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Author Topic: V. Mite Issue  (Read 10808 times)
Cindi
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« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2007, 09:03:17 AM »

Now Trot has said some interesting stuff that needs to be commented on and something that Kathyp said too.  First, I am going to comment on Trot's comment and then Kathyp's.  This is only my opinion.  His words follow:

"cause OK acid there is not for use in hives. Therefore is not sold as such!  Most of that stuff that they use is purchased in lumber yards and hardware stores  and is used for cleaning purposes and what not!?  I Have even read on one of the forums where keepers are buying OK meant for bleaching wood!?   I guess it never donned on them that perhaps - that is not the same OK, as used in other parts of the world for fighting varroa!?"

I agree with you Trot about putting deadly chemicals in the hive.  But there is a but.  There was a post where someone was asking where to get the O.A. and something about hard to find it.   So yes, but no. 

The form of oxalic acid that we have here that is approved by the organization that governs bee medications in Canada is not bad for bees, it only kills the mites.  This chemical would NOT be approved for bee use if it was detrimental in any way.  Oxalic acid is found in minute amounts in nature, for example, rhubarb leaves, not to mention many others. 

The oxalic acid that is APPROVED for use in bees in Canada is NOT THE SAME AS THE oxalic acid THAT IS USED IN MANY OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. That is the impression I get.  The O.A. used for example in the U.S. evidently is used for bleaching wood, cleaning purposes, etc.  This WOULD NOT BE THE FORM THAT IS APPROVED FOR USE with bees at all.  It must not be used.  No ifs, ands, or buts.

I was actually kind of stunned when I read in the post that oxalic acid (in the U.S.) is used for heavy duty cleaning and wood bleaching and the thought that this would be put into a hive scared the heck out of me.

I live close to a beekeeper (I don't personally know this person), who has not used any intervention of any sort to keep her bees healthy.  Now Steve has talked with her and it is evident that she is going to lose all her colonies...they are sick..from varroa and probably other things.  For whatever reason, she prefers to just let nature take its course.  I hopefully live far enough away from her bees that me trying to keep my bees healthy will work and I don't have to contend with her neglect of bees.  I feel bad for her neighbours.

Well, as far as I can see.  Because of the people like this, that do not keep healthy bees, they bring on disease to neighbouring beeyards.  She probably thinks that she is doing her bees a favour by not treating.  That is wrong.  Her sick bees are probably bringing different illness to any neighbouring colonies, and that is wrong.

I have read posts in some European countries, all beekeepers treat their colonies with "stuff", we'll call it that, AT THE SAME TIME.  that way, because they are all treated at the same time, all the disease of bee are kept under better control that way.

Kathyp.  YOu said that oxalic acid may be approved for use in hives in the U.S. one day.  That may be true, then I wonder if the concentration of the oxalic acid may be different or have a slightly different composition than what can be purchased for the cleaning, wood bleaching, etc.  That would be an interesting thing to discover, what any difference there is, if any, to the Canadian approved product.

I hope that I haven't opened an enormous can of worms, but if so, oh well.  Great day.  Cindi




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« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2007, 10:30:25 AM »


It is waste of time to argue with Trot. Let him keep his opinions. Only small cells may save Trots bees.

European Commission text: Oxalic cure and human health  -  oxalic acid residuals classification means that the substance is evaluated as not dangerous, and no residue limit is needed to protect the consumer.
 
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16374464 
 
http://www.neurobiologie.fu-berlin.de/menzel/Rademacher.html 

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Cindi
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« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2007, 10:42:12 AM »

Finsky, excellent sites.  Thanks.  It sounded like the MRL of O.A. has not yet been determined?

