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Author Topic: V. Mite Issue  (Read 10415 times)
Finsky
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2007, 12:41:10 AM »


If you feel that you want to treat now, I would put the question out there on the forum whether to drizzle over the cluster.  The small amount that is drizzled is too small to chill the bees.  You only have the inner cover off for less than a minute to drizzle, so I don't think that the bees would be overly chilled.



hmmmmmmmmm.  If situation is this what it is, that there are much brood and it is cold near freezing point, I cannot se any sense in doing just now. To feel better is not a reason to do actions to bees. Of course everybody does what he does but on advice level I am not going to give psychiarist advices.

Mites can be handled later in spring or summer. It is not so fatal thing.  People do too much and too complicated things for mites. Mite is not a proplem if you do right things. Half of forum discussions handle mites and it is ten times too much.

Take it easy and  kill the mites when it is right time.

.
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BEE C
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2007, 05:19:54 AM »

Cindi/Finsky,
Thanks for your opinions.  Having read both your posts and gleaned a lot of information which I consider top rate, I value your views/opinions/comments.  I feel I may have under treated with oxalyic trickle, having done it only twice this year about a week apart each time.  Ron says to do it once, although he knows of a successful beekeeper in the peace river area that does it several times each fall/early winter.  I wonder about each particular areas mite load.  I have a neighbour whose hives are in the process of dying out from no treatment/management in two years, as you know cindi, and wonder if I should treat again.  I think I will.  I have screened bottoms and slide out tray homebuilt hive stands and was wondering about soaking pads and simply leaving them on the slide in mite tray below the SBB.  I thought it was more than a little weird that both hives pulled full pads of oxalyic acid out without chewing them up.  I don't think the bees will be disturbed all that much from cluster with pads below them.  The bottom entrance on both hives is tiny, with the upper entrances on the inner cover used to displace moist air.  Man there is a lot of vapour visible coming out of the upper entrances.  The hives are both still slightly buzzing, dry from being under roof, not insulated, but no more big bee loses, I was worried when our first snow hit and I could see dead bees in the snow, but there is dead bees 20 or so each snowfall, brood cycles expiring.  There is a lot of posts on varroa, but for me who has never taken bees through a winter, its helpful to read/watch posts and learn what people do in different locales.  Thanks, steve. grin  Here's the hexagon 100% pure Rainforest Apiary beeswax candles I made for christmas gifts this year.
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Finsky
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2007, 06:59:37 AM »

oxalyic trickle, having done it only twice this year about a week apart each time. 

That is harmfull. I don't even try.  It takes sveral weeks when mites die  for treatment.


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Cindi
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2007, 08:50:58 AM »

Steve, OK, read this post after I read the other one that I responded to.  You need to phone me.  I am going to PM you with my phone number.  Call when you have a spare moment.  I can make myself available anytime to talk about stuff.  I am not an expert, but I think that there is a problem with what you are doing.

I don't get what purpose the oxalic acid pads serve that you want to put on the bottomboard.  This would serve no purpose whatsover that I can see.  The O.A. sugar trickle must be TRICKLED on the bees, sitting a pad soaked on the bottom of the board is redundant.  And, there is no need to do the treatment one week apart either.  We need to talk.  Are you working now?  How did that fellow make out that you and your wife were taking to the hospital?  Great day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Finsky
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« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2007, 12:01:57 PM »



I don't get what purpose the oxalic acid pads serve that you want to put on the bottomboard. 

Formic acid pad works but  oxalic is not used that way. For formic acid you need summer temperature.
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BEE C
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2007, 04:53:38 AM »

My mistake! I wrote that post late last night... embarassed I was wondering if an oxalyic trickle or formic acid pads under the SBB would help eliminate a high mite load.  I bought some new sticky boards to do a mite drop count, and am watching the weather.  Beacause the hives are full south exposure in an insulated hut, they are probably a few degrees warmer than outside air.  The temp is supposed to go up this week to 8 or 9.  If the temp got close to 12-15 daytime temp I would consider the formic acid pads.
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wtiger
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2007, 05:59:22 AM »

Sorry to get off topic a little; but I keep hearing about oxylic acid, how effective it is, and how easy it is to apply, but I have never seen it for sale marked as such.  Where do you get this stuff?
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Cindi
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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2007, 09:14:05 AM »

Sorry to get off topic a little; but I keep hearing about oxylic acid, how effective it is, and how easy it is to apply, but I have never seen it for sale marked as such.  Where do you get this stuff?


