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Author Topic: So The Dems Kicked Butt - in the House  (Read 4389 times)
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« on: November 08, 2006, 03:29:43 PM »

American's spoke and told the Executive Office that we don't need to wait until 2008 to tell the President that the populous isn't for this war. Now Donald Rumsfeld is stepping down (BREAKING NEWS) it seems that is a bit too late to give the Repubs a chance to stand against change.

But don't think that people voted necessarilly for Liberalism and Democrats - this was not a vote but an anti-vote against the 6th years of a preceived "C Student" in a world where "A Students" ruled. People want there to be vote power for the politicians they put in office, not a majority who hold all branches of government - yes, even the Supreme Court (was carved greatly in the last 6 years) appears to the general public has found a comfortable spot in the back-pocket of the Executive Branch.

This is all coming from a slightly right of center conservative, who frankly has rarely failed to disappoint all but the far right. I had a Hospice Visiting Health Aid tending to my Mom's needs who said one day "Don't you just love "W"?" She was mesmorized by the smirky, simple minded spew that we have grown to accept - personally, I prefer to hearing radio addresses, so I don't need to count how many smirks per minute he reaches.

People spoke out, doesn't mean I like the outcome, but I understand why we have seen a great change across the land. This war (no matter what your belief) leaves us supporting our troops AS SHOULD ALWAYS BE THE CASE but unsure of why we are sending more and more and claiming that all is going well and nearly as planned.

I know if we leave Iraq, civil war will breakout and the unbalance of power will lead to genecide - none of the "political writers" even know what to say any more and surely the politicians can't speak for themselves without putting their Kerrys in there mouth - lol.

I'll end by saying that if on 9-11 the United Nations had be hit by two planes, it would have been a different world, but I'll bet you one thing, it wouldn't have been fought in Iraq.
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2006, 06:14:45 PM »

iraq aside, it has never been a good thing in my life when the libs control the govt.  they don't yet....they may by tomorrow......but speaker pelosi is only slightly less nauseating than president hillary. tongue

the republicans did a lot of stuff wrong.  even so, when it comes to spending, security, and war, they have a better track record than the left.  we would have the troops to put in iraq if we had not had 8 years of cutting the military and intel  in half....and might not have needed the military if 8 years of billary had not put us in this position in the first place.....

the bright side is that even though i am deep into comfort food today, there is a part of me that is proud of our system.  we vote.  we accept the results and the consequences.  we don't have to worry that we'll wake up tomorrow and find tanks surrounding our white house and a coup underway.  we may not like who won this time, but there will be another election and if these people screw up, we can toss them too.  life goes on........
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2006, 08:14:39 PM »

For the past few years I've been somewhat disappointed with our system of balloting.  The historic elections yesterday showed that the American people can still create change if they desire it enough, in spite of Diebold, long lines, rain, dirty tricks, etc. and etc.  Not only by the change in power in the House and Senate, but by how the voting on referendum issues went regarding abortion, same-sex unions, eminent domain and the like.  I see America returning to its center.  Twelve years of insanity are over, born of Gingrich's confrontational bluster and adopted by a party in power as standard operating procedure.  It's a wonder Clinton was able to accomplish anything at all during his administration, hamstrung as he was by the constant partisan roadblocks put in his way. 

I'm really not trying to slam any particular party, but the fact is that any party that holds all the power is going to go nuts.  Take Philly as an example of Democratic excess.  With that in mind, our political culture has been insane for the past 12 years.  The Republican majority was a failure.  Hopefully, we can now get back to leaders that operate within their budget, examine problems carefully before acting rather than lashing out in anger and vengeance (or in political expediency), and understand that we share this world with everyone else and that there is no other place for anyone to go.

I surely hope so!

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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2006, 08:38:32 AM »

Don't worry, kathyp, when the new party in power shows that they too are just politicians and just as susceptable to corruption, we'll have another change in another 12 years or so.

Who knows what will happen in 08, but till then we'll have the usual bickering and yay! gridlock! With the departments at odds, nothing will get done and they won't be able to spend money.  And nothing will change in Iraq until the people there can do it themselves.

The more things change the more they stay the same.  Just the veiw of a conservative cynic.
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2006, 10:27:24 AM »

Quote
Just the veiw of a conservative cynic.

we should start our own party  cheesy
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2006, 10:47:23 AM »

I know I have said it before somewhere. It would be better to have no parties at all. Then they could do what is right for the people instead of what is right for the party.

