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Author Topic: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year  (Read 2712 times)


Offline Understudy

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 04:21:47 PM »
I didn't see any in lake city.

Palm Beach County on the other hand.....

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Offline pdmattox

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 07:12:03 PM »
Some bee experts say that will change in 2007.  Some people have reported some of the genetics are already here.

Offline Kirk-o

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2007, 03:31:16 PM »
I don't think you need to worry about African Bees can't stop them.I think some of the bees I have might be Africanized but I don't have trouble.If I do I requeen
kirko
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IndianaBrown

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 10:49:50 PM »
USDA Map of Africanized Honey Bee Spread Updated
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2007/070209.htm

Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2007, 12:16:33 AM »
Strange how they just skip over large sections of land.
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Offline TwT

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2007, 01:37:25 AM »
Quote from: Jerry maclink=topic=7233.msg47490#msg47490 date=1171080993
Strange how they just skip over large sections of land.

I agree, these things cannot be too accurate, you know those counties in Texas couldn't have be skipped over, Texas has to be covered, so who knows for sure
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Offline Understudy

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2007, 08:08:58 AM »
The map only highlights area where DNA tests have been performed on bees. Other areas may have had DNA tests done but those didn't show up with AHB DNA. It doesn't mean they aren't there. It just means they haven't established themselves.

The bee on the left is suppose to represent the appreance of the Apis mellifera  scutellata (Africanized Bee) What is realy funny is all my bees look like that one.

edited to add:
Okay my brain is going now. The european honeybee is suppose to be slightly larger than the AHB. Do they mean european bees raised in standard hives with larger cell foundation ? One of the things I have noticed doing cutouts is how much smaller the bees are. Feral bees do not always mean Africanized bees. However it means bees without chemicals and those that have had time to regress to a natural cell size.

Also the picture really bugs me because the only bee I have seen that resembles the european honeybee in the picture is the queen. The queen tends to have a abdomen that is much less striped than those of the worker bees. So maybe I am losing it or maybe I am raising AHB's and doing it right. Although I doubt that seriously.


The bees I removed from the compost bin.

Bees I have been raising for a year now. You may have to make the image large to see the detail.

I think I am frustrated because the image shows a dramatic difference in appearence, yet everything else I have read says the only way to tell is with a DNA test.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 06:37:49 PM by Understudy »
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Offline Kirk-o

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2007, 10:36:33 AM »
what wonderful photos of the bee's
kirk-o
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Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 11:50:38 AM »
My thought is they never really paid attention to the size of ferals vs domestic until AHB arrived on the scene. Then someone noticed they were smaller than their bees. Then every time they see a smaller bee they think AHB before thinking feral bee. I read about some traits of the AHB and noticed my bees do a lot of it. One is flying straight into the hive instead of landing and walking in. Mine do that. Any way.... small bee does not equate African bee.
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Offline gottabee

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2007, 12:54:44 PM »
I ordered some queens from Texas which turned out really mean on the second generation. They are dark queens. Workers are very similar to those pictured but I dont think they are africanized though they may have some common traits. The colony has good producers and are very hygenic. However, they are quick to sting and persue. Everything considered not a bad bee overall. Just ill. I intend to requeen this spring because I do not want this type around small children.
Everything is a tradeoff I guess.
DNA may be the conclusive way to determine if a colony is truely AHB or not. There are apparently non AHBs which are agressive as well. The temperment of the colony is the most important trait to me. I scored about fifty stings (even with protection) last year.
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Offline Understudy

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2007, 02:28:52 PM »
A standard european hive will go nuts if you drop the hive box, trust me. My jeans and shirt had hundreds of stingers in them. Fortunatly not many got through. 

I have had queenless hives be agressive. I have had hives be aggressive when I peaked in after a rain. A standard hive will defend itself aggressively if it sees fit. That doesn't mean AHB aren't mean and nasty. It just means that not all mean and nasty are AHBs. Appearence and temperment does not mean AHBs.

I suspect also that with open breeding and cross genetics, all bees in the south will end up with some AHB DNA. However that also does not mean they will be aggressive. I have genetic traits for blonde, brunette, redhead genes in my DNA. However the DNA that is dominate in mine is the brunette. So I wonder if the genetic traits of the AHB are always dominate and if after several generations they are still aggressive.

