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Author Topic: making queens  (Read 8255 times)
michelleb
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2007, 03:38:11 PM »

Fin,

I don't anticipate as many as 50 queen cells, much less emergent queens, and since I agree with the difficulty of getting them mated, well...I'd welcome an oversupply to cover the bases. At least, as many as can be covered by workers. (I do have the equipment.)
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Cindi
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2007, 07:25:00 PM »

Jorn, I like the description of the bees in the deep bucket, filling the 8cm square box, and so on.  It seems like a pretty simple idea.  Is there most of the time queen acceptance when she is put into such a tiny box with the bees and given to rest in a shady spot for a few hours?  The idea of not having to worry about putting a queen into a queen cage sounds good.  I had to put a queen in a queen cage once and it was rather a tricky thing.  Of course inexperience was in my hands though.  Thanks. Great day. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Michael Bush
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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2007, 08:18:19 PM »

The problem with the comb flatways is you'll have a lot of clumps of several queen cells.  It's best to eliminate every other row and then in the remaining rows, 2 out of 3 cells.  Sort of like the Jay Smith Better Queens method but without cutting the strips, just removing the larvae.  AKA the Hopkins method.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/QueenConfinement5.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/HopkinsShim.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/HopkinsFrame.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm

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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Jorn Johanesson
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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2007, 08:25:51 PM »

Is there most of the time queen acceptance when she is put into such a tiny box with the bees and given to rest in a shady spot for a few hours? 

Hello Cindy! When you use the bucket to square technique, the acceptance of queen in the square box is 100% at least with the bees I have been working with. The trick is the young feeded bees in the box. I have used it for filling up mating hives, but it can also be used for adding a queen to a hive. Here you just remove the box lid then turn the box up down on the frames. Cover with an empty super. Hive lid on. Next day remove the empty super and the square box.
Because she was added with a court of young feeded bees she will be well accepted. I do not know if it goes for Russian, but I think it will be a better way than just in a queen cage.

A real dirty way adding a new queen (she must be mated) is just to slip her into the entrance (the old queen does not need to be removed). This must be done on a real sunny day so that as much of old bees are foraging. Theory is that the bees see her as a queen getting back from mating and as a queen in a quiet replacing situation. It is more often than people think that to queens are present at the same time in hive. The oldest will after a short time just disappear without swarming.
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Cindi
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2007, 10:27:29 PM »

Jorn, thanks, that is very interesting, but now poses a couple more questions if you could answer.

<Because she was added with a court of young feeded bees she will be well accepted. I do not know if it goes for Russian, but I think it will be a better way than just in a queen cage.>
Why, my guess is that there is enough of her particular scent that becomes spread quickly to the colony because of the amount of young bees and she is not seen as an intruder?

<A real dirty way adding a new queen (she must be mated) is just to slip her into the entrance (the old queen does not need to be removed). This must be done on a real sunny day so that as much of old bees are foraging. Theory is that the bees see her as a queen getting back from mating and as a queen in a quiet replacing situation. It is more often than people think that to queens are present at the same time in hive. The oldest will after a short time just disappear without swarming.>

What does the bolded part of your previous paragraph mean?  Maybe just a little language barrier, please elaborate.  I would guess that the best time of day would be on a hot day, around say 12:00 to 1:00?  thanks Jorn.  Great day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
michelleb
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2007, 12:17:48 AM »

Yes, the Hopkins method is what I meant. The name escaped me at the time I posted. And yes, I had intended on destroying surrounding cells, as per Jay Smith.

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Jorn Johanesson
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2007, 06:11:00 AM »

Why, my guess is that there is enough of her particular scent that becomes spread quickly to the colony because of the amount of young bees and she is not seen as an intruder?

I have no experience with Russian Queens, Just read that they are difficult adding a new NO Russian queen to, so it was just a thought.

Quote
as a queen in a quiet replacing situation. What does the bolded part of your previous paragraph mean?  Maybe just a little language barrier, please elaborate.  I would guess that the best time of day would be on a hot day, around say 12:00 to 1:00?  thanks Jorn. 