And why the bother anyway? They are going to end up in the same place. Just one would get us there faster. One will cost us more to get us there. And we won't like it when we get there.

So cheer up.
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2006, 01:15:14 PM »

Quote
we should start our own party

I'm with you jerrymac, it won't matter much.  Besides, we already have enough parties...libertarian party, green party, socialist party, democrat party (oh oops, I just listed that one twice!)  tongue  just kidding!  rolleyes

I'm too busy with life to deal with politics.  Maybe that is why I'm a cynic.

I'd much rather be with the family, beekeeping, fishing, gardening, yardwork, housework, cleaning toilets, etc than be thinking about politics  grin

(and trying to be funny!)

-rick
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2006, 06:04:36 PM »

The only problem with the American form of Government is that we've allowed 2 major parties to control nearly everything.  We need to broaden the base by empowering more parties, but to do that we need solid candidates who can be taken seriously while attracting suffiecient ballot power. to become established.
Those who currently hold such power are people like Condi Rice, Barack Obama, Arnold Swartzenagger, & Bill Gates to name a few that come quickly to mind. 

Every we've had the same party in control of both houses the American public usually ends up with the short end of the stick.  When the same party controls both houses and the Presidency it's even worse.  We fair best when one party controls the house and the other the Senate and newly elected President from either party. 

But to get the best government we need more flexability and boardness of ideas and for that we need more established parties.  Only then, when no party has a majority, can we really get serious about what's best for American instead of each party attempting to feather its own nest.

The only hope I see out of this election is that those who were elected seem to come from the central idealogy of American instead of far right or far left, which means that the real American has made itself heard.  Now we have to hope that those who hold the reins of power (ie Pelosi in the house) are smart enough to firgure out the real message instead of looking at things simply as blue or red. 
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2006, 09:15:53 PM »

We need to broaden the base by empowering more parties, but to do that we need solid candidates who can be taken seriously while attracting suffiecient ballot power. to become established. 

Agreed.  That takes money, or the ability to raise money, and lots of it.  Like Ralph Nader's organization, or Ross Perot.  And folks would have to be willing to dis-invest themselves of their prejudices and sworn beliefs, and recognize that there are more choices than Coke or Pepsi.

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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2006, 05:38:03 AM »

i think the dems won when Al Gore beat W.

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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2006, 07:54:13 AM »

i think the dems won when Al Gore beat W.





Just an another example of those libs that can't let go.

So where is the mass media fenzy about election fraud and voter irregularilties this time?  Oh, I forgot, that only happens when the dems loose. 

I wonder why the Rebulicans didn't steal this election too.
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2006, 07:59:07 AM »

American's spoke and told the Executive Office that we don't need to wait until 2008 to tell the President that the populous isn't for this war.

Better check history there.  Maybe the message is just the opposite.

Quote
But according to the media, this week's election results are a mandate for pulling out of Iraq (except in Connecticut where pro-war Joe Lieberman walloped anti-war "Ned the Red" Lamont).

In fact, if the Democrats' pathetic gains in a sixth-year election are a statement about the war in Iraq, Americans must love the war! As Roll Call put it back when Clinton was president: "Simply put, the party controlling the White House nearly always loses House seats in midterm elections" — especially in the sixth year.

In Franklin D. Roosevelt's sixth year in 1938, Democrats lost 71 seats in the House and six in the Senate.

In Dwight Eisenhower's sixth year in 1958, Republicans lost 47 House seats, 13 in the Senate.

In John F. Kennedy/Lyndon Johnson's sixth year, Democrats lost 47 seats in the House and three in the Senate.

In Richard Nixon/Gerald Ford's sixth year in office in 1974, Republicans lost 43 House seats and three Senate seats.

Updated: Sorry Kris I forgot that you can never trust anything a conservative says without checking the facts first. We can only afford that to the likes of moore and gore.  Anyway, all the election results are available at anwsers.com.  Though I can't guarantee they are not part of the vast right wing conspiracy too Wink
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2006, 09:31:11 AM »

Robo,
I concur. Wink
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2006, 09:59:46 AM »

robo!!  and here i was trying to be really nice and not make that point   evil

Quote
So where is the mass media fenzy about election fraud and voter irregularilties this time?  Oh, I forgot, that only happens when the dems loose.


s'ok.  i was a bad girl and got a post pulled last night on another topic.  i'll have to behave so i can stay and play   cool
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2006, 10:32:03 AM »

i am a liberal. i guess i just got my butt kicked. o well. wasn't the first nor will it be the last time.

here in VA the dem, Webb, won but not by much. It's amazing how just a slip of the tongue on Allen's part with his makaka remark can have such a drastic effect...like Howard Dean's screaming thing.
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2006, 11:09:28 AM »


Better check history there.  Maybe the message is just the opposite.