Great day.  Cindi

P.S.  I cannot wait for when I take the Bee Masters Short Course at our SFU University at the end of February.  I think that I will be learning so much about important biological aspects of apis meliferra that to me are extremely integral to becoming a good beekeeper.
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2007, 11:04:59 AM »

Quote
Kathyp.  YOu said that oxalic acid may be approved for use in hives in the U.S. one day.  That may be true, then I wonder if the concentration of the oxalic acid may be different or have a slightly different composition than what can be purchased for the cleaning, wood bleaching, etc.  That would be an interesting thing to discover, what any difference there is, if any, to the Canadian approved product.


people use the oxalic acid here.  they buy the wood bleach from the hardware store.  there was a pretty good article on it in "bee journal" (i think), but in spite of the fact that instructions and dilution were included, i did not find it clear.  i kept the article so that i could study it further and do some internet research.  seems that it would be pretty easy to make a mistake with the powder.

maybe someone here as used the wood bleach and has some experience?
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« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2007, 01:06:07 PM »

Cindi,
I agree with almost all what you brought up, except:

Quote
The form of oxalic acid that we have here that is approved by the organization that governs bee medications in Canada is not bad for bees, it only kills the mites.  This chemical would NOT be approved for bee use if it was detrimental in any way.  Oxalic acid is found in minute amounts in nature, for example, rhubarb leaves, not to mention many others.
Quote

Uranium is also plentiful in nature and does no harm... It is when man takes it and manipulates it - there starts  but a different story!

OK is only approved and safe for bees in certain concentration and/or certain application style/dose. Exceed this dose/concentration and your bees will be gone. Period!
If one does not pay attention to proper handling/instructions it can be very bad news for human involved - also.

I do not really care what beeks do. It is the education of new and emerging beekeepers that  is perhaps in jeopardy and/or lacking? That's what lifts my lid!  That is what this forums are intended for! IMO forum is not just a place where one can aspire to have the highest number of posts, or show off, or spread sum bull, just to pass the time of day.
A lot of newbies actually come here to learn - and learn right stuff they must. It is hard enough to give advice, cause of geographical, regional and meteorological differences... Well, I better end this, cause at least two probably already see red by now?!

It is a proven fact that ones a beek adopts a certain way of handling bees and has a at least mediocre success at it - there is nothing in the world, that will sway them from it in the future... And that is wrong!
IMHO, the smart ones will see trough the bull anyway and that is my solace.  Cause, no one person can stump ignorance and bullheadedness - all on ones' own.  But fight?  One can - to no end. . .

Wish you all the best Cindi and I'm sorry, what I hear about your bees...But don't worry, you will do just fine. You have more bee-sense than most people that I met or heard about in a long while...
Keep your head high, you have the right...

Regards,
Trot

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Cindi
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« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2007, 05:59:49 PM »

Trot, thank you for the words.  I agree with what you said mostly as well. I know what you say about typing and then erasing.  I do that quite a bit too, type a sentence and then think, oops, better change that and then retype something different.  It is a funny part of human nature to not want to say the wrong thing, most times.

Oxalic acid, the strength that is approved for use in Canada and EU must be carefully, and I mean very carefully measured if one is to use it in the hives.

For one.  The most important part that I see is that the bees must not be given over 50 ml MAXIMUM drizzled over the colony, no matter how many frames are covered by bees.  AND the drizzle must be given according to the frames of bees occupied.  FOR EXAMPLE:  ONLY 5 ml per frame covered.  So that would mean that if there are only 4 frames of bees, then ABSOLUTELY no more than 20 ml should be drizzled.

I know there is concern that people tend to become complacent about things and may apply too much, perhaps in too much of a hurry.  This is actually human nature, I know that.  The individual could only put the onus back on themselves if they do.   But it would be a shame that the bees fall prey to this.

The second point is important too. Like any kind of chemical, self-protection from the chemical is also important.  It is said that one should wear gloves, and face protection in case of any kind of spills.  I agree with this.  Acids are acids, no matter which way you look at it.

I have curiousity why some places have not approved certain bee medications, whereas other areas have.

Well, my two cents again, for what they are worth.  Great day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2007, 06:07:57 PM »

If you meet this kind, say hi from Finsky! It is only a bug and not worth of this discussion.




Finsky, right.  That is an absolutely hideous picture.  I presume it is the varroa destructor !!  (LOL).

I see that is an actual photograph.  I am going to look at it more closely.  It is probably even more ugly that I ever dreamed possible.  Imagine something like that clinging to your body.  Yikers!!!  Great day.
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2007, 04:13:51 AM »

Yes nasty little things.
I think this is one on the back of the bees head?  I noticed it in august when they were on this joe pye weed.