Oxalic acid is VERY EFFECTIVE when it is used in the cold times when there is little or no brood present.  It is easy to apply.  There appears to be two methods.  Vapourizing with an aparatus (takes only a moment apparently) and sugar water mixed with oxalic acid trickling, which again only takes a minute per hive.  Both are effective and both have advantages, it is a personal preference how they are applied.  Applied during COOL temperatures.

I do not know where you get oxalic acid.  I received mine from my course instructor.  O.A. has been approved for honeybee use in Canada.  I know people talk about "approved" but apparently it is important to some I guess.  Go on this forum, there is a forum that talks about these products for the bees.

You should "google" O.A.  and this will give you good information.  There are many sites.  Beekeepers worldwide do oxalic treatment in fall and formic acid in spring.  Seems to be the chosen times for these two products.  They are both found naturally in the nature world.  Formic acid, is even found in honey in miniscule amounts.  Michael Bush has an excellent site on all stuff relating to bees.  I have not checked this particular topic out though but he may have some information there.  His site follows:

http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

Again, it is excellent site and Michael must have spent alot of time working to make it user friendly.

Like Finksy was saying, formic acid is used when the temperatures outside are very warm.  The way the formic acid works is:

The pads are generally placed on the outside wall of the hive or attached to the face of the end frame.  When the weather (and temperature inside the hive gets very warm) the fumes are released from the pad.  The fumes being heavier than air sink to the bottom of the hive, the bees basically get annoyed by the smell and fan like crazy to rid the colony of the stink.  This is what is supposed to happen.  The fumes are fanned about the hive and it eliminates the varroa mite very quickly.   The pads are left in for designated periods of time and the amount of pads are all designated.  This I will not go into because there is information on the internet and you need to ascertain your mite levels, or not, depending upon what you want to do.  Many do not bother to count mites, that is alot of work.  But it does make the amount of formic acid pads required per hive more exact.

Always remember, you must not have any treatment of chemicals in your colonies for a minimum 45 days before the anticipated honeyflow begins, if you are planning on harvesting honey from that colony.  THIS IS INTEGRAL to clean honey.  There must be no contaminants present in the hive to contaminate honey.

I don't know if this helps, but I hope so. 
I am sure that others may have great information too.  Great day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Cindi
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« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2007, 09:29:55 AM »

My mistake! I wrote that post late last night... embarassed I was wondering if an oxalyic trickle or formic acid pads under the SBB would help eliminate a high mite load.  I bought some new sticky boards to do a mite drop count, and am watching the weather.  Beacause the hives are full south exposure in an insulated hut, they are probably a few degrees warmer than outside air.  The temp is supposed to go up this week to 8 or 9.  If the temp got close to 12-15 daytime temp I would consider the formic acid pads.


Steve, forget the formic acid pads for awhile.  It is too cold!!!! It won't work and you will be disturbing the bees too much by going in there to install them on the side wall or the face of #10 frame.  The bees are probably mostly clustered and it just won't work.  March around here would be about the earliest I would even consider it.

Go to this site that I list below if you need further information on the Mite Gone formic acid pads.  This fellow is the inventor of the Mite Gone pad, he is an older man that lives in Kelowna and has a pretty good handle on our B.C. weather.  He is in South America right now "teaching" about the uses of formic acid worldwide.  There is some really good information on formic acid there.

http://www.mitegone.com/

Did you get my PM?

Yes, the O.A. would help with the mite load if it is heavy, but again, I don't think you should do it right now.  Wait.  I have mailed Ron and will get his opinion on when you should drizzle the acid in our particular climate.  He has not corresponded back to me, I think that there are some conferences going on somewhere that he may be involved in.  So, just hang tight until I can get a response from a knowledgeable beekeeper of our climate in our particular area.  Great day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
kathyp
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2007, 11:59:48 AM »

Oxalic acid is not illegal, it's just not approved for use in hives, in the US, yet.  probably will be soon.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Trot
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« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2007, 01:18:15 PM »


Two days ago I wrote a reply to what is being discussed here - but I erased it. As I usually do, I was waiting for those who with great know-how and authority govern the dispersal of knowledge to those in need or/and willingness to absorb all that those throw before them. That until now has not happened - perhaps not willing to show own cards?
Today I will chance it - cause I don't really care if they, or others, like it or not...

It amazes me to no end, how bluntly this Oxalic stuff goes on?! Not just on this site, but also on all others!  Info is freely passed, from under one's fingers, to the next hand, which is anxiously awaiting to punch some buttons on the keyboard!

Last I heard, oxalic use in US is still not approved?!

