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Author Topic: Russian bees in the US  (Read 5348 times)
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2006, 09:36:40 AM »


Here is a Dutch 3- year reseach on Russian bee http://www.mamamoer.nl/ddb/blz/rapportprimoengels2002.pdf

Russian bees are not so good they are said.


It's been three years and were still not climatically conditioned to you yet Finsky - Evolution is a slow thing. Give it time!  tongue
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Finsky
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2006, 10:53:27 AM »


It's been three years and were still not climatically conditioned to you yet Finsky - Evolution is a slow thing. Give it time!  tongue

Yes, I have studied biology and genetics in University.  I cannot give time because I have not such a mandate.

But what do you mean with still not climatically conditioned to you ?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 10:57:26 AM by Finsky » Logged
Boris
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2006, 08:33:38 PM »

Finsky,

When you (or some one) hear information that in Germany or Denmark, or even in northern states of USA the americanized Russian bees have shown bad results, you should understand at least four moments:
1.The selection was made for the specific future inhabitancy of bees - southern states of USA, but not for the Europe.
2. The result of selection is not the only one breed of Russian bees, but THREE groups with SIX lines in each of group. Thus, now there are 18 official lines of Russian bees in the USA.  And, when someone speak about Russian bees, he should be more specific. For example, GROUP "B" - LIGHT BLUE plus line color: Light Blue+Blue or Light Blue+Red and so on.
The final selection of several lines of Russian bees (by the principle "Best of the best” ) will be made by the end of 2007 ONLY.
3. Mites are different in the different areas of bees dwelling.
4. Very often people refer to the old foreign articles , that contain materials of research prior to the final selection of the Russian bees.

Sorry for my English language.
Boris
« Last Edit: November 16, 2006, 09:54:16 AM by Boris » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2006, 10:03:52 PM »

Finsky:

My statement is American humor - it means your writing and beekeeping style is an aquired Taste. You  look at beekeeping from a profit level because of your beeyard size and business mandates. Many, if not most of the beekeepers here have very few hives and they don't squeeze their bees for any nectar they have left in their crops. They tend to observe, pollinate and enjoy the beauty of their colonies.

That does not mean that in a business oriented yard that different approaches are necessary, but not everyone keeps bees the same - imagine if you lived in a climate where you had 12 months a year of bees flying, wouldn't your operation be different?

My father had a many good sayings, one was: "Life is like a diaper... some times you get pee, some times you get poop - you hope for pee!" Beekeeping is like that, you do what you can, the best way you can do it - add in all the unique factors that surround you and hope for the best. Sometimes you just have to see how things work out and learn from your mistakes.
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2006, 11:15:34 PM »

I'm with you John; In the diaper of life pee is definately easier to clean up after.
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2006, 12:23:54 AM »

Finsky:

My statement is American humor - it means your writing and beekeeping style is an aquired Taste.

I suspected that.

I have not seen the whole Russian bee.

I put the link where reseach was done in Holland.

When Boris teached me Duck to swim, I may tell that I understand globe sites and beekeeping quite well.

I have 20 hives. I am hobbiest. However I like good information. To do first and explane later is very common style.

But I am not going to steal you dreams, do as you like  afro

.
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2006, 02:59:26 AM »

Finsky:

Many, if not most of the beekeepers here have very few hives and they don't squeeze their bees for any nectar they have left in their crops. They tend to observe, pollinate and enjoy the beauty of their colonies.


Oh boy! What is the valua of knowledge and skill if it is same to beginner what he does?   I too observe and enjoy the beaty of colonies and the most I am proud of that I am good in beekeeping.

 What is the picture of US hobbyist:

* feed syrup in summer when bees should gather nectar
* feed dry sugar in winter when bees should be in winter rest
* give water in winter when they need not to drink
* not take honey off because bees need it in winter but not get it enough
* play all the time with varroa even if it is the smallest nuisance in beekeeping.
* formulate all beekeeping, hive constructions, bee breeding, races according varroa.

I get surplus honey from hives on average 160 lbs per hive. Surely it is wrong, but how?  When I started 45 years ago, my nabour beekeepers got about 30 lbs honey per hive and they were proud of that. But hives were in those days really small. They were size of one langstroth box.

Yes, I have nursed aquarium fishes too and I have got even cups from cardinale terta. Neontetra is very easy and nice to propagate.
They need feeding twice a day with living protein. But however aquarium fishes are so easy to learn that they are not interesting after all.

Bees are difficult to nurse. It took me many years before I could extract honey from my hives. 

And now, after all these years I should teach to American hobbiest HOW NOT to get honey from hives. Human mind is very fascinated by humbug. It is not my job to teach it. People have enough skill to it without teaching.

I have propagated this fish and I am proud of it:





 








 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 03:07:43 AM by Finsky » Logged
Boris
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2006, 09:07:55 AM »

"What is the picture of US hobbyist:

* feed syrup in summer when bees should gather nectar
* feed dry sugar in winter when bees should be in winter rest
* give water in winter when they need not to drink
* not take honey off because bees need it in winter but not get it enough
* play all the time with varroa even if it is the smallest nuisance in beekeeping.
* formulate all beekeeping, hive constructions, bee breeding, races according varroa."

Finsky,
I personally  not to do this.   And I am interesting to read your
beekeeping experience.  Do you have your personal web-site?

Thank you.
Boris



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Finsky
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2006, 09:52:49 AM »


Finsky,
 Do you have your personal web-site?