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Cindi
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« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2007, 08:27:40 AM »

Bee C.  Now that is a beautiful picture, I do not have Joe Pye Weed growing here, I hear that it is a great bee plant.  Considering it is a perennial, I will probably get an established plant from our local nursery, they have great selection.  I keep trying to get as many bee plants established here as I can.  Wonder if Morgan has something that might interest me?  If you talk to her, tell her to give me a call one day, give her my phone number, that is OK, not a secret.  Since I don't operate the nursery anymore, I am missing some of my old and devoted clients, she was one that came for years and years.  Too bad the thing on Texada Island didn't work out for her.  Did she ever tell you about her escapades there?  Ask her, it is a very interesting story.  I bet she would be a great candidate for becoming a beekeeper.

Ya, that is the varroa for sure, isn't it an ugly little thing.  Man, that bug bugs me.

"Joe-Pye Weed or Trumpetweed (Eupatorium fistulosum) is a flowering plant in the family Asteraceae, native to eastern North America, in southeast Canada and throughout the eastern and central United States. It is a herbaceous perennial plant growing to 1.5-3 m (5-10 feet) tall, found in moist, rich soil alongside ditches and marshes, or in wet forests. It flowers from mid-summer to the first frosts, makes an attractive backdrop in garden plots, and is very attractive to butterflies, bees, and other nectar-feeding insects"

Great day.  Cindi

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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2007, 12:40:24 PM »

Thanx for input. I'll wait until its warmer. O.A. is on;y available as wood bleach here in the states. Is this the same acid, or is it diff't? American bee Journal does  a long article about O.A. an referances wood bleach. They do not advise as to whether they are the same as sold for use w/ bees.
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« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2007, 12:51:06 PM »



my collegue Walter Haefeker, German Association of Professional Beekeepers, wishes me to inform you about the German bee monitoring.