Hope you are all familiar with a recent roomer that a loss of 35,000 colonies has occurred to one keeper - worlds biggest?! (He was already fined $14,000 for illegal use of that stuff!)
And all this said: Why are so many beeks surprised when they find themselves without bees?
One thing is clear to me - it sure makes for sure and steady business with packages and nucks, come Spring...

I should keep out of this, cause, I do not use chem or any other treatment, so I have no right to knock it... But it don't take no rocket scientist to know that one does not stick poisons in ones hives "just to help out?"
Help out what? Who?

One good rule of thumb is, I believe:  Read instructions and follow them to a " T "!  They are there for a reason - legal stuff or not!
I would suggest that our beekeeping friends south of the boarder don't have the luxury of having the instruction booklets, cause OK acid there is not for use in hives. Therefore is not sold as such!  Most of that stuff that they use is purchased in lumber yards and hardware stores  and is used for cleaning purposes and what not!?  I Have even read on one of the forums where keepers are buying OK meant for bleaching wood!?   I guess it never donned on them that perhaps - that is not the same OK, as used in other parts of the world for fighting varroa!?

Poor bees! Is what I have to say...

And to threat them while they are in a cluster? Treated twice already - in last two weeks and "feel is not enough?"
Perhaps somebody forgot to tell them about that elusive sheet of white-sticky paper and varoa count? And how important that is..?!

How does one "feel" when is enough?  Honestly..?  I would like to know? In my 52 years with bees, I don't know much and I know it...
If good Lord lets mi keep bees for much longer, I may some day have a need to use OK, or some other gunk!?  Who knows. .?

One thing that I know already, though - is that I will never in my lifetime, stick some poison under my bees, when they are in a cluster, even if God himself tels me that "it won't disturb them much...")  And especially not, if I by some strange gift of nature - "feel" - that they don't have enough...
I can say more, but this is basically all I wanted to get of my chest...

Now bring out your Louisville sluggers you all. . . . . . .

Regards,
Trot
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Finsky
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« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2007, 02:22:53 PM »


Trot, you over react now clearly. Of course you keep your opinions but it has nothing to do with real information.
Of course it is poison but to mites, like other stuffs. That is the idea, but not poison to bees or humans.
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kathyp
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« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2007, 03:49:46 PM »

Quote
even if God himself tels me that "it won't disturb them much...")


leave God out of it.   Lips Sealed
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Finsky
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« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2007, 04:33:03 PM »

If you meet this kind, say hi from Finsky! It is only a bug and not worth of this discussion.

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Trot
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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2007, 04:49:08 PM »

Quote
leave God out of it.
Quote

Thank you and don't you worry about Him none.
He and I have a special relationship, something you know absolutely nothing about!
In the sixties I faced devil in the face for a few of years and on the end of each day He safely brought me home - each and every time...
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BEE C
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« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2007, 04:52:41 PM »

Wow, talk about drug interventions... grin Sorry to have started such a row over drugs and bees!  My post was all mixed up, due to doing too many things at once, I was posting pictures and writing emails, and reading posts at the same time too early in the morning.  For clarity...I put apistan strips in once all the honey was extracted, and left them in for just under a month.  Then I did two treatments of formic acid pads over the top bars about a week apart each treatment.  Then I waited till it was just before regular freezing temps to do an oxalic trickle application.  I bought the oxalic acid from my instructor, although it is available from any pharmacy.  The 24 hour mite drop on the sticky boards seems to be ten mites at the moment so according to some of the posts I've read its ok for now.  Cindi I did check out mitebgone site and found it very interesting.  I had drug names mixed up in my old post so I meant that ron had said he knows of a beekeeper that does several formic acid treatments with great success.  So after all of this fuss, the sticky board numbers say no need for a treatment right now anyway.  This original post had me wondering if now would be a good time for a mite treatment so as to minimize early spring brood harm.  I'll call you cindi, take care.  p.s. Right on finsky! HOW did? a little post on bee drugs turn to a post on god?  Does that mean this post is born again?  evil
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kathyp
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« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2007, 05:41:23 PM »

Quote
something you know absolutely nothing about!

interesting that you know enough about me to make such a statement.  don't get your little shorts in a knot about it. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Cindi
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« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2007, 06:39:39 PM »

Ooops!!!  Too much information, must process, then maybe comment.  Great day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Trot
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« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2007, 06:51:53 PM »



Words can't cut you. Ward only for steel. Fight only steel."  -Wyborn Amnell (Sword of Truth)

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kathyp
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« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2007, 07:43:08 PM »

you can read, and just maybe....you have a sense of humor.  well played.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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