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Author Topic: Wax moths in stored frames  (Read 2706 times)

Offline Greg Peck

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Wax moths in stored frames
« on: November 19, 2006, 11:46:43 PM »
When storing unused frames that are empty (drawn but no honey) do I need to take steps to prevent wax moths? They are stored in my basment. I have had them in the basment for about 2 weeks. If there were going to be any moths would they have allready become apperent?

Thanks
Greg
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Offline Robo

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2006, 09:04:16 AM »
I would protect against wax moths.  I found more than normal amounts of moths this year on my supers when I put them into storage after letting the bees clean them from extracting.  Depending on how cold your basement gets, you may be OK until Spring.  Otherwise you should address it now.  Depending on how many you have,  you may be able to deep freeze the frames in your freezer and then bag them. Another method is to remove the frames from the supers and hang them so the get sunlight,  this supposedly prevents the wax moths since they prefer darkness.   You can also use Certan http://www.beeworks.com/uscatalog/details/certan.asp. I think there is a guy selling bulk BT (same as Certan) in the trading post. Or go to the hardware store and look for moth balls or crystals with Paradichlorobenzene as the active ingredient (DO not use Napthalene) just make sure you air them out good before giving back to the bees.
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Offline Cindi

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2006, 09:42:03 AM »
When storing unused frames that are empty (drawn but no honey) do I need to take steps to prevent wax moths? They are stored in my basment. I have had them in the basment for about 2 weeks. If there were going to be any moths would they have allready become apperent?

Thanks
Greg
We were taught that when one extracts the honey, if you have the room in a deep freeze to bag these frames and freeze them for 3 days, this is good prevention and absolutely kills all possibility of wax moth.  I purchased an extra old freezer just for this purpose and store it out in my barn when not in use.  I don't know if this would work or not, when the bees are not flying, (because it is too cold).  If you live in an area where it is freezing outside, why could not someone put their entire supers outside for a couple of days?  I would think that this would work.  I don't k now for sure, just a thought.  Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline Robo

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2006, 10:02:05 AM »
If you live in an area where it is freezing outside, why could not someone put their entire supers outside for a couple of days?  I would think that this would work.  I don't k now for sure, just a thought.  Cindi

This would work, but only until Spring.  I store mine in a shed with no heat and they are fine until Spring when it starts to warm up.  At this point, it is too early to give them back to the bees, but warm enough for the wax moths to go to town on them.  I suppose you could bag them in the middle of the winter, but this becomes quite impractical if you have more than a dozen or so.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2006, 10:02:03 PM »
>When storing unused frames that are empty (drawn but no honey) do I need to take steps to prevent wax moths?

You need them outside where they will freeze.  In the basement where they WON'T freeze is the worst possible place to store them for the winter.  Seal them up well enough to keep out the mice.  You won't have any wax moth problems as long as it's freezing occasionally at night.  Early spring there usually aren't many moths yet.  After that get them on the hives and the bees will keep the moths out.  If you want to "treat" them with something, Certan is a bacteria (Bt) that will kill the larvae.

http://www.beeworks.com/uscatalog/details/certan.asp


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Offline Greg Peck

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2006, 11:36:26 PM »
Thanks for all the info.

I am still wondering about how the moths "arrive" on the frames. can they lay dormant for some time then hatch and start eating? Are these moths everywhere and might happen to get in the house and then go to the frames? I guess i am wondering if they are not on the fames now after several weeks of being in the house where are they going to come from?

I am new to all this and just trying to understand the workings of these pest.

Thanks again,
Greg
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Offline Robo

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2006, 10:39:49 AM »
Are these moths everywhere and might happen to get in the house and then go to the frames? I guess i am wondering if they are not on the fames now after several weeks of being in the house where are they going to come from?