Greetings, Klaus


After 2 years of cooperation the German Association of Professional Beekeepers – DBIB is now about to withdraw from the bee monitoring project. The decisive factor behind this decision is that despite repeated attempts by the DBIB, the German chemical industry refuses to have the investigations cover plant protection products to the same extent as other factors.
After several beekeepers' representatives expressed their astonishment at this approach, the issue was resolved by the company Bayer itself carrying out laboratory investigations - which all produced no finding.
In the second year the German chemical industry completely did away with any investigations regarding this issue. Instead, it was decided that the samples should be frozen, and that these should then only be investigated for plant protection product residues when required.
This meant that this issue had been sidelined. Instead, in the project budget big cuts were made regarding funding for all possible investigations into illnesses afflicting bees.
Consequently a budget item for independent laboratory investigations on plant protection products no longer existed!
There was also no research work to determine which plant protection products are deployed in the immediate vicinity of honey bee colonies. Hence, it can easily be said that targeted investigations of specific plant protection products are not possible.
And this allowed one to happily concentrate on the most important part of the project: the press work.
Here really thorough work was done. Here nothing was sidelined. The doors of the Federal Press Conference were suddenly wide open. The press jungle was full of life. Lectures were delivered. Deutschlandfunk started reporting even while the project members were still engaged in a meeting. Deutschlandfunk even reported that the monitoring had shown that genetic engineering posed no danger to beekeeping, even though this was not even the subject of the investigations.
But if one uses money to pacify the beekeeping front, one naturally has to try and maximise the PR benefit.
We have tried to obtain a recording of the broadcast.
Deutschlandfunk claims it does not have a recording because the broadcast was produced as an external production commissioned by the German Farmers' Association. The German Farmers' Association claims it knows nothing about this.
The recording is still missing today!
The DBIB once again expressed its criticism at the so-called "round table" on 9th November. This only resulted in this not even being mentioned in the records drawn up by the German Farmers' Association.
What one does not want to accept is simply not mentioned. All this has fuelled our mistrust, and it raises the suspicion that the bee monitoring was only intended to keep beekeepers quiet and to give the chemical industry time to continue unhindered in using the plant protection products that were the focus of criticism.
And there are enough reasons for this.
With regard to the chemical industry one can expect that no money is spent which does not indirectly or directly contribute towards the company's profit. Company law specifically forbids corporate groups carrying out charitable operations. In such a case the shareholders would be able to sue the board of directors for the incorrect use of funds. But during the course of the project there were no complaints about it being financed. Every suggestion that substances which were dangerous for bees should be treated in the same way as they are in France can be brushed off by referring to the ongoing investigations. This secures millions in sales over the years. Here it is certainly worthwhile investing some petty cash.
Against this background it is hardly surprising how easy it is to see through the whole thing if the representative of the chemical industry has already prepared the press statement for the round table on his laptop even before the meeting has actually taken place, and presents this press statement as a general absolution for the financial backers, presents many other causes and points to very good honey harvests this year, without a single word about the reservations expressed by the representatives of the beekeepers at the "round table".
When the issue of new substances for the treatment of rape seeds was raised, another objective of the round table was clearly revealed.
The representative of Syngenta was annoyed that the beekeepers had directly contacted the respective responsible authorities regard the issue of a lack of licences for ELADO. They argued that such issues should be resolved at the "round table". Otherwise he would not be able to justify to his company the provision of funding for the monitoring project.
With regard to the bee institutes this raises the question of why everything was accepted without any criticism?
Firstly for the institutes the bee monitoring means that additional funding is available.
Naturally the suspicion that this project is simply one purely financed by the chemical industry as a favour is very upsetting for the participating institutes.
Therefore it is pointed out that the monitoring programme is not just financed by the chemical industry, but that the institutes now also make a roughly equal contribution through their own work.
However, the institutions do not carry out this work in their spare time but, instead with employees and resources that are actually financed from other sources and which were earmarked for other purposes.
Here it is justifiable to ask what proportion of the EU financial support for beekeepers the institutions received within the framework of EU regulation no. 1221, and why the beekeepers do not receive this money? And if the beekeepers demand that plant protection products should be completely included in investigations, why is this money not spent for this purpose?
It is an artificial strategy on the part of the chemical industry to settle costs for the project annually instead of providing the funding at the beginning of the project.
This approach enables the project to be abandoned at any time should it, for instance, produce undesirable results. This generates a conflict of interests between the participating institutions: if there are any unwanted results the money could possibly no longer be available. What remains here is a "bad aftertaste".
The institutions also regard it as normal for the next press campaigns and series of lectures to be planned with a great effort and military precision although this project has up to now produced very little that could justify such a fuss. However, one has to make a big fuss again every year, because this is the perfect way to distract from the original issue at stake.
The accusation levelled at the institutions is not that they manipulate results but that they do not vehemently support the beekeepers and demand that there is a balanced investigation in all directions, which also includes plant protection products.
The institutions proudly report that the German project is really respected in Europe. Colleagues from other countries would say it would not be possible to do this sort of thing with the beekeepers' associations in France.
From discussions with French beekeepers we know how the monitoring is really regarded there. At a meeting of various European beekeepers' associations in Paris to address the issue of plant protection products, which COPA wanted to prevent, our colleagues politely but forcefully said the following to us:
"Only in Germany are the beekeepers naive enough to get involved with this PR strategy of the chemical industry. You not only make yourselves a laughing stock, but you also weaken the position of beekeepers in other EU countries."
The worries of our European colleagues are justified. The Europeanisation of the German bee monitoring is already being advanced, because the results of this project are also to be used for getting plant protection products out of the firing line in other countries. We are certainly not doing our European colleagues any favours if we use ourselves as a fig leaf for a project whose structure does not guarantee result-oriented research.
Naturally we beekeepers should be always interested in real monitoring being carried out. As mentioned above, our association was actually the driving force behind the initiative for monitoring. We must continue to support a project that is exclusively financed by public funding, so that plausible results are possible. We must ensure that the bee institutes are released from this serious conflict of interests and are able to work independently.
We are not intending to have one or another plant protection product banned. Our goal must be to learn what we ourselves can do better in the way we operate and what people in the cultural landscape – where our bees live and should be able to survive – can do better in order that the many factors which make our bees increasingly weak can gradually be improved in a step-by-step approach.
Although a far-reaching reform of the licensing procedures for plant protection products is not the only issue at stake, it is an important one.
In its current form the German bee monitoring does not help us any further here, but is instead designed to hinder us. We have watched it for two years. Many members of our association were involved in it. We showed our good will and displayed a great amount of trust in advance, because although we had considerable doubts about it we urged our members to participate. Perhaps one thing that we could criticise ourselves for is the fact that we waited so long before underlining our position in this way.
Unfortunately we have not been able to keep the overwhelming influence of the chemical industry within reasonable limits. In the interests of all beekeepers we will therefore have to recommend our members to terminate their participation in this project if our demands, which have been known for a while, are not implemented at long last.