More Quote: In fact, if the Democrats' pathetic gains in a sixth-year election are a statement about the war in Iraq, Americans must love the war! As Roll Call put it back when Clinton was president: "Simply put, the party controlling the White House nearly always loses House seats in midterm elections" — especially in the sixth year.

In Franklin D. Roosevelt's sixth year in 1938, Democrats lost 71 seats in the House and six in the Senate.

In Dwight Eisenhower's sixth year in 1958, Republicans lost 47 House seats, 13 in the Senate.

In John F. Kennedy/Lyndon Johnson's sixth year, Democrats lost 47 seats in the House and three in the Senate.

In Richard Nixon/Gerald Ford's sixth year in office in 1974, Republicans lost 43 House seats and three Senate seats.

Gee... Let's see

Franklin Roosevelt - WW2 (thrust into a war, not by our choosing)
Dwight Eisenhower - Korean Conflict ( war over - headed for Cold War)
LBJ (year 6 - Viet Nam) (war building)
Richard Nixon (year 6 - Viet Nam) (our men still not home but coming home soon)
George W. Bush (year 6 - Iraq) (Rumsfeld says yesterday "We have no real exit strategy, none that will work, anyways!"


SEEMS TO ME THAT I'm a BIT RIGHT - American's vote in the SIXTH YEAR (as you said) against a WAR that we as a civilized country would rather not be in (especially the "last 4 wars" and nearly the "last 4 years" too) I'm a Conservative fellow (I hope everyone here understands and believes that) and I know we do what we believe "In the LONG TERM" will be right, I'm just saying in this election (as in pasts) Americans have lost faith in the leadership's ability to get us out of situations that (more today than ever) is in our faces with live stats and video-feeds.

There is nothing wrong with a mix up. Surely your own post points that out. Because again and again, as a great Country, we have over come such politic matters and still thrive in our inaint ability to adapt to the parties the voters elect to represent them. I think that is a good thing. It doesn't mean I'm happy the Dems. have both houses - I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT I NEVER SAID THAT!!! Peace!

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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2006, 12:34:11 PM »

i have a theory on iraq.  it kind of came as an epiphany after reading Steven Tanners history of Afghanistan and after talking to my brother who was there in the military and is now back there with a civilian company doing robotics.

no country has ever successfully fought in Afghanistan.  doesn't matter if you are taking about ancient history or the USSR.  we also know that when the USSR fought there, they drew in thousands of radical Islamic fighters.  that history could not have been lost on our leaders.  so what to do?  maybe open another front that will draw those same fighters but be in a place where we can actually engage the enemy.  a place with no mountain caves and no winters that keep people from fighting for 1.5 the year.  the only place we could legitimately do that, was Iraq.  they were in violation of the cease fire and the UN resolutions. 

that's the readers digest version of my theory.  it may be all wet, but if I'm right, i worked.  if we are going to fight these people somewhere, Iraq beats the heck out of Afghanistan.  even though that Talaban is still a PIA in Afghanistan, the people we really want are in iraq......and we can pick off the Al Qaeda leaders that still hang out in Pakistan and Afghanistan as they pop their heads up.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2006, 12:54:31 PM »

nice theory if you need to rationalize a costly mistake.
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2006, 01:34:49 PM »

nope.  i thought Iraq should have been done the first time they broke the cease fire.  it is a possible answer to the question of why we didn't concentrate on Afghanistan before doing Iraq.

remember, Hitler broke the treaty of  Versailles many times and no one stopped him.  he poked and poked at it and when he found there were no consequences, he proceeded to try to take over all of Europe.  it is popular among the left now to say the Saddam was not dangerous.  that is not what they said during the 90's.  in fact, they thought he was a great threat....but failed to act.  failure to act when you believe there is a threat, is not good leadership.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2006, 01:38:16 PM »

 i am not a defender of saddam. i think good leadership means that when you attack you have a sound strategy. i mean beyond shock and awe.
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2006, 01:53:28 PM »

Quote (Bill Mahr - extreme Liberal, HBO)

"I pity any country who suddenly find themselves being called a regime by the George W. Bush Administration."