I am sorry that I did not consult my beekeeping dictionary (Apimondia edition in 22 languages) it mean supersedure Sorry again for the confusion.
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Cindi
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2007, 08:46:59 AM »

Jorn, thank you for clarification, and no need for an apology.  The English language is a difficult one, even we have a hard time with many aspects of it.  I am grateful that you take the time to communicate so well to us, obviously you spend much time in looking up words and definitions with a dictionary, this is noticed.  Great day.  Thanks.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
doak
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« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2007, 11:48:40 AM »

You should have a large colony to start and finish any amout of Queen cell over half doz or so.
Select the colony you want your Queen's to come from.
Make a nuc, with the Queen and two or three frames of capped brood.
Leave all the frames that have eggs in the parent hive.
The bees will then start Queen cells, these will not be swarm or supercedre cells.
10 to 12 days later you should have capped Queen cells, cut them out carefully and leave pleanty of room around them.  You can put them in a mating nuc or directly in the hive you wish to reQueen. make sure to remove the old queen first.
I have had sucess this way.
After you are through making Queens, save one for the colony you used, if you do not want the nuc for an increase, kill the old queen and put the bees in a standard size box and use the newspaper method to recombine with the old hive.
doak.
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Cindi
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« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2007, 09:03:19 AM »

Doak, it was interesting seeing an old post revived.  Your method was good and interesting, thanks for posting it.  Have a beautiful day, great life, the sun is gonna shine.  Great health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
doak
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« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2007, 11:26:44 AM »

From now on I will pick a colony that wasen't superceded. If the bees superced their queen, they figure something is wrong with her. Thats the only choice they have, but not me. If the queen wasen't good it could and usually does come back if it is from the genes.
Last year I had a colony that didn't do very good. They made it through the winter but still wasen't doing anybetter. They superceded and the new queen isn't any better, if as good.
I disagree that using eggs from a swarmed colony will raise swarming bees.
 "All" Bees will naturally swarm under certain conditions.
MTC
doak
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Mici
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« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2007, 11:42:05 AM »

usually those are good conditions, but if you see that a colony swarms few years in a row, and you are certain they still have enough room to expand, well that must be genes, but on the other hand genes...
queen A is very swarmy, B C D E are other queens, we know that drones are actually queens replica, s far as genes go so

A colony swarms this year, the queen left in the colony is now only HALF A queen, so the third year and the third queen is only one quarter of A queen... basicly, it's more a coincidence that the same hive swarms..i don't know 3-4 years in a row, because after 4 years,almost all genes of the so called swarmy queen are disappated.
at least i see it so, maybe i'm wrong


as for supercedure, i think it's a good way to make an extra queen, at least i hope it is, i'll try to remove the old queen and use her for a new colony, because in my criteria she is still more than good, especially compared to one of my poor queens.
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doak
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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2007, 12:11:27 PM »

Mici, you have a point on one thing.
When I said something was wrong with the queen, I didn't think about a physical defect.
Not sugesting yours have one.
But on the other hand I have seen what appear to be perfectly good queens be superceded.
Good patteren and all.
doak
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Cindi
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2007, 10:58:21 PM »

My queen that the overwintered Carniolan colony wanted to supercede is absolutely nothing less than fantastic.  I will post more on what I saw yesterday when I inspected this colony that was babied through the winter with a terrarium heater.  Amazing female heading that hive!!!!  Have a wonderful day, great life, great health wishes to all. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
doak
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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2007, 01:14:12 AM »

One of the hives that swarmed is on it's forth year. This is the first swarm it has produced. I don't know if
 it was ever superceded or not. The other swarm is a 50/50 chance it came from the same colony that this
swarms mother colony came from. This is from the original swarm that came out of the woods in 2000.
All the colonies that came from that original swarm has a large build up each year and makes a lot of honey each year.
I think I'm trying to say something here.
My other colonies that came from other sources and was requeened with ordered queens, haven't done half as good.
Really haven't gave it much thought till now.
Funny how things come to mind when you have someone to talk to about it.
 rolleyes
doak
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Cindi
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« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2007, 01:58:09 AM »

Doak, in this forum, with our new and old friends, you will always have someone to talk to. 
This is a good thing, our friends will always listen, everyone has a great story to tell, be it long (like mine), short and this goes on and on and on.  Have a great day, great life, great health wishes to us all.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
doak
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« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2007, 01:32:11 PM »

Speaking of making "queens". Just thought I'd pass this along.
Do the math.
If I want to raise some queens and have enough for all my colonies, (7), it would pay me to get one of the queen rearing kits. It will pay for itself this year.

I would think one would have better control of the timing of the process.
What yall think.
doak
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2007, 10:39:45 PM »

>What yall think.

Here's what I think:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm
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Michael Bush
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Cindi
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« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2007, 09:57:57 AM »

Michael, I just have to tell you that you put a smile on my face and make me laugh.  I love how you help people out so much by directing them to your fantastic website.  I want to thank you again for being such a wonderful mentor to so many of our forum members (including me), thank you, have a great life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Michael Bush
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« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2007, 10:26:49 AM »

I just got tired of typing the same thing over and over...
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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