Therefore we would hereby like to reiterate our list of demands:


In investigating the causes all possible factors should be treated in the same way. If we beekeepers do something wrong we want to recognise this, so that we can improve our ways of operating. If there are new pathogens, we want to find them and learn how to control them. If plant protection products weaken our bees, we want to know this and wish to develop a strategy to minimise damage together with chemical industry, the German Farmers' Association and the authorities. Here we are aware that plant protection products are required in farming, but we would also like to point out that organic farming illustrates that it cannot be argued that there is always no alternative to using the approach adopted by the chemical industry.
If it is regarded as worthwhile to record the whole spectrum of possible bee illnesses on a routine basis, this also has to apply to examining the presence of the most important plant protection products. If it is regarded as worthwhile to record the whole spectrum of possible bee illnesses on a routine basis, this also has to apply to examining the presence of the most important plant protection products.
Numerous scientific works have illustrated that an impairment of the efficiency of the bees occurs long before the adult bees die. If the flying bees of a bee colony are disoriented, this means that one of the functions crucial to their survival is disrupted. The sublethal effect can already be observed when there are concentrations by which the presence of the respective plant protection product can be proved but not quantified. In the investigations carried out by Bayer results which do not reach the quantifiable level are not taken into consideration. However, all results for which the presence of specific plant protection products can be proved should be taken into account in aetiology.
The investigations must be carried out using the analysis methods which currently have the lowest possible levels for proving and quantifying.
Manufacturers of plant protection products have a conflict of interests, and therefore should not be regarded as an independent investigation laboratory. In the monitoring project sufficient resources must be provided to allow investigations of plant protection products by an independent laboratory which we trust.
In the investigation of the honey bee colonies the agricultural environment must also be examined to determine the type of cultures and plant protection methods which are used.
Transparency: an approved report should be published on the Internet and in the press. An offensive PR campaign going beyond such publications is then only worthwhile if it is aimed at communicating results that can be practically implemented on a broad basis. This was not the case in the past.
The fact that this project is being carried out should not be allowed to delay the implementation of improvement possibilities that we are already aware of. If – as the chemical industry likes to claim – varroa mites are the main reason why the bees are dying, then it is incomprehensible why:
a) we don't have any support for the licensing of 85% formic acid,
b) after a long struggle and a considerable delay only a method using oxalic acid treatment is allowed,
c) the use of varroosis treatments, which involves the problem of residues accumulating and resistance building up, is still supported,
d) inflated bureaucracy in the application of European law on animal medicines for beekeeping is not prevented,
e) specialist consultants' training for beekeepers has to be restricted to outdated methods because other methods are not authorised.
If the chemical industry is really convinced that the problem here is caused by varroa, then it would be advisable to support the beekeepers' approach concerning the question of substances for varroa treatment.

There has also been no progress regarding the methods used in the investigations for determining the dangers for bees during the licensing process for plant protection products.
The figures contained in the statistics of the Biologische Bundesanstalt für Land- und Forstwirtschaft (Federal Biological Research Centre for Agriculture and Forestry – BBA) on the extent of the damage to bees in Germany only appear to show a decrease because there is an increase in undetected cases.
As already pointed out, the above demands are certainly not new for the organisers of the monitoring project. Unfortunately they were not implemented over the past two years to win the trust of beekeepers.
Moreover, plenty of time has been wasted in addressing the issues which we are really interested in, and money has been diverted to bee monitoring. We therefore recommend that you act according to the principle of Erich Kästner:
"Never sink so low that you will even drink the mess they pull you through!"

