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Author Topic: how many is too many?  (Read 5854 times)

Offline pdmattox

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how many is too many?
« on: December 29, 2006, 07:09:16 PM »
How does one  know the maximum amount of hives to put in a bee yard at one time?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2006, 08:06:43 PM »
That depends on the forage and the climate.  Here, on general farm land the general rule is about 25 hives. You can put more, but they won't make more honey.
Michael Bush
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Offline Finsky

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2006, 02:55:24 AM »
How does one  know the maximum amount of hives to put in a bee yard at one time?

An of course it depends how much there are hives without your hives.

I use 1-4 hives in one site. Then another blok at 1-2 mile's distance Earlier I used 10 . Now my yield jumped 80% when I dopped my hive number.

Canola field may tolerate even 50 hives in one site but after 2 weeks the bloom is away.  I set my hives agording the minimum pastures. So bees have all the time good pastures.  If it is hot weather, I may say that canola is not worth more than one hive even if you have 50 hectares canola.

I have noticed that differencies in yields between sites may be 3-5 fold. That is a big challenge to choose sites we bees get heavy loads from nearby area. People think that the amount of honey depends on how good is the hive. But the biggest reason is how much flowers have nectar and how fast bees get the full load.

Every one must learn that on his own area. This has been to me the most diffucult in beekeeping.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 03:56:35 AM by Finsky »

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2006, 08:50:02 PM »
As Finsky rightly points out the main factor of yield is number of bees to crop ration in a given area--the more bees the less yield per hive.  The second factor is number of available foragers.  The stronger hives have the edge in crowded area due to the number of bees available to forage.  When looking for sights to place bees look for areas where visiable hives are few to none.  If the forage is good and the hive is strong you can expect good yields.  In optimum circumstances you can get 300 lbs of honey per hive.  The less forage, the more bees, the weaker the hive, all reduce the yield downward.
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Offline Kirk-o

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2006, 11:27:50 PM »
Finski is Pretty sharp on this stuff he has to get the Maximum in a small amount of time haveing read alot of his stuff he is successful on this subject
kirko
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Offline Mklangelo

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2007, 07:06:03 PM »
This is interesting.  I am just starting out with my first two hives in April in Southeastern Wisconsin.  I am placing them in one of the northern suburbs of a large metro area.  Near a very large park and lots of trees throughout.  If I'm wrong please correct me but can an urban area be good since people will water their flowers and provide good floral source?  And I'm pretty sure there are lots of Maple trees too which are good for a nice early start for foraging.  I will look into this further though.  In regard to Finsky's statement about hives in the immediate area, I'm not aware of any.  As a matter of fact, in almost 50 years in and around this city and it's surrounding areas, I have yet to see one beekeeper's hive...


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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2007, 07:38:06 PM »
>can an urban area be good since people will water their flowers and provide good floral source?

Yes.  I had some hives in town for 34 years and they almost always do well.  My biggest problems where when the city would fog for mosquitoes with Malthion at 2:00pm in the afternoon in the middle of summer.
Michael Bush
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Offline Kirk-o

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2007, 07:43:22 PM »
I have hives up by Dodger stadium.And I have had them on Sunset Blvd by the Fire Station thats about as urban as you can get they did great
kirko
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Offline Finsky

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2007, 04:11:25 AM »
If I'm wrong please correct me but can an urban area be good since people will water their flowers and provide good floral source? 

I had 15 years in small town and area was 100% full of home gardens. When apple trees, berry bushes, cherries, weeds and everything start to flower, nectar sources were tremendous. Then it was midd of summer, and gardens gived nothing. I took hives to forest.

But I did not know what I know now. To get early yield I must start brood raising with pollen patty 2 months earlier than nectar comes.

In my area when garden were in blossom, situation in hives was that all wintered bees had died and new bees were not in age of foraging. Still they get huge yield.

Last summer the result was that hives get early dandelion & garden yield, but all 2-deep winterd hives were 80 lbs ahead one box wintered hives.  2-box wintered has so enormous start that small hives cannot run after.

