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Author Topic: making queens  (Read 8444 times)
FordGuy
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« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2007, 01:31:07 PM »

The worst way

Take  hive's self made swarming queen cells and you will ruin your be yard.   You make your whole yard swarmy.

Second worst is take from good crossbreeded hive.


(different opinions no needed because they exit among natural beekeepers)


Finsky, if "hive's self made swarming queen cells" are used "you make your whole yard swarmy" then that would suggest that queen's eggs should have not been used to make nucs, and can never be used for nucs.  I don't believe the decision the old queen made to swarm can affect the decision of the new swarm queen.  If her decisions can be influenced at all, it would seem to me workers left in the hive would have a greater influence, such as in causing afterswarms with a virgin queen.
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Mici
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« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2007, 04:31:25 PM »

finsky's statement lacks something. and i think we all know what.
there are different reasons for a colony to swarm, if you can't find any obvious and good reason, it's just swarmy, and it would probably really be a bad idea to take it's cell. but than again...an egg is only half the queen in genes.
still, finksy's experienced, so i can't opose his statements,.
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Finsky
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« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2007, 06:49:31 AM »

finsky's statement lacks something. and i think we all know what.

Who knows and what knows? That one sentence should contain everything - hick! There is no great secret in this issue.

Most beekeepers do not know why bees swarm!

Basic is that honey bee reproduce in that way - few knows that
Non swarmy is feture made by beekeeper's selection - much fever knows that

If colony is weak, it is not eager to swarm.

Some bee strains swarm as surely as sun rises.  Crainian bee is too sawrmy to me.

How to get non swarmy hive to swarm?

* hive is become full of honey  - give all the time new space where bees put nectar rippen.
* hive is too crowdy - hive will be crowdy even if it is empty of honey. Bees need just room to expand.
* laying space is missing - very small nucleus will swarm if queen has no space to lay.
* keep od queens.


Why to get non swarmy bee strain?

* when hive is big it gathers honey best - but biggest colonies swarm first!
* non swarmy strain is result of human selection = bee breeding. Non swarmy = non reproducing is unnatural feature.
* If colony have natural instincts, it swarms when yield is at it's best. That is great idea of nature but disaster of beekeeping.

 
I just had very distant beeraces which I crossed: Italians and Elgons.  Hybrids become too swarmy, worse than crainians.
I explained to me that "nonswarmy" features are in different genes and it is abnormal feature in nature. When I crossed those strains, genes were healed. Hybrids were swarmy and agressive.

Agressive means that they protect they home and stores. It is natural habit. Unnatural is that bees not attach on beekeeper.


I have had 30-40 years ago "Rural German Black bees" . No one breeded them and they were awfull to keep. The size of colonies were 1-2 Langstroth boxes and then it swarmed.  Then I got Caucasian bees. Origin was from Canada. I start to get honey yields.


In those good old days in Finland guys had old fassion hives which has 2 box space. When They byed selected new bees, they got again only brood and swarms - because that beestrain needed 6 boxes space. They said that bees are not good.


But however, it is nice that you know all.  - If you know a little you know all. Don't try more. It is only bad to your soul. And honey selling is worst.

*********
To get rid of swarming - buy commercial queens.
To get swarm - let bees raise their own queens and do not make selection= breeding.
Nature knows better, but only in that case if you do not know.


.
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Finsky
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« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2007, 06:56:20 AM »

I do not know all. Swarming is my problem very often, just now a farmer called to me that bees are in bird box near my hives.  I drive there in evening 160 km. Another swarm is now in one farmer's shimney.

Maarec has good advices what to do with swarms. http://www.ento.psu.edu/MAAREC/pdfs/Swarm_Prev_Control_PM.pdf

Further more, I change my queens every year. It happens that often queen shows it's swarmy tendency in second year.
You must fight against swarming every year by queen selection.

Mici is right. Queen is only half of colony's  genes, but it is difficult to control drone side if you have other beehives nearby. I used last year as drone hive a colony, which swarmed 2 times this year.  This summer was not good .....

sssssss happens even in better families.



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Cindi
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« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2007, 09:40:16 AM »

Finksy, it is good to see you post again in the forum.  Your words of 45 years experience keeping bees is welcomed by me in particular.  I listen and learn.  Have a wonderful day, best of this beautiful life.  I hope your season was not overly bad, I remember you saying that it was not doing so well.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Finsky
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« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2007, 10:29:42 AM »

I hope your season was not overly bad, I remember you saying that it was not doing so well.  Cindi

Our honey summer has been on bad side statistics. It has been a lot of rain. Rape has bloomed 5 weeks but it hives quite few honey.
Now we are going into fall. After 3 weeks we give winterfeeding. 

