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Author Topic: Follow Up: I never get the normal ones.  (Read 2246 times)
Understudy
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« on: January 15, 2007, 11:25:56 PM »

I guess if I insist on being a different type of beekeeper I will get the different type of requests.

I have had a request to remove a beehive from a compost bin. The compost bin is a black plastic container about 30" high and 24" in diameter at the base. The bees have been living in there for a while. There are probably 20,000+ bees in this one. It is a very healthy well established hive.

Here are the difficulties:
I am stubborn I want to remove these with the queen. Let me be specfic I want to make sure I get the queen and keep her healthy.

I cannot open the lid on the bin without destroying the comb.

If I try to take the whole compost bin the comb will break off and the bees will get hurt  possibly including the queen.

The hive is about a half mile from where I live.

So I had a brainstorm. Translation, I may have found either the best way or the most ridiculous way to do this.

I am going to raise the compost bin very carefully and place it on a stand so that the top of the compost bin is 72"(1.8m) above the ground level. I am then going to make sure I have a couple of hive boxes and queen excluder(this about the only time I use one). I will then stand on the inside of the compost bin and look for the queen. I am thinking a co2 respirator will be used here. When I find the queen I put her in the hive boxes with the excluder and place those boxes under the compost bin for 24 hours.

I figure after 24 hours most of the bees will follow the queen into the hive boxes. I would then cut away the comb and place it in frames and add them to the hive boxes. I would then secure the hive boxes and move them to my place.

Once at my place I would put branches in front of the hive and force a reorientation.

As I read this it doesn't even sound easy.

Here are some thumbnail pictures you can look at including my drawing of my evil plan.



Picture from a small bottom opening in the compost bin.

A photograph I took by placing the camera in the small hole in the bottom and facing the camera up.

Another photograph from the bottom.



Well constructive criticism is welcome, good advice is apreciated. And for those can't get up from the floor because the stomach hurts from laughing so hard. Well you can post also I guess.

I am have a new post in this thread with new pictures.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 09:57:01 PM by Understudy » Logged

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2007, 12:01:40 AM »

So the thing is made of Plastic??

The comb doesn't cover the hole top as your drawing indicates you might stand inside of it.

You will have to cut comb before you find the queen.

If you don't want to save the plastic container cut out the side.

Something I did with a bathroom floor. I used a skill saw to cut out a square section where I calculated the hive to be. After screwing on a couple of 2x4s for handles, the wife and I lifted the whole thing up and placed it into a large wooden box like a hive body. I had used a long hand saw to run down where I cut the floor to separate the comb from the floor joist, but I failed to do it on one side where I thought it wouldn't be attached to anything, so I ended up breaking some off. Other wise it worked great. You might try something like that if you can cut the side away and place the whole brood area in tact into a hive body. Leave it there a few days and they might attach it to the side of the box. Then take it home and work at you leisure.

Just some ideas off the wall. 
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Finsky
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2007, 12:09:09 AM »

Is it possible to arrange somehow this:

Put beebox over the combs or under those combs.
Put into box combs and one sheet of open brood.
Bees rise to take care of brood and soon queen is there laying.
When part of bees and queen is in upper box, you may operate the rest.

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Understudy
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2007, 12:43:03 AM »

So the thing is made of Plastic??
Yes, it is made of plastic.
Quote
The comb doesn't cover the hole top as your drawing indicates you might stand inside of it.
The comb doesn't cover the whole top maybe 30% of the top.
Quote
You will have to cut comb before you find the queen.
I figured I might have to get a few pieces out of the way but I hope I can do a minimal amount of disruption and just be paitent and see if I can spot her.
Quote
If you don't want to save the plastic container cut out the side.
I thought about it but I will cause all the comb to break off if I cut the box due to the vibrations.
Quote
Something I did with a bathroom floor. I used a skill saw to cut out a square section where I calculated the hive to be. After screwing on a couple of 2x4s for handles, the wife and I lifted the whole thing up and placed it into a large wooden box like a hive body. I had used a long hand saw to run down where I cut the floor to separate the comb from the floor joist, but I failed to do it on one side where I thought it wouldn't be attached to anything, so I ended up breaking some off. Other wise it worked great. You might try something like that if you can cut the side away and place the whole brood area in tact into a hive body. Leave it there a few days and they might attach it to the side of the box. Then take it home and work at you leisure.

Just some ideas off the wall. 

Thanks for the advice. I am still working out some details on this. What you say makes a great deal of sense.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Understudy
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2007, 12:44:33 AM »

Is it possible to arrange somehow this:

Put beebox over the combs or under those combs.
Put into box combs and one sheet of open brood.
Bees rise to take care of brood and soon queen is there laying.
When part of bees and queen is in upper box, you may operate the rest.



