Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 22, 2014, 11:21:53 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Building Frames  (Read 4839 times)
Paraplegic Racehorse
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 146

Location: Richland, Benton County, Washington State

Kilted beekeepers unite!


WWW
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2007, 01:26:09 AM »

Just got my order of woodenware from Western Bee (shipping to Alaska is hideously expensive!!!). The boxes are going together pretty smoothly - I've only broken one out of 15 so far. However, the frames, I can see are going to drive me batty.

Here's the situation: I have 600 frames to assemble, this season. I'm going foundationless, so I'm not worried about embedding and all that nonsense. The woodenware did not come with nails or instructions. Advice on assembly I have been able to find suggest A) nail across the frame through the side-bars instead of down/up through top/bottom bars and B) use a frame assembly jig.

Crux of problem: What size nails to use and how do I find them in the quantities I'll need? My local hardware store has bulk nails in narrow-and-long or fat-and-short but not narrow-and-short. Also, how do I sideways nail the frames with a jig (that I will have to construct because I refuse to pay for such a thing). It appears they are designed to nail the frames from top/bottom down/up, but this is entirely contrary to popular advice.

Argh! I am confused.
Logged

I'm Paraplegic Racehorse.
Member in good standing: International Discordance of Kilted Apiarists, Local #994

The World Beehive Project - I endeavor to build at least one of every beehive in common use today and document the entire process.
ChickenWing
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 61


Location: Temperance, Michigan 41°48' N. Lat.


« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2007, 02:40:46 AM »

Just got my order of woodenware from Western Bee (shipping to Alaska is hideously expensive!!!). The boxes are going together pretty smoothly - I've only broken one out of 15 so far. However, the frames, I can see are going to drive me batty.

Here's the situation: I have 600 frames to assemble, this season. I'm going foundationless, so I'm not worried about embedding and all that nonsense. The woodenware did not come with nails or instructions. Advice on assembly I have been able to find suggest A) nail across the frame through the side-bars instead of down/up through top/bottom bars and B) use a frame assembly jig.

Crux of problem: What size nails to use and how do I find them in the quantities I'll need? My local hardware store has bulk nails in narrow-and-long or fat-and-short but not narrow-and-short. Also, how do I sideways nail the frames with a jig (that I will have to construct because I refuse to pay for such a thing). It appears they are designed to nail the frames from top/bottom down/up, but this is entirely contrary to popular advice.

Argh! I am confused.

Here is what I do....  I have made my own assembly jig.  Just look at the links given earlier for a plan.  It helps alot.   

When I am building them in the jig, first of all I glue everything.  Then, I put the first nail down through the top bar or bottom bar, like you said, this is easily done in the jig.  This will hold everything together.   Then when I take them out of the jig, I shoot one more nail at each corner, from the side bar into the top bar, and bottom bar.  So to answer your question, nail both up/down, and sideways.   

As far as nails, with that many to make, I would invest in a nailer.  If you don't have an air compressor, another alternative is an electric brad nailer.   I have an Arrow ET200.  It costs about $60 dollars, and works great.  There are other less expensive ones also, but I'm not sure how well they work.   Anyway, with this type of nailer, you buy packs of brad nails that are designed to load into them.   I use 18 guage, and 1'' long for frames.    It works like the air nailers, just aim, hold it firmly against the wood, and pull the trigger. 

If you want to nail by hand, you should ask the hardware store for "wire brads".  These are the short and narrow nails you are looking for.    8 per frame x 600 frames = 4800 nails.   Hmmm, I would definately get the nailer if you can swing it.   LOL   
Logged
jimmyo
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 161


Location: Indiana, USA


« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2007, 07:24:24 AM »

I soak the ends of my frames in water so they don's split when I nail them.  I use Gorilla Glue. I put the glue on the bars and the ends are already wet because I'm soaking them in water. 
 If you look around you can find a brad pusher. It allows you to shove a brad by hand exactly where you want it.  They cost about five bucks.  sometimes you still have to tap them in with the hammer but the hard part is done by then.
 jim
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6391


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2007, 07:25:04 AM »

A) nail across the frame through the side-bars instead of down/up through top/bottom bars


The cross nail should be in addition to the nails going down thru the top bar

Quote
B) use a frame assembly jig.