Yup, they are just about everywhere.  It is not the moth that causes the damage, it is the larvae.     Your frames probably have eggs on them from when they were outside. If they are warm enough they will hatch and start eating the wax (and wood).
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2006, 07:39:39 PM »
>I am still wondering about how the moths "arrive" on the frames. can they lay dormant for some time then hatch and start eating?

I don't know how long the eggs can go before they hatch but the moths can get through tiny cracks so they will get in no matter what you do and probably have already laid eggs anyway.  But if it freezes hard enough it will kill the moths and the eggs and the larvae.

> Are these moths everywhere and might happen to get in the house and then go to the frames?

They are everywhere.  I once made the mistake of storing supers in my basement.  That was five years ago and there are STILL moths in my basement.

> I guess i am wondering if they are not on the fames now after several weeks of being in the house where are they going to come from?

If the boxes have not frozen and you have drawn comb in the supers, I guarantee you have some wax moth larvae living in them right now.  After they emerge and lay eggs, you'll have LOTS of wax moth larvae in them.

>I am new to all this and just trying to understand the workings of these pest.

Freezing is the best way to get rid of them, which means the boxes are much better off outside where they will freeze.
Michael Bush
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Offline gottabee

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2006, 09:12:43 AM »
Storing frames indoors was a bad idea for me as I kept them in the basement. A first year beekeeper I made many mistakes. When I saw wax moths hatching on them I treated them and put them in storage sealed up. Another mistake. I think the best idea is store them outdoors and use paradichlorobenzene nearby to repel the moths. Seems to work for me.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2006, 11:58:45 AM »
Personally I hate the smell of PDB as do the bees.  If you doubt that try putting some PDB in a hive you're trying to get out of a tree and see how fast they leave.

Certan doesn't stink, doesn't cause cancer (which PDB has been shown to do) doesn't leave residual smell for a long time etc.

http://www.beeworks.com/uscatalog/details/certan.asp
Michael Bush
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Offline Greg Peck

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2006, 01:32:46 PM »
So I never got around to moving my empty frames outside to let them freeze. I looked today to make sure that there were not wax moths on them and found a little nest type thing between two frames. There did not appear to be to much damage. I would say about a 2 inch oblong hole in two frames. A big worm and a few little guys was all that I could see. I took the frames out side and will probably just store them in a small shed I have out there all winter.

Two lessons learned today... 1. don't store used frames in the basement. and 2. Do what you guys tell me to do right away. :)

Here are some pics




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Offline pdmattox

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2006, 01:39:57 PM »
Greg, freeze them frames.  If you have one already that you can see what about the explosion of them when the other egss hatch.  I lost countles amouts of drawn foundation due to not knowing how destructive they are (note how valuable this asset is).

Offline Greg Peck

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2006, 02:32:16 PM »
I took them all outside to freeze.
I have been checking the frames every few days to make sure that this did not happen. This is a month after removing the frames. I would not have thought that they could last that long without being seen but apperently they can.

Anyway thanks for the info.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2006, 05:51:59 PM »
You always have more than you see.
Michael Bush
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Offline mick

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2006, 03:21:22 AM »
Is that propolis in some of the cells?

Offline Greg Peck

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2006, 06:52:38 AM »
I am no sure what it is Mick. I thought it was pollen though. I let the bees rob the honey out of the frames after I took these off. They took everything else but not the stuff in these cells.
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Offline Cindi

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Re: Wax moths in stored frames
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2006, 10:07:48 AM »
Is that propolis in some of the cells?

Mick, I think what you may be asking about is not propolis, I think it is pollen.  It comes in some many, many different colours. I don't think that propolis would be put into cells, that would  not make any sense.  The bees use propolis for sealing cracks in the hive.  I think that when they are working in the dark in their hive and they see any kind of light, for example, they close that up so it is dark.  I would think that seeing light to them would mean that a draft could come through.  I think that they are "smarter" than what we understand.  I am sure they use propolis for many other things, but that is the main purpose of this resin.  Great day. Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

 

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