What has happened to my Mariners?

[beeware184]

It is a sad and woeful tale about my Mariners.  They are now 14 games under 500 and are not swinging their bats very well.  We seem to be very short of run support for pitchers who rank near the top of major league baseball.  They pitch their little hearts out, but to no avail.

I know that things will turn around.    Another team meeting.............fan encouragement.......................the baseball gods again smiling on the great pacific northwest.  It will happen!

I am not just a fair weather fan.  I will be there through thick and thin.  Edgar Martinez needs a championship!  So does John Olerud.  We have great players, and they need to find their way back to the top of the west.

Hopefully the baseball gods will give up their spring bowling league and get back to work.

[/b]

[BigRog]

NY Yankees

[beeware184]

Over rated.

[BigRog]

They own better than 25% of all World Series Championships

[Rand]

They own 25% of all the championships and they own around 70% of the total baseball salary schedule.

You get what you pay for.

They should have a cap.

P.S. Don't let my location fool you, I hate the Mariners. I'm a born and raised Cardinal fan.

[BigRog]

I like to see some real stats on those salary figures.

70% of all baseball?
Amd the rest of the teams split up the other 30%

In the words of Friday (Dragnet)
"The facts, just the facts"

[Rand]

Ok, here's the facts!

 Year / Total Payroll
  2004  
 
Team Total payroll
    New York Yankees  $ 184,193,950                                          
    Boston Red Sox  $ 127,298,500                                          
    Anaheim Angels  $ 100,534,667                                          
    New York Mets  $ 96,660,970                                          
    Philadelphia Phillies  $ 93,219,167                                          
    Los Angeles Dodgers  $ 92,902,001                                          
    Chicago Cubs  $ 90,560,000                                          
    Atlanta Braves  $ 90,182,500                                          
    St. Louis Cardinals  $ 83,228,333                                          
    San Francisco Giants  $ 82,019,166                                          
    Seattle Mariners  $ 81,515,834                                          
    Houston Astros  $ 75,397,000                                          
    Arizona Diamondbacks  $ 69,780,750                                          
    Colorado Rockies  $ 65,445,167                                          
    Chicago White Sox  $ 65,212,500                                          
    Oakland Athletics  $ 59,425,667                                          
    San Diego Padres  $ 55,384,833                                          
    Texas Rangers  $ 55,050,417                                          
    Minnesota Twins  $ 53,585,000                                          
    Baltimore Orioles  $ 51,623,333                                          
    Toronto Blue Jays  $ 50,017,000                                          
    Kansas City Royals  $ 47,609,000                                          
    Detroit Tigers  $ 46,832,000                                          
    Cincinnati Reds  $ 46,615,250                                          
    Florida Marlins  $ 42,143,042                                          
    Montreal Expos  $ 41,197,500                                          
    Cleveland Indians  $ 34,319,300                                          
    Pittsburgh Pirates  $ 32,227,929                                          
    Tampa Bay Devil Rays  $ 29,556,667                                          
    Milwaukee Brewers  $ 27,528,500                                          
 
 So I guess you're right, it's not 70%, but... The Yankees salary is over twice what the #5 position Phillies are paying.

And...


Player
  Rodriguez, Alex
 
Year Team Salary Position
2004       New York Yankees  $ 22,000,000                             Shortstop
2003       Texas Rangers  $ 22,000,000                             Shortstop
2002       Texas Rangers  $ 22,000,000                             Shortstop
2001       Texas Rangers  $ 22,000,000                             Shortstop

A-Rod makes almost as much as the whole Brewers roster!

And...

Year / Top 25 players
  2004  
 
Rank Player Salary Team
1       Ramirez, Manny  $ 22,500,000                            Boston Red Sox  
2       Rodriguez, Alex  $ 22,000,000                            New York Yankees  
3       Delgado, Carlos  $ 19,700,000                            Toronto Blue Jays  
4      Jeter, Derek  $ 18,600,000                            New York Yankees  
 
A-Rod & Jeter make more than the bottom 4 teams!

If this were Nascar...well it isn't Nascar. But we need a cap! It's not even the same game when you have teams of this disparate stature trying to compete with the Yankees and Redsox who obviously don't mind buying championships.
 

These facts were obtained from the USA Today website.

By the way, I like your new avatar! She's sweet! and the girl ain't half bad either.

[BigRog]

I just spent a half hour setting up a excel spreadsheet to say what you said.    lol
BTW I love a good debate
I respect you for doing your homework. Great Job!


