stores all over. 


Where you have seen it recommended to honey bees? 
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2007, 05:29:58 PM »

Here is a place that mentions cotton seed oil for bee feed

http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/Beefeeds.html
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SteveSC
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« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2007, 06:16:48 PM »


Scroll down this link about half way - look at the section " Background and prior Art ".  It make note of using several seed meals as substitutes for pollen - cottonseed meal is one of those mentioned..

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3995338.html

Finsky... What do you think...?  Any ideas on a recipe for patties using cottonseed meal. 
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Steve in SC


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Cindi
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« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2007, 11:57:19 PM »


In USA it has been developed juice like protein milk to bees during some years.  It is secret recipe I have heard.

I believe I know the protein milk you speak of.  I have it, it is called "Caspian Solution."  It is secret recipe.

Is this what you speak of?  Curious.  Greatest of days.  Cindi
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Finsky
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« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2007, 12:44:00 AM »


Finsky... What do you think...?  Any ideas on a recipe for patties using cottonseed meal. 


Seed oil is oil. I found that in many recipes.

Protein  depends totally on the constitution of amino acids how close it is the need of bees.

I may find in researches that some amino acids are limiting factors in cotton seed cale  "The limiting amino acids lysine, methionine, cystine, threonine and arginine  "  http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/ARTICLE/AGRIPPA/659_en-06.htm

FINE SUMMARY OF PROTEIN DIETS  AND EXPALANTION WE NEED  http://mark.asci.ncsu.edu/Nutrition/NutritionGuide/Protein%20and%20amino%20acids/protaa.htm


Soybean meal is usually the most economical source of high quality protein available to North Carolina swine producers. It is the only plant protein that compares with animal protein that compares with animal protein in terms of quality of amino acid content and ratio and ban be sued as the only protein source in most swine diets.
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SteveSC
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« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2007, 08:41:49 AM »

Finsky..

With the above information would you use the soybean meal as a pollen substitute..?  It looks like it's favored over the cottonseed meal for swine.  I just wonder how that equates to bee nutritition.

 
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Steve in SC


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Finsky
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« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2007, 04:36:43 AM »

Finsky..

.. for swine.  I just wonder how that equates to bee nutritition.



I do not going to explain these things. You should study what means essential amicoacids, protein syntesis, optimal nutrition of bees. They are all in internet. Protein is not important but composition of aminoacids. It is said here if you have basic knowledge. Quite few have and never mind if you don't  have.  http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/HBBiology/nutrition_supplements.htm

.
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SteveSC
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« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2007, 11:16:44 AM »

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I do not going to explain these things. You should study what means essential amicoacids, protein syntesis, optimal nutrition of bees. They are all in internet. Protein is not important but composition of aminoacids. It is said here if you have basic knowledge. Quite few have and never mind if you don't  have. 

I understand your point that is if you had to learn the information on your own so should we all. 

I thought this board was for all beekeepers regardless of yrs. of experience to share and learn from each other.  I've done alot of research in the short time I've kept bees - amino acids - pollen subs. - pollen patties  not being  subjects I've gotten to yet but I will.  You've had 40+ yrs. to learn and accumulate information, I can only assume some of the information you know you want to keep to yourself.  That's ok  - that's your business - I repect it.

You're asked alot of questions on this board as are a few others - MB - Brian - Ted - that's because ya'll know many times what the rest of us know. I nor anyone else wants to make a fatal mistake for our bees due to lack of knowledge.  Thanks any previous information you offered Finsky......it's appreciated.

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Steve in SC


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