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Author Topic: Mites?  (Read 6442 times)
nepenthes
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« on: December 13, 2006, 03:13:41 PM »

How do mites Infest colony's in the first place? huh
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Jorn Johanesson
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2006, 03:42:02 PM »

How do mites Infest colony's in the first place? huh


Drones comming from infested hives. Drones can travel up to 30KM and are welcome in every hive in the summertime. When Varroa was first seen in Denmark, some beekeepers marked some Drones and those was seen 30 km away.

Robbery is the most reason for Varroa infestion.

Swarms from infested hives.

Beekeepers arrogant to the problem! Coursing spread of Varroa!

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Finsky
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 02:33:12 AM »



When Varroa arrived to Finland from Russia, it spread 50 km ( 30 miles) per year what ever we did here. Russians warned 30 years ago us that it is coming but it had allready arrived across the border.  Here is some land corners where varroa have not yeat spread.



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Mici
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 11:03:33 AM »

but where do the mites originate from...it's like they come out of nowhere huh same goes for the SHB
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2006, 11:43:28 PM »

The mites originated from the bees in South East Asia where they transfered to EHB when they were imported into the area.  The drones from the native SEA bees were allowed into the EHB hives causing the intial infestation.  After that they've seemed to gradually incompass the world except for Australia and the lower Island of New Zealand. The ones in the states are got here via drones hitching rides on cargo containers or by imported bees that were infected.
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BeeHopper
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2006, 08:38:03 AM »

This calls for a design of a DRONE Excluder at the hive entrance, allows drones to leave but not return. Keep out Drones from other hives, your drones cannot get back in, but who cares. Would this work HuhHuh?
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Cindi
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2006, 09:40:48 AM »

Hmm...drone excluder, I don't think it would work, they have to eat food, otherwise we would have no mated queens (LOL).  Great day. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2006, 10:55:24 AM »

Hmm...drone excluder, I don't think it would work, they have to eat food, otherwise we would have no mated queens (LOL).  Great day. Cindi


Here's my thought on the matter. Taking in the above account on how mites spread from one colony to another.A Drone fills up for his flight for a gig with a Queen, if he is successful, he dies, if not, he returns to the colony to eat some more and fly again the next day. Now with the Drone Excluder (just an idea in my head) would allow a drone to leave, but not return ( he of course would starve and die). They are expendable, are they not ? The Queen would replenish or maintain the drone population as she sees fit, right ? Now a Drone with a mite riding on his back from another colony could not penetrate a clean colony. Now this idea would go south due to the fact that a  mite infected forager full of nectar or pollen would be welcomed by the guards. Well, enough of my jabbering on  an idea. I am still learning about the mighty mites, sooner or later we will prevail. grin
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abejaruco
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2006, 11:17:03 AM »

BeeHopper, the varroa can run. It has legs.
The drone can´t cross the drone excluder, but they will try and will touch body-body another bees. Varroa are fast, and go up, go down, go in, go out... every go you want.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2006, 02:43:55 PM »

>They are expendable, are they not ?

Everytime you kill a drone, the bees spend the effort to raise another one.  Had you NOT killed the drone the bees could have spent those same resources to raise a worker.  Drones are NOT expendable.  Drones are expensive.

The less drones that are in the hive, the more drones the bees will raise.
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Michael Bush
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BeeHopper
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2006, 03:12:45 PM »

>They are expendable, are they not ?

Everytime you kill a drone, the bees spend the effort to raise another one.  Had you NOT killed the drone the bees could have spent those same resources to raise a worker.  Drones are NOT expendable.  Drones are expensive.

The less drones that are in the hive, the more drones the bees will raise.