This is why I don't mind having a 10% - 15% drone rate. If my males go out there and mate hopefully it will help. I don't think my hives alone would stem the tide of AHB spread but If enough beekeepers existed in SoFla with standard bees and raised 10%-15% drones with their hives and let them mate freely. I think the AHB population would change. Don't get me wrong AHB hives produce drones also.  And they will mate with standard queens. But on a mating flight if she mates with 30 drones and 2 of them are AHB drones. You hive would be fine. When they raised their next queen it would be a little over a 6% chance that it would be based on the sperm from the AHB drone. Now if that happens you now have AHB DNA at 50% from the drone. You also have 50% from a european queen. Thus you have already watered down the DNA. Most likely it would be aggressive. But go for two more generations after that and you have 12.5% percent DNA of AHB. I am not certain how aggressive that would be. Also what traits are dominate and what are recessive is a huge factor. So it is possible to have a small percentage of AHB DNA and have an aggressive hive. But you could have 50% DNA with recessive genes and it not be aggressive.

I understand that when the AHBs spread in S. America they pretty much took over. Because they swarm much more frequently and they take over weak hives. And I am not saying they couldn't or wouldn't take over here. They are certainly on the move. I wonder if the lack of feral hives of european bees is a factor in that.

Now since the honeybee is the most studied insect out there. I suspect there are real answers to this. I would love to hear them.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Offline papabear

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2007, 06:12:25 PM »
I'm new to this. I live in south LA. this last fall I caught a swarm that was in a tree 10 feet up. Let me tell you they were the meanest bees I've come in contact with. With smoke they were ALL OVER ME!!! Even at home when I opened the box almost everyone came out after me. They all looked like the pic of the AHB. Needless to say they didn't make the winter. Good thing I was going to get rid of them anyway
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Offline Understudy

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2007, 06:31:06 PM »
They all looked like the pic of the AHB.

This is a prime example of what I mean. They may not have been AHBs they may have been but without a DNA test you can't be sure. All my bees look like what is in the image.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Offline Mici

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2007, 07:09:21 PM »
funny....the bee on the right seems more "out-of-the-ordinary" at least to me, the one on the left....i know very little 'bout AHB but...only the wings are a sign to me-lifted a bit more.

Offline Understudy

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2007, 07:24:12 PM »
I found this in wikipedia:
The Florida African Bee Action Plan states, "News reports of mass stinging attacks will promote concern and in some cases panic and anxiety, and cause citizens to demand responsible agencies and organizations to take action to help insure their safety. We anticipate increased pressure from the public to ban beekeeping in urban and suburban areas. This action would be counter-productive. Beekeepers maintaining managed colonies of domestic European bees are our best defense against an area becoming saturated with AHB. These managed bees are filling an ecological niche that would soon be occupied by less desirable colonies if it were vacant. "

You may read the entire document (written may 2006) here:
http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/ahbgroup/actionplan.doc
Warning in micrsoft .doc (word) format.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Offline Kirk-o

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2007, 08:45:16 PM »
I think they are in California
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Offline drobbins

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2007, 08:50:46 PM »
the worrisome thing is that they've migrated here all the way from Brazil, interbreeding with EHB the whole way, and they still seem to be pretty purebred and mean
all you can do is requeen mean hives, which you should do anyway

Dave
 

Offline Understudy

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2007, 10:21:47 PM »
the worrisome thing is that they've migrated here all the way from Brazil, interbreeding with EHB the whole way, and they still seem to be pretty purebred and mean
all you can do is requeen mean hives, which you should do anyway

Dave
 
Yes , you should requeen hot hives. However, please don't believe that hot hives are AHB hives.

Kirk-o:
Yes they are in SoCal. They have been for a while.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Offline gottabee

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Re: Map of the spread of Africanized honey bee by year
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2007, 11:16:06 AM »
A standard european hive will go nuts if you drop the hive box, trust me. My jeans and shirt had hundreds of stingers in them. Fortunatly not many got through. 

I have had queenless hives be agressive. I have had hives be aggressive when I peaked in after a rain. A standard hive will defend itself aggressively if it sees fit. That doesn't mean AHB aren't mean and nasty. It just means that not all mean and nasty are AHBs. Appearence and temperment does not mean AHBs.


Brendhan, well stated and I agree. These bees in two of my hives react to simple movement, attacking me when I mow within 25 feet of the hive, swarming to movement of my hands, sometimes if I am casting a shadow on the colony, ... Whether they posess any genetic DNA of AHB is not important to me. Their positive attributes are not worth the price of their ill and agressive temperment. Since they came from an area of the country known to be inhabited with AHB populations they may have some genetic AHB DNA if they were to be tested or maybe not. Being agreessive without provocation (dropping, rain, windy, cloudy...) is cause for me to requeen ASAP.
I know there are successful efforts to breed the desirable traits of AHBs with other breeds but what I am afraid you always end up with is a very desirable lucious readhead with a bipolar disorder.
Nature will figure it out.