It's 8.89%

But you left out a bunch of teams Look at atlanta, marlins  Less than half the salaries and still field championship teams. Then again Whats the last time a redsox fan was happy in October? But look at their salaries.

My brother is look to buy a house on Long Island Median price $450,000
NYC is much more expensive. All NY teams have high payrolls, look at the cap probs the JETS (My Team) are having. Almost 35 years since they got chapionship rings. Same is true for the Rangers, The Knicks, The Mets.
My position is that it's great to have the money to spend but you CANNOT buy a championship. If the Yankees have a salary twice that of the red sox why don' the red sox have 13% of the titles? Same logic holds for the rest of the teams. And if the Yankees are spending 10% why do they have over two and a half times that much percentage of the World Series Rings?

MLB  Salaries      
Teams      Total Salaries 2004

NY Yankees      184,193,950.00
Boston Red Sox      127,298,500.00
Anaheim Angels      100,534,667.00
NY Mets                      96,660,970.00
Philadelphia Phillies      93,219,167.00
L.A. Dodgers      92,902,001.00
Chicago Cubs      90,560,000.00
Atl Braves                      90,182,500.00
St Louis Cardinals      83,228,333.00
San Francisco Giants      82,019,166.00
Seattle Mariners      81,515,834.00
Houston Astros      75,397,000.00
Arizona Diamondbacks   69,780,750.00
Colorado Rockies      65,445,167.00
Chicago White Sox      65,212,500.00
Oakland Athletics      59,425,667.00
San Diego Padres      55,384,833.00
Texas Rangers      55,050,417.00
Minnesota Twins      53,585,000.00
Balt Orioles      51,623,333.00
Toronto Blue Jays      50,017,000.00
Kansas City Royals      47,609,000.00
Detroit Tigers      46,832,000.00
Cinncinati Reds      46,615,250.00
Florida Marlins      42,143,042.00
Montreal Expos      41,197,500.00
Cleveland Indians      34,319,300.00
Pittsberg Pirates      32,227,929.00
Tampa Bay Devil Rays   29,556,667.00
Milwaukee Brewers      27,528,500.00


Total Salaries      2,071,265,943.00
Yankees Salaries      184,193,950.00
% of league Salaries      8.89

[BigRog]

BTW
They are all overpaid prima donnas

Th salary cap should be on how much a player can be compensated instead of how much a team can spend.  A million a year. Not for nothing but they are playing a GAME!  



Then maybe the average family could afford to go to more then three games a year.

I live in Richmond VA (Born and raised in NY) and love going to the Richmond Braves. $3 - $9 a seat
In the middle of june I am going to go watch them play the Toledo Mud Hens! Maybe Klinger will be tere!   LOL

Baseball at a price everyone can afford, go out and have a good time.
I encourage all of you to go see minor league ball.

[snowzerdog]

Why does someone need a half million dollar house except for status.  Wouldn't a 125,000 house be just as comfortable.  As George Carlin said " A house is just a place to store stuff, get a bigger house you just get more stuff to store there"

[Rand]

Rog, I think we certainly see eye to eye on it. They are definitely overpaid! And you're right, it's almost where you can't afford to go to see a game anymore. Anyway, thanks for the ~ debate. I love talking baseball philosophy.

World Series History: Championships by Club
 Team League Total  Year
 New York Yankees AL 26  1923, '27, '28, '32, '36, '37, '38, '39, '41, '43, '47, '49, '50,
 '51, '52, '53, '56, '58, '61, '62, '77, '78, '96, '98, '99, '00
 St. Louis Cardinals NL 9  1926, '31, '34 '42, '44, '46 '64, '67, '82
 New York Giants NL 5  1905, '21, '22, '33, '54
 Philadelphia Athletics AL 5  1910, '11, '13, '29, '30
 Boston Red Sox AL 5  1903, '12, '15, '16, '18
 Pittsburgh Pirates NL 5  1909, '25, '60, '71, '79
 Los Angeles Dodgers NL 5  1959, '63, '65, '81, '88
 Cincinnati Reds NL 5  1919, '40, '75, '76, '90
 Detroit Tigers AL 4  1935, '45, '68, '84
 Oakland Athletics AL 4  1972, '73, '74, '89
 Baltimore Orioles AL 3  1966, '70, '83
 Chicago White Sox AL 2  1906, '17
 Chicago Cubs NL 2  1907, '08
 Cleveland Indians AL 2  1920 '48
 Florida Marlins NL 2  1997, 2003
 Minnesota Twins AL 2  1987, '91
 New York Mets NL 2  1969, '86
 Toronto Blue Jays AL 2  1992, '93
 Anaheim Angels AL 1  2002
 Arizona Diamondbacks NL 1  2001
 Atlanta Braves NL 1  1995
 Boston Braves NL 1  1914
 Brooklyn Dodgers NL 1  1955
 Milwaukee Braves NL 1  1957
 Philadelphia Phillies NL 1  1980
 Kansas City Royals AL 1  1985
 Washington Senators AL 1  1924
Totals: American League - 58 wins; National League - 41 wins

26! That's just sick! No soup for you!

