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Author Topic: when to split  (Read 5712 times)
teebo
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« on: November 20, 2006, 08:56:48 AM »

I need help on when to split a hive before the honey flow or after.I have 3 hives and are trying to get to 10,i also want to get 4 or 5 gals. of honey next year. whats the best way
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2006, 09:23:22 AM »

Teebo:

Welcome to the forums, please add your location in the profile section to let us know where you are - it greatly helps us understand what type of season (how long and short) you experience there. It makes our helping you out much easier - thanks.
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2006, 07:07:11 PM »

I would split them just before a flow. afro
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2006, 08:40:50 PM »

That depends on what kind of split you do and what you hope to accomplish.  A cut down split right before the honey flow will get you more honey AND a split.  An even split right before the honey flow will get you a split that will build up nicely for winter, but probably NO honey.  A split right after the main flow might build up enough to winter and won't make any difference to your crop.

More about splits:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2006, 10:02:08 PM »

I usually split just before a honey flow, bees will usually swarm when crowded which can mean at any time of day, flow, or no flow.  If given the opportunity I like to boost a split by adding a thrid frame of brood to the nuc after the first frame of brood is hatched out.  Doing the splint before a flow means that adding the frame of brood is done at the same time as going to the standard sized box.
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Finsky
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2006, 01:51:37 PM »


I put hives together when honeyflow begins.  It must be 6 langstroth box which is a good foragaer.

Our bees swarm before main flow and there is no need to split them. Flow lasts 3-4 weeks here (July).
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Kirk-o
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2007, 05:00:10 PM »

Do what you thik is Best
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Finsky
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2007, 09:40:54 PM »

I would split them just before a flow. afro

My system is to join weak hives so that I have 6 langtsroth box hives on rape fields.

If you split before flow, you will ruin you yield.
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My proposal

Raise big hives - get big honey

Get laying queen and make a split in the middle of summer

When main yield is over split big hives each into 3 parts and join them into those new nucs.

.
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Zoot
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2007, 10:56:46 PM »

Michael B.

In your monologue about splits (bottom paragraph, last sentence) you conclude by saying "I think it's better just to keep the brood nest open". Are you referring to keeping an unlimited brood nest here? Are you suggesting this as a tool for swarm prevention?
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2007, 12:16:46 PM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm

Read the section on "Preventing Swarming"

I'm saying that you can get a better crop by preventing the bees from trying to swarm (by keeping the brood nest open) than you can by doing splits to prevent swarming.

Splits for swarm prevention are a last resort when you find them already trying to swarm.
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 10:36:46 PM »

Keeping the brood nest open = unlimited brood nest.  Give the queen as much room as she needs to produce the brood she wants.  A stronger hive will gather more nectar and produce more honey.  As long as bees are kept busing producing more bees and drawing comb they will not usually swarm.  If their ability to raise enough brood, draw more comb, have no more nectar/honey storage area, or they quit drawing comb they will turn to a swarm as a population release.
One way to continually cause an increase in the brood area is to pull frames of honey and nectar in the brood area and replace with empty frames so that the bees must draw out the new frames.  If this is done with timely additions/removals of supers then the bees keep working an don't enter the swarm mode.  Once they start into a swarm mode the only way to prevent one is to do a split moving the old queen to the new hive.
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Moonshae
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007, 11:30:34 AM »

How do you keep the bees drawing in successive years, when all the frames are drawn already? Simply removing wax from some or all of the frames in a box, just to keep them busy?
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 05:25:37 PM »

 
One way to continually cause an increase in the brood area is to pull frames of honey and nectar in the brood area and replace with empty frames so that the bees must draw out the new frames. 

When you pull the frames with honey and nectar...what do you do with them?  Do the store them, and save them for another potential hive?

I have only one hive, which now has has a second brood box...I won't have to worry about this splitting thing yet will it??
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2007, 09:30:53 PM »

It is almost inevidenable that a given hive will swarm.  But swarming can be reduced to once every few years if several types of swarm control measures are used at the same time.  1. Supering in a timely fashion. Use the 80% rule.  2. Allowing the queen to have as large of brood production area as she needs.  3. do not use excluders on hives you don't want to swarm.  4. Pull the frames between the brood frames and the outside storage frames in the brood nest and replace them with empty or foundation frames.  This keeps the bees building wax in the brood nest--a very effective tool in swarm production.  5. Do controlled splits (swarms).

IMO if you're not using all of the above technics you're not going to be successful stopping swarms.
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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2007, 10:45:29 PM »

4. Pull the frames between the brood frames and the outside storage frames in the brood nest and replace them with empty or foundation frames.  This keeps the bees building wax in the brood nest--a very effective tool in swarm production.

This means, if I have an 8 frame, to remove the 2nd and 7th frames out?  What will be in them?  Won't there be brood in them?  I am feeling confused again...hhhmmm...
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2007, 02:16:47 PM »


One way to continually cause an increase in the brood area is to pull frames of honey and nectar in the brood area and replace with empty frames so that the bees must draw out the new frames. 

When you pull the frames with honey and nectar...what do you do with them?  Do the store them, and save them for another potential hive?

I have only one hive, which now has has a second brood box...I won't have to worry about this splitting thing yet will it??

I would love to know the answer to this questions as well.
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2007, 02:38:42 PM »

IF it is honey, freeze it over and store it, this way it waits until i extract-so i do it all at one time.
but usually, if you are doing this, you probably have sugar-honey so ..again freeze over and store-like you said, for a potential split.

but..number of this frames can get big so...when you extract, extract this frames last and feed this "honey" back.
also i'm thinking about using this type of "honey" for making vinegar or something... just..don't sell it under pretension it's honey.

*storage-store honey in an airtight bag ore something as long as it is airtight, otherwise those frames are doomed-wax moth.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2007, 11:24:17 PM »

I was talking in reference to a 10 frame hive where the outer 2 frames on each side of the brood chamber are often stores.  In my situation where I use all medium 8 frames, I pull the outer brood frames move them to the center of another box and replace them with frames of starter strips.  You can pull the outer frames but it won't be as effective as pulling the 2nd frame in.  I also do not use excluders so putting frames of brood into the 4th, 5th, or even 6th super is not a problem for me.  If there is still brood in the upper supers when I harvest I just pull the outer storage frames from the brood nest and move the frames down and add the stores frames to the harvest.
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