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Author Topic: 100 years ago  (Read 2992 times)
pdmattox
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« on: January 07, 2007, 06:48:40 PM »

The year is 1907.....but the speaker knew what he was talking about.




Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here
in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be
treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to
discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or
origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an
American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance
here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an
American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have
room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we
have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American
people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2007, 06:58:36 PM »

if you want to live in the world of 100 years ago then you might want to trash your computer.
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 07:16:17 PM »

I think if you don't want to abide by the rules and culture of our nation and try to ram your culture down our throats we do not have to accomodate you.Our constitution is much older than that and I for one am not ready to throw it out the window. When my grandmother came here as a little girl from Sweden they didn't come crawling under the fence,ask for handouts or expect us to write everything in her native language so she wouldn't have to assimilate. She and her family managed just fine to survive in America and she didn't consider herself a Swedish American, just a proud American as any one should be if they want to come here. If they like their homeland better I think they should stay there rather than trying to turn America into another nation.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 08:42:15 PM »

But America has already been turned into something different since the constitution was written. And even though it was written in English it doesn't demand everyone to speak English now does it?
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 10:19:08 PM »

No,but It does not require the government to print things in every language conceivable.either.How long till our money is printed tri lingual? That is before common currency is gone and replaced with electronic currency!
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 11:02:42 PM »

Also you said something about culture. I'm not real sure I ever really knew what culture was, or what the word meant, but I am pretty sure you find different culture in different parts of the country. San Antonio's culture is deeply mexican, after all it use to be a part of Mexico. So the spanish speaking.... Tex-Mex.... latino language is a big part of the culture. But that is OK let us outlaw it.

New Orleans was involved with the French some how weren't they? And they also have their own language down there, Cajun ain't it? But we can outlaw that one also.

I keep thinking, for some reason, that America stands for freedom. Then I keep being told that it isn't. I don't know where I went wrong. But, if America is about freedom, and we as Americans believe it is, then why do Americans keep wanting to put limits on freedoms?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

I like that part..." among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.".... That means there are more than those three.

And this part..."all men are created equal".... Wonder what that means?

Yes I know it is not in The Constitution but The Declairation of Independence.
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2007, 08:20:40 AM »

On my plate are vegetables. among these are carrots, peas and pearl onions. Doesn't sound too open ended to me Jerry.
For all of us - because I use the term loosely too - a reprint from www.Dictionary.com - number 3 is interesting, though I don't think it was meant.

Main Entry:   among
Part of Speech:   preposition
Definition:   between <<<<------ this one seems appropriate
Synonyms:   amid, amidst, betwixt, encompassed by, mid, surrounded by, with
Antonyms:   away from, outside, separate
Notes:   1. among applies to things that can be separated and counted; amid to things that cannot
2. for physical presence, amongst is used; if no physical presence is indicated, then among is used
3. use between when referring to two, use among for three or more entities, and use amid for a quantity that is not made up of separate items; between applies to reciprocal arrangements and among to collective arrangements
_________________________

Back to the original topic. Roosevelt seemed to be a very intelligent man who foreseen the writing on the wall and was trying to warn us of the next and upcoming generations of immigrants. He isn't on Rushmore for nothing. I agree in whole with his thinking, although it is impractical to expect EVERYONE to be fully equipped to rise to the statue of AMERICAN IMMEDIATELY - it should be that AMERICAN'S life long goal to be a assimilated, English Speaking, Productive and American Flag respecting member of Society who proudly says "I am an American" and stops at the end of that line with pride.

Good post Mattox Smiley

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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 09:22:10 AM »

I saw a neat little experiment the other day on TV. There were a group of people in this room. I forget the number (6 or 7) Let us say it was seven. These people were shown cards. On these cards was a line on one side and three lines on the other side. The test subjects were suppose to pick from the three lines which one was the same length as the first line. BUT, that was not what this experiment was about. Six of the seven people were actors. They were instructed to pick the wrong answer. The actual test subject would go along with the wrong answer, even though you could see it in his face he knew it was wrong, he would go along with the others. He just had to fit in. Just had to conform.

Just because 299,999,999 people conform to doing this or that, doesn't make it right. So this lonely soul will sit out here and wait till everyone else opens thier eyes.

I hope that made as much sense to you as what you wrote made to me.  grin
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2007, 10:20:29 AM »

jerrymac-language is a unifying feature of a country.  this country is unique in that people came here from all over the world and not only lived, but prospered.  they did that without giving up their individual cultures, but they did give up their national identity.  they were American.

  while they didn't give up culture, they  gave up language.  i remember in the 70's working with Vietnamese refugees.  they were so proud to be able to go to town and order or shop in English.  it made them feel that much closer to being American. 

there is nothing wrong with national pride.  when one comes here being American should be the goal.  if you want to keep your language, laws, get welfare, and not live in your own country....go to France.  you can do that there.  it's not working to well for the french......but it's a heck of a deal for the immigrants.

maybe there is something instructive in the story of the Tower of Babel?

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 10:31:46 AM »

i thought the tower of babel occurred because everyone spoke the same language?Huh?

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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2007, 11:14:26 AM »

Genesis 11
The Tower of Babel
 1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, [a] they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
 3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."

 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

 8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel [c] —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 11:19:08 AM »

.... it made them feel that much closer to being American.... 

What makes me feel like an American is the ability of the people to be different in so many ways, including language, and manage to get things done. Manage to be unified when the going gets tough. To maintain ones own identity and not having to be a identical to anyone else.