I would love to be able to do it that way but they are on the side of the bin and not center.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Finsky
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2007, 01:32:26 AM »


 they are on the side of the bin and not center.


It needs only installation to put extra holes close. Bees will find your box.

I would do that:

I woud take compost bin hive off  several yards. Then normal beebox on site and brood combs there. Most of bees fly to new box.

When bees are fewer, it is easier to take combs off in pieces. I know that they are weak and do not stand horizontal movement.

Last summer I transported with sedan nucs where bees have made combs in inner cover. They broke down during transporting.

.
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mick
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2007, 01:56:55 AM »

What about cutting out sections of the wall? using a carton cutter, small chainsaw?
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Finsky
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2007, 02:47:24 AM »


Compost chamber may be 10 times valuable than the colony. It seems more easier than wild bee hives usually.
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2007, 10:02:12 AM »

my husband liked your drawing.  he thinks we are all nuts.   cheesy 
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2007, 01:44:54 PM »

If you can destroy the container, then I'd suggest cutting the side out with a skil saw.  Lots of noise and probably angry bees but shouldn't cause enough vibration to knock comb off. 

I can't imagine that there is enough room in there for a head, torso, and two arms to move as well as a beehive.

It could work, but I think that if there is any brood left behind there will be bees to stay to tend to it, unless you could knock them all down and disorient them and the bees in the new hive are fanning.
I would doubt that all the bees would just follow the queen away from their home, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong (ie that is opinion not fact)...

-rick

PS Kathyp, your husband is correct.
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2007, 01:54:24 PM »

Since the comb goes all the way to the bottom of the bin, I would turn the compost bin upside down and then putting a hive body with some brood on top.   Seal off all holes except an entrance in the hive body.  The queen will work her way up into the hive body.
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sean
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2007, 05:09:50 PM »

for my 2 cents worth i think cutting the side is your best bet. that 2 ft diametr doesn't seem like enough space to work in
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2007, 08:41:34 PM »

Wow,

I like the idea of simply flipping the hive over and sealing the top with some plywood cut so that a hive body will sit on it and then waiting to see what happens.

good luck and please let us know what you do. Pictures would be nice, too.

kev
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2007, 08:47:38 PM »

I think once you get started You will be able to work it out
kirk-o
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wayne
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2007, 09:51:56 PM »

  If this were a section of hollow tree I would set a hive body on top after cutting a hole a couple inches in diameter in the lid over the comb.
  I would then close off the bottom with screen wire or scrap lumber to force the bees up through the box. With a top entrance and some frames and foundation they should start working the hive body.
 After they have a decent start in the hive, try drumming them up into the hive. If that fails just give them time until the queen starts laying in the hive. Then lift it onto a bottom board with an excluder and leave it near the bin. At your leasure remove the remainder.


wayne 
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BEE C
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2007, 10:02:47 PM »

Does this mean black paint is ok for hives? shocked
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2007, 06:21:50 AM »

>Does this mean black paint is ok for hives?

That depends on how hot your summers are...
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2007, 06:01:22 PM »

Back in the days when I still did removals I always took a queen cage with me.  When I found the Queen (cutting out the comb peice by peice) I put her in te cage and put the cage in the hive.  I was always successful in getting the bees and keeping the queen.  After I took the hive back to the apiary I released the queen from her cage.
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2007, 06:57:09 PM »

had a look at the pictures and if i am reading them right I think if you try flipping it the comb will break and fall causing untold damage (to bees) and possibly pain (to you). I still think your best bet is to go in from the side and cut the combs as you want. 
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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2007, 02:23:34 PM »

had a look at the pictures and if i am reading them right I think if you try flipping it the comb will break and fall causing untold damage (to bees) and possibly pain (to you).

It is not evident by the pictures,  but I would bet the combs are attached to the side of the compost bin as well.  The color of the visible comb also leads me to believe it is pretty solid.    Ultimately Brendhan needs to decide the strength of the comb.  But what from little I can see and my experience I think rolling it over (along the comb edge side) is very feasible.
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Understudy
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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2007, 10:15:26 PM »

I managed to build the stand and get the compost bin on the stand. There is more comb than I thought. This is a big one.


The other man taking picturs is the homeowner

There was a lot more comb than I thought.





The nest is pretty darn big. The move to the stand went real well. I only moved it about 5 feet from it's orginal location so the other bees should reorient pretty quickly. I am going out Saturday to do the cut out. I am taken a queen cage other items with me.

I apologize for some of the pictures being blurry but I had the wrong shutter speed on the camera.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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