June was cold and rainy. Hives must be feeded untill to end of June. Hives were too small after June.

Just now weather is extremely good. Heather and red clover may surprise us with honey.

Just now hives are swarming happily  because they are too full.

.
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Cindi
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« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2007, 10:40:38 AM »

Finsky, we have had a pretty bad summer here too.  The rain in June (almost no days of  bee flying weather) in my immediate area was harsh. No chance for the bees to really get out and get the blackberry flow, which is huge.  My bees have not built up as I thought that they would.  The weather has been off and one.  About two weeks ago we had one full week of rain, heavy rain.  It killed all the cucumber plants that I was growing, dead, right to the ground and that was bad.  Other plants are doing pretty good, but things are not like they were last year, where we had almost 3 months of no rain.  I think that many people have had a tough year with the bees gathering nectar and pollen.  EXCEPT Dane Bramage, I think that he has all the good weather and the nectar/pollen plants too, it sounds like he has too much honey to know what to do with  Wink.  Good luck with the flow that still may be coming on, we are doing much better now with our weather too and have almost into the middle of October before we have frost kill, which will end all chance of nectar gathering.

Any honey that I may be able to take off must be done by September 5, then the formic acid treatment must be in place to prepare the bees for a mite free wintertime.  Then around the 1 of December I will apply oxalic acid to "get" any mites that may have been missed by the formic acid, during the broodless period.  We have not just under a month for the bees to work for us.  I am preparing now for next year of wonderful building up with my colonies.  Have a wonderful day, great life, good talking to you, Finsky.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Mici
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« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2007, 10:02:57 AM »

with all of us, i meant the standard old gang that is on this forum, also, if a beek doesn't know why bees swarm, why bother keeping bees Sad.
now...i could write back, why i wrote that, and count all the reasons for a hive to swarm and in which case swarming is a sign of "bad" genes and in which it's a sign of a strong colony, but you already did it.so, why shoudl i bother. it's only that i'm confused, wether you were offended by my statement or what?!'! i'm really confused, anyway as it looks i got you upset , which is a good thing, because you wrote all that stuff, hehe, thanks.

for the record:
Carnis/carniolans , but probably it was just a typo.
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kathyp
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« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2007, 10:26:07 AM »

finsky, it wasn't a good summer for lots of us   Undecided
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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Finsky
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« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2007, 06:45:10 AM »

swarming is a sign of "bad" genes and in which it's a sign of a strong colony,.

....new typo?Huh??

Only sign of strong colony is number of boxes. Over  5 boxes are strong.

Swarming means that hive is devided and is not any more strong. Swarming is sign of lacking foraging power.

40 years ago I had a german black hive which never had over 4 frames.  It swarmed at once if it got more bees.
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Mici
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« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2007, 11:21:24 AM »

the quotation you made is incomplete and missleading. that's not a really nice thing to do. and no, it's not a typo
a swarm can also be a sign of a strong colony. of course, the beekeeper has to be a bit...sloby, to let them run out of room, or the technology he's practicing is not the best.

Quote from: finsky
Swarming is sign of lacking foraging power
this is the first time i hear something like this.

Quote from: finsky
40 years ago I had a german black hive which never had over 4 frames.  It swarmed at once if it got more bees.
in this case, we could talk about "bad" genes.
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Cindi
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« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2007, 09:41:00 AM »

Mici
> Swarming is a sign of lacking in foraging power.

I think what Finsky meant by that was: 

When the ratio of nurse bees to foraging bees gets too high it is a prime time for a swarm to issue.  This is true.  If there are too many nurse bees, the colony WILL more than likely swarm.  I have read this fact through bee research, and it makes alot of sense.  Sometimes these small details are not known by many people.  Have a wonderful day, great life and love this life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Finsky
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« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2007, 11:47:20 AM »

Mici
> Swarming is a sign of lacking in foraging power.

I think what Finsky meant by that was: 


Useless to hink what I think.

When hive swarm, half of bees leave the hive and hive is not able any more get surplus honey. It is so simple.

Swarming = hive is swarming = they are flying on the level of tree tops - hastala vista = whole year's work is disapearing to the blue of sky. 

Bad genes and good genes is not explanation to bee if colony is worthless.
.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2007, 12:40:27 AM »

yep honey crop go by by  grin I hate it when that happens Wink keep posting finskey need your flare back around here RDY-B
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Cindi
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« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2007, 11:26:57 AM »

Got that right on Rdy-B.  Beautiful day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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