Now... I don't think even the most Conservative member can disagree with THAT statement.

My whole fear is NOT what happened in 2006, but who will have there hats on the table for 2008. Is John McCain really the best hope for the Republicans and do you really think an Obama/Hilary ticket is WHAT YOU WANT on the Democratic side?

Are we really hurting so bad that these are our best of the best to pick from people? I'll agree with Jerrymac  shocked with his idea that a two party system creates a divide and no one is happy with either how we get there or what we get when we do. But we keep rolling on and on, shining a beacon that may need a brighter bulb than it has screwed in it now, but a beacon all the same. God Bless American and all Free Countries of the World. Not to forget the oppressed of the Planet: they, most of all need to see that there are systems that work and strive for the same degree of relative freedoms.
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2006, 02:51:10 PM »

Quote
i think good leadership means that when you attack you have a sound strategy.


 Smiley  there is one thing certain about warfare and that is that the "plan" usually will not work.  i am certain that we did not plan to have thousands slaughtered on d day.  we did not plan to drop our paratroopers behind enemy lines in France and drown them in the swamps.  we did not plan to lose 1000's taking a rock in the Philippine bay.  even so, we did not quit.  a few good men scaled the cliffs and took out the enemey...a few good men crawled out of the swamps and fought in france... and a few good men, greatly out numbered, took out the Japanese on Corregidor.

just because things don't go according to plan, you do not throw in the towel and give up the fight.  we have done that in the past and the enemy has been emboldened because of it.

i found this a few years ago.  i thought it was a great reminder that there is nothing that happens that has not happened before.  the trick is to learn from history.

http://www.jessicaswell.com/archives/000872.html

it's been fun guys.  gotta get some work done smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2006, 03:15:22 PM »

Quote
i think good leadership means that when you attack you have a sound strategy.

   i thought it was a great reminder that there is nothing that happens that has not happened before.  the trick is to learn from history.

and good leaders will learn.

I'm not real happy with the 2 party system or the choice of candidates either. it always seems to be a vote for bad or worse.
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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2006, 03:49:26 PM »

Deceased Mayor of Philadelphia Frank Rizzo once quoted when asked about the two candidates running after his term was over "This Election, your only choice is to "NOT vote" for the EVIL of TWO LESSERS!" I think you said it well Randy and so did Frank Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2006, 06:45:01 PM »




Quote
But according to the media, this week's election results are a mandate for pulling out of Iraq (except in Connecticut where pro-war Joe Lieberman walloped anti-war "Ned the Red" Lamont).

In fact, if the Democrats' pathetic gains in a sixth-year election are a statement about the war in Iraq, Americans must love the war! As Roll Call put it back when Clinton was president: "Simply put, the party controlling the White House nearly always loses House seats in midterm elections" — especially in the sixth year.

In Franklin D. Roosevelt's sixth year in 1938, Democrats lost 71 seats in the House and six in the Senate.

In Dwight Eisenhower's sixth year in 1958, Republicans lost 47 House seats, 13 in the Senate.

In John F. Kennedy/Lyndon Johnson's sixth year, Democrats lost 47 seats in the House and three in the Senate.

In Richard Nixon/Gerald Ford's sixth year in office in 1974, Republicans lost 43 House seats and three Senate seats.

ETC.  ETC.



Quoting Ann Coulter?HuhHuh?

I'd check it for accuracy before relying on it . . .

-- Kris
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2006, 08:49:24 PM »

Elections are won and lost these days on posturing not substance.  We need to demand substance in order to right the ship of state.
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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2006, 01:57:26 AM »

I'll try and keep this nice.

   I usually don't discuss politics or education (I've been told I'm too tough on my views that a school should be measured by how many graduates are prepared for college, not how they did on placement tests or that teaching is more than just having knowledge, you have to be able to reach your students) but I've been disappointed (no Thesaurus to find a better word) by both Dems and Reps.  I don't say that lightly.  I believe that the two party system is here because too many only vote that way.   My family get into heated discussions about both.  My mother is a 'yellow dog' and only believes what they say, everyone else is corrupt as do other family members while the other half believes all dems are corrupt.  Me?  I just read the Sunday paper and see how my  (they are mine whether I voted for them or not) senators and representatives voted.  If bills are shot down or vetoed I want to see what kind of pork was added and by whom.  I've been told that I am quite naive. shocked grin 

    I believe the government runs better when there is no one party controlling both houses of Congress AND/OR the White House and the only time they run this country better is when they are not in session. cheesy  Remember, they're supposed to work for us.