At least my Cards are in second place with a mere 9...

Man, we got a lot of work to do...

[BigRog]

Really check out a minor league team if there's one near you.
Good baseball, no prima donnas, reasonable prices to watch guys PLAY A GAME.

[lurkr]

i couldn't agree more with you about minor league ball.our local team is the lakewood blueclaws.the stadium is absolutely fabulous,the games are really competitive because these guys are still playing for something.my brother-in-law who lives in greensboro n.c. is a huge fan of the gboro bats who are also in our league,this adds a little family rivalry to the mix.by the way there are no $125,000.00 houses left on long island.the only way i know this is because my wife's family live there.my b-inlaw will never go back,actually he dreads just visiting.later   GO BLUE CLAWS

[BigRog]

It's so funny how things go full circle. My brother is in the hunt for a house on Long Island. We both grew up there. Median price of a house on LI,

$450,000

the facts ma'am just the facts
   Officer Friday

[beeware184]

I love the fact that you are all up on the stats about so many different things!  What a great debate, too!  I really appreciate all the things everyone had to say.  

The Mariners are starting to pick it up, too.

[beemaster]

This is why I follow so few TEAM SPORTS, it just seems NO ONE is ever accountable for performance, at least their salaries never reflect their true worth - other than ticket sales draw.

I always enjoyed one on one sport, golf, bowling, tennis, auto racing (ok, that is a team sort but the driver his life on the line, marathons, mountain biking, olympic events ocassionally (now we have syncronized skating - ugh) but in generally sports where you make money when you are the best at what you do and you go home with less or nothing if you stink.

My Dad told man when I was a kid that "The guy who finishes LAST in any olympic event could have stayed home and drank beer and ate chips and still finished last"

Golf is probably the most interesting statistically speaking - the top ten golfers typically finish in the top ten in nearly every event and gold is big money - Bowlers have serious envy, even the best bowlers earn in a year with a top ten golfer can earn in 4 days at nearly any tour event.

Until your receive a base salery in a team sport and then offer massive bonuses offered on preformance, you will never have exellence across the sports world.

I have the Lakewood Blue Claws, a minor league for Philadelphia (I think) and these guys have a beautiful ball park, affordable seating for the fans and night after night these guys are busting their butts to out-do each other to get their way into the majors. Somewere between their $40K a year in minors and $26 million for the majors something happens to them. Give them a $200K base salary with the potential of making 10 million a year and you'll have player who will be playing like they are sharks with chum in the water. Locl them in to a 10 year contract with no preformance  debits and you are asking for crappy and lifeless players.

Just thinking aloud from a serious laymans viewpoint. But I understand one on one sports, it's like the old joke: two guys are being chased by a lion - guy one says we "have to out run this lion", guy two says "No... I just have to out run you!"

[Bee Boy]

Go cubs!

[TJ]

Oh, I couldn't NOT respond to this one. First the Mariners. They are getting too old. Edgar and Olerud have to go. Build around the young pitching staff. Find some more offense to go with Boone and Ichiro. I hear Bret has an out of work brother that plays 3rd base. Go get him Mariners.

Yankees have been able to buy championship players for a long time. Can you say Babe Ruth?  They are the worst thing about pro sports anywhere. All the stats about payroll are from recent years. I wonder what it was like in the 30's, 40's and 50's. Anybody know?  

Cubs are the team of the future. Everybody loves them-I do. Born and raised a Cub fan. Now that the Wrigley family no longer owns the team, they are serious about winning. As we Cub fans buy more hats and other stuff- they will have more $$ to spend to stay competitive.
They will probably move into the top 3 payroll teams in the next 5 years as they start piling up world series rings. I just hope I never see any of my favorite Cubbies ever become Yankees.

One more thing, lots of athletes are prima donas, but they are paid what the market dictates. We watch them and spend our money. If the players didn't get it, the owners would. I have no problem with players getting all that money. I, for one, would love to be in their position.