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Author Topic: Pallet building  (Read 12002 times)
pdmattox
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« on: January 12, 2007, 07:21:14 PM »

I am building 4 way pallets for my migratory outfit.  Pictures will be added for step by step construction. 
I got the first pallet out of a pile of pallets to be thrown away due to rot and thought it would be a great template.  The layout here is for a four way, 8 frame pallet.

I first cut a 12'-2x4 into 3 pieces at 46.5 inches. 




I then cut all of the peices for the box to sit on. Used a 1x4 and cut in strips. 4-1x18", 2-1x7",2-1x28",and 2-2x18




Then took 1/2 inch pressure treated plywood and cut up into  pieces measuring 21 and 1/8 inches by 28 and 1/8 inches.
Now nail all together.



The finished product.






« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 07:38:40 PM by pdmattox » Logged

Kirk-o
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2007, 07:51:51 PM »

Hey looks good you got it all figured out
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2007, 06:40:49 AM »

dmattox;  I would be concerned about bees traveling on pressure treated plywood, then on honey.  Charlie
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pdmattox
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 07:55:04 AM »

dmattox;  I would be concerned about bees traveling on pressure treated plywood, then on honey.  Charlie


I will check into it for sure, thanks for the heads up though.  Not that it matters but I know of 2 commercial operaters that use the pressure treated wood for their pallets also.
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 09:19:16 AM »

dmattox;  I would be concerned about bees traveling on pressure treated plywood, then on honey.  Charlie


I will check into it for sure, thanks for the heads up though.  Not that it matters but I know of 2 commercial operaters that use the pressure treated wood for their pallets also.

Quote;  pdmattox; I was told by a long time beekeeper and personel at two lumber yards not to use pressure treated lumber if the bees were going to live and travel on it. could be possible wax and honey contamination.

My bottom boards are made of cypress so i built my pallets to fit my bottom boards. They look a lot like the ones in the pictures you posted. They work very good. I hope you find what you are trying to do is safe .  Good luck  Charlie
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pdmattox
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2007, 07:50:51 PM »

Today I called the dept of apiary inspection and talked to Mr.Jerry Hayes and asked about using the pressure treated wood and was told to let it weather for a couple of weeks and all would be fine. The treated wood is treated with MCQ and after a couple of weeks of weathering will be fine to use. grin
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 11:01:44 PM »

Today I called the dept of apiary inspection and talked to Mr.Jerry Hayes and asked about using the pressure treated wood and was told to let it weather for a couple of weeks and all would be fine. The treated wood is treated with MCQ and after a couple of weeks of weathering will be fine to use. grin

This really bothers me for some reason.  Are you sure it is MCQ?  what about a couple weeks weathering makes it safe?  what if it doesn't rain?  What are the residual effects?  How much MCQ is safe for a human to consume?  Does it accumulate like mercury?  What about children?  how much can they consume? 
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2007, 04:59:39 PM »

Here is some info I found.  http://www.greatsouthernwood.com/products/product.aspx?id=17

"Do not use preserved wood under circumstances where the preservative may become a component of food, animal feed, or beehives."

I think this is talking about building beehives out of the treated lumber but I don't know for sure.

I cant imagine that it would be a problem to set beehives on the lumber like Dallas is doing. I use treated 4x4s under my hives.

I have a call into Great Southern Woods in AL. to find out for sure.
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pdmattox
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2007, 05:15:50 PM »




This really bothers me for some reason.  Are you sure it is MCQ?  what about a couple weeks weathering makes it safe?  what if it doesn't rain?  What are the residual effects?  How much MCQ is safe for a human to consume?  Does it accumulate like mercury?  What about children?  how much can they consume? 
[/quote]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  yes I am sure of what material I used.
> I think the "weathering" lets the MCQ and wood dry out.
> not sure if it matters if it rains, I have a water hose.
> not sure the children are afected any more than they would be by playing on playground equipment.
> As far as how much they can consume and does it accumulate like mercury I'll refer you to the msds sheet for I could not find the answer for that one.

http://www.greatsouthernwood.com/uploadedFiles/YW-MCQ-MSDS.pdf
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2007, 10:18:21 PM »

The hives are sitting on top of the pallets which are made of pressure treated wood. The hives are not made of pressure treated wood. I can not see any problem with this. How can the honey become contaminated?
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2007, 10:24:03 PM »

are your pallets part of your hives?Huh?? or do you set the hives on the pallets with the BB resting on the pallets?
i think the concern would be if the pallet were part of the interior of the hive. but even then, when bees go out on the town and they sit on someones treated lumber deck shootin' the sh....well you get the point..they dont wipe their feet before reentering the hive. even if the queen told them they should. you know how kids are.
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2007, 10:30:11 PM »

What, you think the bees are now contaminated because they are perched on pressure treated lumber. Give me a break! Pressure treated lumber is a problem when you cut it, cheesy and breath in the sawdust otherwise it is contained. The bee would prob. die on the lumber like a canary in a coal mine if it was that bad.
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2007, 10:37:01 PM »

are your pallets part of your hives?Huh?? or do you set the hives on the pallets with the BB resting on the pallets?
i think the concern would be if the pallet were part of the interior of the hive. but even then, when bees go out on the town and they sit on someones treated lumber deck shootin' the sh....well you get the point..they dont wipe their feet before reentering the hive. even if the queen told them they should. you know how kids are.

The pallet is the bottom board and there is a lot of commercial honey producers that have had no problems.  They have samples pulled from the barrells to be tested before they ship the honey.
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2007, 10:38:36 PM »

i don't think they are contaminated because they are sitting on pressure treated lumber....but how would that be different if the hive itself were made of PT lumber?
and i think that the long term danger of PT lumber is the leaching out of the chemicals.
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pdmattox
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2007, 10:52:40 PM »

Dadant sells this stuff to coat hive equipment called coppertox.  I could not find the info online but last time I checked it was somthing like the MCQ.
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2007, 11:21:07 PM »

I really like the ONE PIECE BOTTOM BOARD in a PALLET is a real nifty idea for bees and supers CONSTANTLY being rearranged, moved, split, etc..

I saw these in person, I saw them inspected, frame rearrages, super adding, medication and finally loading onto a truck, tied off and properly rigged for any trip so that everything is secure.

I'm old school on this, these pallet-bottomboards are wax free, clean easily and have little issues with burr comb. I think the EIGHT FRAME DESIGN which is 2 less frames and about 3 inches shorter than what I'm use to using. I like 8 frame alot.

I find nothing wrong with the treated wood as a bottom board, bees walk in and up into frames, they spend very little tme on the bottom boards anyways. I really don't see the issue against these wonderfully inovative board designs in the small to commercial bee pollination services. It is nearly perfect for what is needed of it - getting more from less is ALWAYS a good thing.
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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2007, 11:12:32 PM »

looks to me like a sheet of regular CDX plywood (TREATED IS GREEN) that the hives sit on and treated 2x4 runners under the plywood to support all 4 hives and keep the plywood off the ground.... its no difference from my hives sitting on 4x4 beams to keep them off the ground, no one is supposed to use treated wood in a hive, bad for the bee's and us, this is not happening in this case.....all looks good
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2007, 05:45:09 AM »

i think the ply is treated.
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2007, 01:02:19 PM »

well we can ask, Dallas is the plywood treated??


I can tell by looking at the picture that only the 2x4's are treated, everyone nose you cant put treated wood in a hive even though so have tried it, but dallas learned from some commercial beekeepers down there and yaw should at lest give him  and the commercial guys some credit and benifit of the dought....


the plywood looks like it has been stored for awhile before using, thats all..
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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2007, 07:34:18 PM »








Then took 1/2 inch pressure treated plywood and cut up into  pieces measuring 21 and 1/8 inches by 28 and 1/8 inches.





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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2007, 08:08:55 PM »

yeah, I see that he says that but that still doesn't look like pressure treated plywood, he does say that though....
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2007, 10:19:03 PM »

I find nothing wrong with the treated wood as a bottom board, bees walk in and up into frames, they spend very little time on the bottom boards anyways.

Bees tend to spend time on the bottom board "washboarding" and dragging their tongues. 

I don't have any facts about using pressure treated, but I wouldn't use it for my kids swing set, and I wouldn't use it for bottom boards either.  Just my personal preference.

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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2007, 09:56:41 PM »

well he told me that it was treated plywood, Inwouldnt use it but I do paint my BB's and outer cover solid, the inspectors agree with treated bottom boards, oh well end of story, guest most commercial pollinators have this set up when on pallets....... the bee stores do sale them that way...., new to me, but I raise queens , I'm not a pollinator....
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2007, 10:50:29 PM »

well this is an interesting question about the treated wood.  My bees tend to spend time on the bottom board, mostly in shaded bottom corners, that would be the basis of my concern.  I'd be thinking  that the continual tracking through the landing board would track preservative onto comb.  I'm not sure about any of that, but Im also a guy who doesn't use any chemicals besides menthol.  I may be incorrect to have a strong belief that this is UNsafe, but those who are sure it is safe assume to much. I'd rather err on the side of caution.  I give my honey away to friends/family.
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2007, 11:03:39 AM »

Weird. Coppertox.  That is what is used to treat tomatoes for blight.  Same product?  Gotta wonder.  Have a wonderful day, beautiful life.  Cindi
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2007, 03:27:05 AM »

treated wood has arsenic in it. i personally know some people that had an above ground pool and built a deck around it with treated lumber. after the wood got wet the chemical bond between the arsenic and wood was broken and they absorbed the arsenic into their bodies through their feet. they all got sick. after a while the arsenic on the outer layer of the wood will wash away. formaldehyde is also used in treated lumber. try searching the net for the material safety data sheet on pressure treated lumber for other harmful components. i know the little yellow tag on treated lumber specifically says not to use it for BEEHIVES, but doesn't say not to use it for bottom boards. Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 04:01:46 PM »

Most treated lumber in the US before 2003 was treated with CCA containing arsenic but since Jan 2004 the EPA has baned its use in treated lumber. There should not be any problem with arsenic poisoning with new wood.
The newer materials used in treated lumber are much safer but I would still worry about using them in a hive. Unfortunately alternative materials that provide the same weathering and strength are much more expensive.

Craig
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2007, 04:53:05 PM »

thats' good to know. but unfortunately it didn't help my friends much when the got arsenic poison before that.
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« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2008, 07:49:23 PM »

Pressure treated lumber is a problem when you cut it

MCQ treated (yellawood) is an irritant when cut, ACQ treated lumber is highly corrosive to fasteners unless you're using stainless

I am partial to woods like black locust, osage orange, hedge, hawthorn and ipe (brazillian cherry), they last
longer than treated wood when in contact with the ground but you dont have the luxury of plywood

ipe is super dense and you have to predrill every nail hole, even pneumatic nailers wont penetrate it
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« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2008, 06:25:28 AM »

Ipe (Brazilian Walnut) is amazing wood.  Extremely dense.  It's one of the only woods with a specific gravity higher than water.  It weathers really good but you would pay more for it.  I think i'll stick to pine/cypruss sbb on treated lumber stands.
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« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2008, 08:21:12 PM »

whoops... I was thinking of jatoba, it has very similar qualities as ipe, I was paying $1.20
per board foot. I've been unhappy with what I find in pressure treated the last few years
everyone locally wants to carry ACQ treated lumber, even with galvanized fasteners they
only last a couple of years, stainless get a bit pricey
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« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2008, 11:35:31 AM »

I'm questioning if the plywood would actually need to be treated?  The parts of the pallet that are on the ground would be advantageous, however the top of pallet/bottom board should be away from the ground and debris, especially if the bees are getting moved often.  I wouldn't have a problem using treated lumber for the structure of the pallet, but wouldn't use it for the plywood and bottom board structure.  Just my 2 cents.
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« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2008, 11:48:27 AM »

treated wood has arsenic in it. i personally know some people that had an above ground pool and built a deck around it with treated lumber. after the wood got wet the chemical bond between the arsenic and wood was broken and they absorbed the arsenic into their bodies through their feet. they all got sick. after a while the arsenic on the outer layer of the wood will wash away. formaldehyde is also used in treated lumber. try searching the net for the material safety data sheet on pressure treated lumber for other harmful components. i know the little yellow tag on treated lumber specifically says not to use it for BEEHIVES, but doesn't say not to use it for bottom boards. Smiley


Treated wood used to be treated with arsenic but it's not anymore for the reason your talking about.  Stuff is pretty safe now.
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