People keep talking about how lucky they are to be an American. How proud they are to be here. Then they want to change it from the way it is to something that suits them.... just because....
Keep changing America and we could end up resembling something like Denmark.  grin

I really contemplated hitting the post button after that last part.... Just had to do it. evil
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2007, 11:46:59 AM »

i think you are confusing personal identity with national identity.  we all want to keep our personal identity and our native culture is a part of that.  our national identity is a different thing and language is a part of it.  English is the language of this country.  a common language unifies. 

i don't care what people speak at home or in their community groups.  being bi-lingual is a big +.  however, if you are going to engage in commerce, get an education, expect services, then learn the national language.  and DON'T WAVE THE FLAG OF SOME OTHER COUNTRY IN MY STREETS demanding special recognition.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2007, 03:59:40 PM »

Kathy:

I am always so impressed at your understanding of world history and current events. Obviously you must read a lot more non-fiction than fiction, and you are inspiring me to put away the crime dramas for a spell and attack something that has historical value. I will though say with the new online audio-book library, I finished Echo Park by Michael Connelly, a very good story following a repeat main character this time hunting a serial killer while dealing with political corruption - the vast majority of material I escape into is crime, court room and forensic pathology novels. I rented out two books this week and start working 3-11 shift tomorrow, seems I may easily finish the second book before it expires Saturday.

Back to my point. I rarely agree with Jerrymac, but getting his 180 degree views is a wonderful (albeit head scratching experience) that I wouldn't trade for the world. I have to say Kathy, although we say things very differently, I come off the cuff with personal beliefs where you add specific data to back your posts up - we often agree on many issues, even though for different reasons. Not that agreeing is important, but to hear your views are fascinatingly educational to me and often help curb or modify my own future thinking. Again, I'm not right although I voice my beliefs, having your input often sharpens my thinking as much as Jerrymacs often reinforces it.  tongue

I enjoy radio hosts from the far ends of left and right, and ponder the glimmer of someone in the middle making a stronghold in radio - we can argue the positions of the far right to the far left and as (I think you mentioned the other day) Alex Jones and Prison-planet who represents our only true third party, the Paranoid theorist Party, interestingly enough I find him entertaining, mostly because I think he does his homework well and has very good spontaneous recall. His paranoid tendencies often remind me of someone, I can't spontaneously recall who  grin But I say paranoid in jest, the fact that various concepts of freedom is a milestone of our democracy. We fight for such rights yet limit them almost hap-hazardously these days in fear of others using our freedoms to anilate us. It is indeed an oxymoron of modern society.

Yes, as was asked openly at the start of this topic or a similar topic - who was it that said I don't mind giving up some degree of freedom IF I feel that it increase the safety of the masses - that was me. I know believing that DNA profiling of all newborns sounds too Big Brother to some, I believe it is a way to safely improve the loss of lives and cost of prosecution in the next generation and since it would be done blanketly across the board, how does it inflict on personal rights?

Saying, why bother inspecting 2% of all cargo entering US ports since inspecting 100% is theoretically infeasible is like saying saving 2% of all cancer victims by moderate doses of radiation isn't worth the effort. If life and liberty go hand in hand in our society, then any attempt to better either is a worthy gesture. I wonder though, if we had JUST invested the Trillions spent on this war on REAL Homeland Security, the threat of terrorism would be as high, but would the enactment of it be as successful? I have only heard of spoiled plots (here in the States) since 9-11, radical groups with visions of being a blurb in the history books, spoiled through our own increased security and the efforts of other countries who have greatly increased their own technologies and surveillance.

I don't believe that taking the law in your own hands solves anything, generally. We have law enforcement for that. But police agencies, like everything else are stretched to their limits and unlike much of the world, when you break into the wrong house in the United States, you had better be prepared for the consequences. All bets are off when you walk into someone else's home, I don't think as Jorn mentioned that you can assume simple robbery is an intent. And even if it is so, what gives anyone the right to break into someone Else's home with the intent of doing any crime, no matter what the severity of intent.

I have always believed that ALTHOUGH I WOULD NOT OWN WEAPONS, I would do anything and everything to stop an intruder and after bounding him securely, take my time calling the police. I promise if the intruder lives, he will not be physically or mentally able to repeat these trespasses. You do what it takes to end a threat and level the degree of safety the law says, use equal force to neutralize the threat and no more - but I believe that to be fiction in our land where nightly news stories usually start off with POLICE OFFICER SHOT DEAD.

Just last night (or night before) here in New Jersey, an off-duty 23 year old cop went into a late night take-out place and ordered chicken. When he pulled out his wallet, someone behind him tried to rob the officer and a fight ensued. The animal pulled a gun and pumped several shots into the cop, killing him in cold blood, then escaped. This is the world we live in, not some fantasy dot on the Globe where police never come in time, emergency operators hang up because you used the f-word in a moment of shear terror, but a land where your ability to protect yourself is the last thing you want to exercise, but the first thing you will preform to survive.

Strangely, I feel safe in my tiny community of 3000, but that feeling is just wishful thinking - the bad guys are out there in great number and the chance of you encountering them is far greater than ever hitting a lottery - survival isn't a concept, it is a reality and peace is not a reality but a wish. None of us can expect either when we are out numbered or over-powered, even given "Extraordinary Powers" doesn't make a cop a superman, the only supermen on Earth are ourselves when dealing with the scum of the world.
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2007, 04:44:27 PM »

Amen, John.
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2007, 06:09:27 PM »

my mind is a large repository of usually useless crap......from time to time, something relevant floats to the top smiley

i read far more fiction, but i do like history and i do like try to keep up on things.  there is just more out there than anyone could possibly absorb.

i sleep best when i go to bed with one of the K's.  Kellerman, Koontz, or King!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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