Walter Haefeker, German Association of Professional Beekeepers

[ January 20, 2007, 05:11 AM: Message edited by: Klaus Maresch ]

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Klaus Maresch
Drachenfelsstraße 92
D-53639 Koenigswinter
http://www.honighaeuschen.de

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Finsky
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« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2007, 12:51:35 PM »

If weather continues his way maybe brood will vanish from hives . At least they cannot feed many larvae.

http://www.wunderground.com/US/NJ/Cherry_Hill.html

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« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2007, 12:59:42 PM »


I did not get what is the idea of Klaus Maresch's letter. What is backgroud and what is the meaning?
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« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2007, 01:06:16 PM »

If weather continues his way maybe brood will vanish from hives . At least they cannot feed many larvae.

http://www.wunderground.com/US/NJ/Cherry_Hill.html



Yes we now have winter Finsky. Are you suggesting I do soemthing while they are clustered? I thought not? As mentioned before, I just want to educate myself to the optionsd and timing of those options. I am hoping i dont lose honey supers by needing to medicate during a flow and wnat to be done w/ treatments before the early flow is all.
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« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2007, 04:26:40 PM »

Quote
Therefore we would hereby like to reiterate our list of demands

how interesting

can you give us the short version?  that seemed very convoluted.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2007, 06:33:25 PM »

Quote
Therefore we would hereby like to reiterate our list of demands

how interesting

can you give us the short version?  that seemed very convoluted.
I agree, it was a difficult read, especially with the formatting.  The jist of what I read was the chemical companies had stonewalled the progress of identifying problems that develop over the use of their products with regards to bees (Trot, correct me if I'm wrong or misguiding).  Fascinating, to see the same bs going on in another country that goes on here all the time.  Fascinating and disheartening.  Big business is everywhere  rolleyes

Don't those idiots realize if they kill the bees the plants will die, too?

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« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2007, 07:42:45 PM »

I agree, it is a bit difficult to get the meaning.  Reinbeau you got it right on.
For those who follow the fight against the chem's it is not so hard, cause they already know the course.

Basically, German Association of Professional Beekeepers were partners in the research and various study schemes. It made for great PR ... (naively thinking of better chance in determining what goes and what doesn't in the world of poisons)  But soon, they too, had realized that their bees were sick and dying than that partnership now turned against them. They were only pawns in a game...
Most, if not all, of the findings were lost or are off limit to public eye! When seeking compensation for lost stock?  Or trying to determine the cause - chem companies are not at fault. One can not prove it, one way - or the other. The blame is, as always, thrown on varroa! Or/and, beekeepers self medicating!?  Like it or not!

(Reason for this post was to see the other side of the coin - to posted report about German research posted a few days back.)

The only EU country which has successfully litigated this issue is France, where they outlawed the use of certain chems' which were suspected of doing harm.(Proven by impartial research) Wouldn't you know - their problems suddenly disappeared! (Varroa stayed though...)

It is the same scenario with recent finding in Alberta, Canada where they found that a common medicine clears-up, some of the toughest cancers, like lung and brain - to name just two...  The use on humans will most likely never see the light of day!
Cause?
It is not something which some big corporation has in its domain. No patent/copyright exists, so nobody makes no money. 100 million is needed to licence it. . .
Nobody is willing to pay the bill! No return. . . .(Bill Gates, Warren Buffet - take note!)
Not likely... 
So, people will continue to die needlessly...
Same has happened 3 times previously. Life saving drugs have not reached the market, cause they could cut into someones' profits.

When they can juggle with human lives, at will?  You think, that the rules of the game would change, when coming to bees?  ?  ?

Just something to think about, before casting stones.  .  .  .
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Finsky
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« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2007, 12:06:24 AM »

.
KONASDAD has some bugs in his hives, and now we forgot him and started kick upside down European chemical industry -
Now I got the idea. Wait to evening. I must sell my stocks first.
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2007, 02:32:47 PM »

Sometimes going off topic is fun. Yes I still have some indicia[/i] of mites and want to be prepared for spring. Like everyone else, I want big, healthy, and productive hives which dont swarm. I know, a lot to ask. What should I treat w/ and when?
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"The more complex the Mind, the Greater the need for the simplicity of Play".
jillr0
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« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2007, 02:50:08 PM »

with a tbh has any one had to treat the hive for mites.or any of the other pests.
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