There's my half a penny.

David
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 01:59:45 AM by qa33010 » Logged

Everyone said it couldn't be done. But he with a chuckle replied, "I won't be one to say it is so, until I give it a try."  So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin.  If he had a worry he hid it and he started to sing as he tackled that thing that couldn't be done, and he did it.  (unknown)
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2006, 06:24:26 AM »

David:

What wasn't NICE about that? We should expect our children to learn, not just be test savvy. We should expect our teachers to ready them for higher learning, not just squeak by on some sliding scale that pits afluent schools with those in inner-city schools.

We should see Democrats and Republicans in powerful positions within a Whitehouse no matter what the affiliation of the Executive leader - only the best of the best, not the best of the party should be in cabinette positions, but instead we hear every President who loses the Legislative branches call for Bi-Partisanship when making the laws of the land. I think it at that point when all fails: no-one works openly without bias toward the non-controlling party, no matter how logical their ideas may be, BECAUSE each time the Congress swings power, the new party in control plays CATCH-UP. Every change over is the chance to restore things the way they ere, rarely to make it better - sadly, that is what happens and we rarely see change - no matter who is in power, it is like we are always pulling out dirty underwear and putting it back on rather then grabbing fresh clothes from the closet.

It is a table-tennis game where Dems serve the ball until the Repubs score and then volley changes. In the mean time, ammendments are scripted (actually all changes in law and landscape are well prepared for submission in the even a party shift occurs) and then much of the following years, the key players try to undo what the previous leadership tried undoing from the past opposive Congress.

So it is always 2 steps back and rarely one step forward. I have a mental problem digesting such different philosophies, how could Americans divide so different on topics that involve its own people?

I agree that there are only two major parties because no one seems to think a third, forth, fifth party could win consistantly enough to expect control. Having indendants or Liberatarians, Socialists, etc., in the government in a rag-tag representation for any or several states does little to change or swing votes on any issue. Having a controlling third party is far from a pipe-dream, so it tends to stop there.

I would pose those that there must be GREAT LEADERSHIP out there somewhere without the affiliation of the two big-boys on the block. But Washington is a battle for TURF and the stakes are always high. The closest person I saw to making a difference (albeit a bad one) was Ross Perot, who I thought had a great following, much more than Enviroment and Consumer Activist Ralph Nadar who always seemed like a zombie, even when he was younger. Parot's big mistake was dragging James Stockdale (prisoner of war, as was John McCain) before the cameras: Stockdale was old and deaf and non-responsive and killed any chance of Perot moving on.

I look forward to the 2008 elections and all that leads up to it. A strong and young carasmatic man like Barack Obama knows he is going to run, he's just waiting for the dust to settle from this election. I could however wait on seeing Hillary debate - although she does a pretty good job of it (I watched her in the re-election debates for Senate) I think Obama would mop the floor with her. But the interesting thing is, these two won't trash each other, they will though trash the others who toss their hats in the ring. Obama and Hillary are going to be the Dems. answer to the Oval Office in 2008 and I don't expect anything to get in their way.

With McCain a front runner on the Repub's side, I can only imagine if the U.S. is ready to put an older candidate in the Oval Office - I think that ended with the Reagan Era. So that means, between now and mid 2007 the Repubs need to find a strong and young candidate capable of standing up to the dems. ultimate fighting machine. I haven't seen a face on the horizon yet, have you?

Hold on to your seats, hope we see someone come out that has more middle of the road conservative ideas, yet still spouts the Rightwing values that will satisfy the Conservatives, yet be enough left to sway the majority of us who fall somewhere in the middle.

If nothing else, I'm hoping for a close battle, I can't see (at least now) the Repubs. rewinning the Whitehouse. There is a snowball rolling and it is called Iraq and the new Congress will milk it for all it is worth, using their air-time on C-SPAN and all the news networks to bash what is left of the right-wing party. This is NOT how I like it, it is just how I see it.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 06:27:53 AM by beemaster » Logged

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