I have built both types and find Ross's to be easier to build and less complicated to use then the door spring version.
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/

Quote
Crux of problem: What size nails to use and how do I find them in the quantities I'll need?


If your building that many frames, go with an air stapler, I regret I did not switch earlier.

I've put a ton of frames together with one of these.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40116

If you still want to hand nail,  check out the bee catalogs,  they sell nails and tell you what size to use for what.

Quote
Also, how do I sideways nail the frames with a jig. It appears they are designed to nail the frames from top/bottom down/up, but this is entirely contrary to popular advice.


The cross nail is in addition to the up/down nails and is put in after the glue has dried and the frames are removed from the jig.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13563


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2007, 09:48:57 AM »

If I had 600 frames to put together I'd buy a 1/4" crown stapler and a jig.  Both are available from Walter T. Kelley, but considering shipping you might want to find them local.  These take a compressor (which everyone needs anyway for tires).  You can get by with a brad nailer, but with the 1/4" crown stapler you can use 1 1/2" staples for boxes and 1" staples for frames.  It's also nice to have some 5/8" staples for thin material where you don't want the staples coming through and 1 1/4" staples for when you want to nail two 3/4" boards without the staple coming through.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Mklangelo
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 403


Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin - USA (42° 57' N 87° 54' W)


« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2007, 10:43:40 AM »

I put all my frames together on my Kitchen table...  Of the 120 of them I assembled, I broke only one.  I did it with a Framing hammer too...   (for those that don't know what that is, Carpenters use it for rough work, it's big, long and heavy)  Next year I'll invest in a jig and a smaller hammer... It did work just fine for the boxes though.

I'm sort of a clumsy person at times so if I can do it, you can too!

OMG I'm reading these instructions and I used 8 nails in each frame.  Two at each end of the top bar into the side bars and two at each end of the bottom bar into the side bar (going straight up). And of course I used Titebond II Premium weather proof wood glue on the joint of the top bar and side bar.
 I didn't do any cross nailing.  Are my frames going to fall apart when their full of honey and comb?


Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniStates_both/language/www/US/WI/Milwaukee.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Milwaukee, Wisconsin Forecast" height=100 width=150>[/url]

If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.
  - Robert X. Cringely
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13563


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2007, 01:57:19 PM »

The glue will hold more than the nails.  If you glued them, they should hold together fine.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15026


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2007, 02:58:02 PM »

compressor and some kind of nailer or stapler.  i have two.  the kind that MB likes and a stapler.  have used both.  don't know which i like best yet.  one for each hand?   evil

they are fun...and no one bugs you while you use it!  smiley
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Bubba
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 14

Location: Maplesville, Alabama


« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2007, 04:24:34 PM »

A 1/4 in crown stapler is great! The only problem that I have had is that some of the end bars waunt to splinter. Just take them and soak them in water for 10 min before starting to work with them then pull them out and set them in a handy place. This also aids in the moisture that is needed for the resin glue's to set up. ex (elmers ultimate and Gorilla glue)
Logged
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2007, 10:36:50 PM »

I nail 1 down into the end piece from the top bar.  Then I nail 2 into the end of the top bar from the end piece.  I've never used glue and have been building frames since 1959.  They don't pull apart and most parts can be salvaged when some frames eventually break--oops.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Ross
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 512

Location: Greenville, TX


WWW
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2007, 03:55:04 PM »

simple frame jig...
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/framejig1.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/framejig2.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/framejig3.jpg

Stock both ends with endbars, add glue, insert top bars and nail, flip over, add glue, insert bottom bars and nail.
Pull out the two slides, dump them out, and repeat as needed.
Logged

www.myoldtools.com
Those who don't read good books have no advantage over those who can't---Mark Twain
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.338 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page July 18, 2014, 08:19:06 AM
anything