No, I have not
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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2006, 10:06:59 AM »

Finsky:

I have propagated this fish and I am proud of it:





Congratulations. I noticed the fish has your eyes and there is something else I can not quite see. In the US we give out cigars on happy occasions. Now... go forth and multiply  tongue

Just kidding you Finsky, I'm having some fun is all - this post has been long and a little heated, you need not be defensive. Your ways work very good and you get great yields from short seasons.
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2006, 10:21:46 AM »

I noticed the fish has your eyes and there is something else I can not quite see.

It is possible. We had on sunday father's day in Finland. My boy gived to me as present painkiller Burana and then I took vodka later. No wonder that mys eyes shine like tedras'.
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2006, 11:53:08 AM »

Finsky,

Never heard of Burana (is is a homeopathic medicine?) but you should try chasing a percocet pill with a glass of beer. I had surgey on my knee the other day and did this without thinking...thought I was going to die for about 15 minutes, then it eased off into a truly unique high that I probably won't try to repeat ever again.
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2006, 12:29:27 PM »

I saw a recipe for a Goldschlaauger and Percocet Jelloshot one time - thought it an interesting combo  rolleyes

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Boris
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2006, 01:34:09 PM »

Let's talk about topic - Russian bees in the US.

Who else can provide the real comments about Russian bees in the US?
Click  here to see some comments:
http://www.beebehavior.com/beekeepers_comments.php

Thank you.
Boris
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2006, 01:41:56 PM »

Boris, if you want to talk about the TOPIC so bad, at least include your LOCATION in your PROFILE - I don't think that is too much to ask.

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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2006, 11:55:47 PM »

Boris,

I made an earlier reference to Bjorn Apiaries. It's run by a gentleman named Mike Thomas and his girlfirend Ida. He has posted some very scholarly data on his russians. I used to have a link but deleted it a while back. When I was first interested in the topic I found his info to be extremely interesting. I wouldn't hesitate to buy russians from him if I wanted them.
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« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2006, 10:33:52 AM »

Bad Beemaster, My bee hive location was posted here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/live_camera_winter.php

P.S.  Finsky, if you do not have your own experience with Russian bees - please do not send any junk to this topic.

Boris
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 12:09:49 PM by beemaster » Logged
Finsky
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« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2006, 10:59:03 AM »


P.S.  Finsky, if you do not have your own experience with Russian bees - please do not send any junk to this topic.

Have I?

I have education of biolocical researher. But I like to cover stupid things soften with humour. Why other beekeepers may write here what ever b*.*t and I write junk.
I am capable to read biological scientific text more than many here. Why I would send junk?  Is this free forum or not?

I am just delivering information on Russian bee that it is not so fine as it is wanted. That is wrong I know that but.....  afro  I have education of biological researher.

You see, I am good in  English humour but I cannot stand American humour.

Boris: Get rif off soon those Russians! Get yield, make money!


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Finsky
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« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2006, 11:52:46 AM »


About one beekeepers' mistake

I serious opinion is that beekeepers give too much weight on Varroa. Many arrange whole system race ( hive construction, style of life ) around varroa even if it is not necessary.  It is surely very bad needed that beekeepers develop bee stocks which have better resistance against varroa and other diseases.   To me chalk brood is bad and I have started to breed resistancy against that. Varroa is under control.

Varroa is really my friend. It killed bad German black bees from our country and after that beeping has bee very amusing. Inseminated queens have make another amusement into beekeeping.

When we look for mite resistant bee stock they are:

1) Africanized and their take stock in USA
2) Russian bee
3) Carniolan bee stocks in Europe as good as Russian against varroa
4) Elgon bee

The bad thing is that it is difficult to keep your stock clean when you have other beekeepers near. I have had some years Elgons, but when they cross with Italian they are not nice to handle. This year I have got more stings than during my earlier 15 years altogether.  I killed my first hive this year because it gave 200 stings during 3 days and most in face.

My opinion is that when bee stock have selected according pleasant features, it is unnatural when you get a stock which does not swarm or not fight for it's hive.  Italian and Elgon are such when they are pure. I think that they have some anomalies in their genes when they do not act naturally.

When two very different stocks come together they genome will be healed. They begin to swarm and attach on disturbers.  Then they have natural instincts.  That happened to me.

But what is the value of these breeding?  I have got in my yard genes which help against chalk brood and hives forage pollen better than in the stock of my neighbor.

My neighbor beekeeper get better yields, his hives are calm, they do no swarm and so on. I have opportunity to change my whole yard to that stock as I have had. But I am not satisfied on that Italian stock.  I try better.

But as I said. Varroa is not problem to me at all.  I pay no attention to that creature. I just kill it and do not calculate how much I got.  It works.

To day I have 6 bee races or strains. My opinion is that it is same what they are if hives are big, calm and healthy. They honey yield depend on pastures what I pick in the south east corner of our country.

If woods and meadow are full of nectar even  3 frame mating nucs forage honey which I am obliged to extract.  But if landscape is short of nectar, it is same how good hives you put there. It happens nothing.




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beemaster
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« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2006, 12:03:11 PM »

Hey Boris:

I didn't realize I needed to surf the entire Internet to fine locations of members when they could simple enter them in their profile. Forgive me my ignorance.

I hate to be the THUMBSCREWS around here (but frankly it is a necessary, albeit sometimes thankless and misunderstood job) that said, sorry if you find anything I say or Finsky tries to educate us with below your own visionary prospectives, but if you don't like it when a man tries his best to either help or debate you on a topic in a healthy and respectful way - please don't hesitate to take up residence else where.

Or, as my Father would probably put it "Don't let the forum door hit you in the butt on the way out!"

Enjoy the forums, but if you can't, please EXIT STAGE LEFT!

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