OK. I see your point. But what about Beekeepers who utilize the DRONE foundation for IPM control of the mites, removing the frame/foundation and freezing both the drones and mites. Would this be too much for the colony to handle ?
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Mici
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2006, 04:39:22 PM »

nope, beeks around here use this a lot, out of 10 frames, they leave 1/2 of a frame without foundation, that part is bound to have drone cells, and they cut it out before the drones hatch. colonies are doing fine, but who know how much better of would they be if they wouldn't do that.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2006, 07:06:34 AM »

>But what about Beekeepers who utilize the DRONE foundation for IPM control of the mites, removing the frame/foundation and freezing both the drones and mites. Would this be too much for the colony to handle ?

Too much?  No.  But they would have raised workers instead of drones, with those same resources which would have made more honey.  I figured drone trapping would be my fallback plan for not treating, but so far small cell has been adequate and I'm not willing to waste all those resources if I don't need to.
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Michael Bush
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BeeHopper
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2006, 03:20:31 PM »

>But what about Beekeepers who utilize the DRONE foundation for IPM control of the mites, removing the frame/foundation and freezing both the drones and mites. Would this be too much for the colony to handle ?

Too much?  No.  But they would have raised workers instead of drones, with those same resources which would have made more honey.  I figured drone trapping would be my fallback plan for not treating, but so far small cell has been adequate and I'm not willing to waste all those resources if I don't need to.


Yep ! More Workers, More Honey = More Honey, More Money  grin

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Cindi
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2006, 03:33:19 PM »

Hmm..reading all the posts about the drone stuff.  I have to agree with Michael about the bees wasting resources in raising drones with the drone foundation.  I don't think that I would encourage excessive drone raising, I would go for more workers.  Treat with formic acid in spring and use other natural methods for the varroa control and eradication throughout the summer.  Then the bees would not have to raise so much drone in the drone cell foundation.  My thoughts on this.  Great day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Jorn Johanesson
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2006, 06:12:03 PM »

Danish Varroa strategy recommended by Danish beekeeper association (DBF):
Formic acid in spring
Drone removal in summer
Oxalic acid in boodles autumn.

those few drones removed aginst what is normal loose of field bees is nothing.
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Jorn Johanesson
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2006, 06:27:01 PM »

I forgot to tell what should be well known, that Varroa prefer Drone brood.
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Cindi
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2006, 09:37:43 PM »

Jorn, I've seen pictures of the drone comb frames, it is green, so it is very noticeable.  Is this the colour of the drone comb frame in your country too?  I would think it would be world standard.  Great day. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Jorn Johanesson
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2006, 10:12:33 PM »

I have not seen plastic dronecomb here in Denmark. I  have cut out half a foundation plate and then let the bees build the dronecells themself. I have placed those frames as a second from left very uniform, so that it is easy just to lift supers of and pull out the frame with drones, then with a knife cut the dronepart out and put the frame in again. a one minute operation. I have average used 5 hours a hive total included honey harvest, honey handling and honey sale. We calculate handling 500kg honey ourself, the rest goes to honeypackers.

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Jorn Johanesson
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2006, 05:57:15 AM »

 have not seen plastic dronecomb here in Denmark. I  have cut out half a foundation plate and then let the bees build the dronecells themself. I have placed those frames as a second from left very uniform, so that it is easy just to lift supers of and pull out the frame with drones, then with a knife cut the dronepart out and put the frame in again. a one minute operation. I have average used 5 hours a hive total included honey harvest, honey handling and honey sale. We estimate handling 500kg honey ourself, the rest goes to honeypackers.

Sorry this is a redo of the message. Drone combs are bought whole like other foundation, and placed in a frame like other foundation. When bees are preparing to Swarm you can let them build the dronewax themself from scrats.

You can vertical devide a frame in three parts and use for swarm control. 1/3 normal foundation, 1/3 nothing and 1/3 drone wax. As long the bees build normal brood wax in the empthy 1/3 the bees will not swarm. When they start to build Drone wax in this they will likely  prepare to swarm. the 1/3 with dronewax you just  cut out leaving a strip  as guide.

be aware that bees always are able to trick you and do what they like to , whatever you think you have under control.

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