Our yield season is 2 months. If you have one box wintered hives, they are not able to harvest firts month yield. - This is not well known issue in FInland. Beekeepers just think that there are good hives and not so good hives.




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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2007, 07:59:38 PM »
finsky, what are the temps like when you start feeding for brood rearing?  if i were to start feeding 2 months early, i'd have to start now because usually the fruit trees start blooming in march.  January and February are still really cold here most years.
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Offline Finsky

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2007, 06:03:04 AM »
finsky, what are the temps like when you start feeding for brood rearing?  if i were to start feeding 2 months early, i'd have to start now because usually the fruit trees start blooming in march.  January and February are still really cold here most years.

This my chedule here:

I start pollen patty feeding in the first week of April. It is time when snow has smelted  around hives  and bees get water outside. When I have started too early that bees cannot get water outside, larvae will die and chalkbrood hits into hive.

That week is 3 weeks before willow starts to bloom. When first bees emerge, they get natural pollen to eat. When bees emerge they eate a lot pollen first 3 days. But I contue patty feeding untill apple blossom because bees like it. Willow pollen is light food. It's cride protein is 15% and they need over 20%.

In May it may be a week or two bad weather and bees need pollen every day to feed on larvae.

I give patty once a week  1-2 pound per hive. 50% of patty is sugar. So they need not syrup feeding.

Our weather is cold in April. Day may be  +5C and nights -8C. SEldom bees come out. But when I feed and they come out, they are really thirsty. They are thousands taking water in icy ground in the morning.

Cold is not important but do they get water.

I use  15W electrict heating in spring and bees need not worry about temperature.

If you have no snow cover and it does not cover ground a couple of days more, it is safe to begin feed. You may arrange drinking water into hive.



Online kathyp

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2007, 02:19:21 PM »
thanks.  depending on weather, i would start feeding toward the end of Feb.  that's about what i had planned, but this winter has been colder and wetter than past.  plans will have to be fluid!
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline DBoire

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2007, 07:19:14 PM »
How does one  know the maximum amount of hives to put in a bee yard at one time?

The standard max. of 25 that MB mentions is cool, but I would say that their are too many variables to answer the question directly. So one has to start with a set number of hives and monitor hive strength, weather and the final result for the season, honey production or what ever your goal for the yard is.  Assess the results and add or reduce the number of hives accordingly.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2007, 07:52:04 PM »
>I would say that their are too many variables to answer the question directly.

Exactly.  I'd work my way up until you see too much competition.  100 hives in the middle of 80,000 acres of sweet clover that's blooming is probably not enough to make a dent in the available nectar.  25 hives in a pine forest might be pushing it.

Obviously rainfall and local plants and crops have a huge effect.
Michael Bush
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Offline Finsky

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2007, 02:13:43 AM »
.
To me evaluation of pastures and where to put hives has been the most difficult in my beekeeping. When summer is over I get the answer.  I have not learner it yeat even I have tried 20 years.

Offline TwT

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2007, 02:26:06 AM »
the basic pattern is how many hives can the area support, start out with 15 or 20 then add or subtract, like finsky says if you want honey production then start out lower then add depending on the amount of forage, like farm land it should hold more but if not then less, you have to try it out to see what the hives have to forage on...... it might be if you just looking for a place to work bee's (like just enough to survive on the land) and you are not worried about the honey it could hold more that 25 then again until you find out you will never know!!!!!! ok fishy slander me man  ;) average in one yard here is 18-23 and you will get some honey from each hive (maybe a medium super) but not a lot... just my 2 pennies worth
 
HEY FINSHY I ADDED MY PICTURE TO MY AVATAR ALSO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is me 10 years from now  ;)
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Offline Finsky

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2007, 02:53:51 AM »
If we have red clower on farmaland it will be harvested to balls when it start to bloom. Nowadays fields in Finland give only rape honey. Weeds are poisoned long time ago and all are carefully cultivated. The best be pastures are on area where wood is harvested totally.

Maybe red clower flowers are in that ball.



White clover pastures are harvested many times per summer


.


Offline TwT

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Re: how many is too many?
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2007, 04:31:57 AM »
hey fisky bro check your PM's
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic