Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
April 16, 2014, 09:48:28 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Bees not taking sugar water  (Read 5341 times)
pdmattox
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1117


Location: lake city, florida


WWW
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2006, 07:40:53 PM »

I would not paint the inside of the hive, outside only.
Logged

Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13466


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2006, 09:02:09 PM »

I NEVER paint the inside.

But then I seldom paint the outside:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stoppainting
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/EightTenEightHives.jpg
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2006, 09:50:49 PM »

Quote from: Greg Peck

Finsky, about putting the bees in one HB. What do I do with the bees stores in the upper HB most are not capped. How do I go about getting the bees out of the top HB. Also I need to move this hive about 200 yards from its current location at some point. Would I be better off moving it now in the cold weather or wait till spring when things warm up?  


Bees generate warm in their beeball and their respiration rises up and moisture condensates in cold combs. During the winter syrup will start to ferment. Bees will be sick and you loose you colony.

You may extract the syrup from combs and cast it away. It is not so expencive. Perhaps 20 lbs sugar. Or you store it in a can and add there rdry  sugar so it will not ferment.

The hive is best to move when it is time to make cleansing flight or during winter when they do not fly any more.
.
Logged
Zoot
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 466

Location: Dickerson, MD


« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2006, 10:20:30 PM »

The problem with poplar arises when it is exposed to standing water and unable to dry out completely and quickly (the undersides of hive boxes for instance). It will rot away in a heartbeat.  While more expensive, fir or any of the cedars will repay the investment with their longevity.

I'd paint the outside of poplar boxes thoroughly. Not as much of an issue with high grade cedar, etc.
Logged
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2006, 01:30:52 AM »

Grek send me more pictures. It seemed very clear that colony had too much room. I valuated that colony may be pressed to 5-6 fames for winter.  There is screened bottom and no inner cover. So warm air escapes from ordinary bee area and they are not able to handle syrup in cold hive.

And Harrisburg Pa in in quite cold winter area. It is time to get hive in winter condition.
Logged
Trot
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 196

Location: Sudbury, Ontario, Canada


« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2006, 08:49:27 PM »

Greg,

don't know about open SBB in your area..?  But one thing kind of bothered me from the start: Judging from your pictures - you have no inner cover?
Finski finally noticed also. So, IMO the bees are cold, that is why Finski believes that the bees are not strong enough... ?
You said that you are handy? Quickly build yourself an inner cover. In the rim, cut an 3" X 6 mm top entrance.  That said and done, put the feeder pail of 2:1 (you keep writing 1:2 ?) on top and only one empty on top of that...
It is good idea to weigh the hive to see how much food they have? Use scale with the hook on a stick. The total weight of 2 body hive should be 50 to 60 kg !  That means 25 to 30 kg on side or back, times two...
When pail is off, put on inner cover a sheet of teen-test, ( pressed newspaper/wood product) not the one used to sheet the outside walls of houses, cause that one is impregnated with tar. You get the clear stuff. On top of this put a piece of Styrofoam, about 1.5" thick. this will prevent condensation on inner cover in cold weather...
Wrapping? Your choice.  Tar paper, with cut out for top entrance - very important!!!

Regards,
Frank
Logged
Greg Peck
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 388


Location: Harrisburg Pa


WWW
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2006, 09:43:41 PM »

Thanks again for the input.

Frank, I do have an inner cover and I had it set up as you described with the inner cover on the top of the top HB then the pail feeder on top of the cover over the hole. The bee inspector told me to put the pail on top of the frames because he thought that the bees were not going up into the hole to get to the feeder. It probably was true that the bees did not go into the hole but that was probably because they were not taking the sugar due to getting natural sources. I did not notice any increased usage once the pail was placed on the frames. He did not indicate how long to keep it this way but he probably only meant to do it for a little while or something.

You indicated to use Teen-test. I am not failure with this product. Is there another name it is also know by and where do you get it. Local hardware store?

I will be moving the bees into a single HB as Finsky instructed. I would have done it the other day but I wanted to take some more pics for Finsky and make sure it was the right move.

The weather here is to be in the 40’s and 50’s this week. What is the coldest that I could move the bees into one HB? Would it be better to just make the move in the cold or wait to see if it warms up above 60.

I am feeding 2 parts Sugar 1 part Water. I must have been typing it backwards.
Logged

"Your fire arms are useless against them" - Chris Farley in Tommy Boy
Semper Fi
www.gregsbees.com www.secondfast.com/gregsworkshop/ www.secondfast.com/bees
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2006, 11:39:53 PM »



When you generally put hive in winter condition, every gap between frames should be full of bees - to lowest pats of frame.  If not, take exra frames off and put medium wall.
Logged
Trot
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 196

Location: Sudbury, Ontario, Canada


« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2006, 11:15:47 AM »

greg,

inspector should have known that at this time of the year is not good idea to be without inner cover if nothing else - because of lack of top entrance, which is very important when bees work the sugar feed, (getting rid of excess moisture)

This teen-test is also called  " Homasote " but is lately hard to get, without asbestos/silica added. Needs to be pure paper/wood mixture, kind of fluffy, (it wicks out moisture which forms where warm and cold meet)
You can look for this stuff in lumber yard, Home depot?
I could not get it this year here in Canada. So I was looking for old-fashioned ceiling tiles. They used to be made from this stuff. But they are also now full of glass wool and silica which is carcinogenic for you and not good for bees.(made in China)
I have, by chance, found in the pre-cut section of the lumber yard, this 2'X4' pieces of CORK-board !  The kind used to pin on notes in schools and offices. It's about half inch thick and you cut it on table saw to the size of the hive.  It's a bit more money but once you have it it will last forever...

About the move? It will have to be your call. I wouldn't move nothing when bees are in a cluster, is very stressful for them.  When temp is around 60 is OK, but I personally do not open nothing below telescopic cover, this time of the year!  Cause, bees have now propolized all the cracks and crevices for winter!  If you break it up they will be distressed cause it's too late for them to get propolis and fix it up. They may get chilled if it gets windy!?

I thought so, that it was a typo about sugar mixture...
Don't worry too much, you're doing OK. People here will turn you in the right direction. Just like they say: "Two heads are better than one!"

Regards,
Frank
Logged
Greg Peck
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 388


Location: Harrisburg Pa


WWW
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2006, 02:06:27 PM »

I went today to take the pail feeder off and to move the inner cover down. But I noticed that there were very few bees actually in the top HB so I quickly removed it. There was maybe a 100 or 200 bees I had to shack and brush off the bottom of some of the frames but for the most part they all were in the bottom HB. So that is done. I don’t know for sure if the queen is in there but I was not going to go digging for her as it was in the low 50’s.

Finsky, you said to let he bees rob from the other frames if they need. Do you mean to set one of the frames from the top HB  near the hive for them to take from?

I have purchased some Styrofoam insulation board that I intend on using to insolate the outside of the hive with tomorrow.
Logged

"Your fire arms are useless against them" - Chris Farley in Tommy Boy
Semper Fi
www.gregsbees.com www.secondfast.com/gregsworkshop/ www.secondfast.com/bees
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6343


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2006, 02:20:03 PM »

I have purchased some Styrofoam insulation board that I intend on using to insolate the outside of the hive with tomorrow.

Greg,

I would not recommend putting the insulation on the outside of the hive. On the top as Frank suggests is a good idea to help prevent condensation dripping onto the cluster.   If you do the outside of the hive,  it will prevent the sun from warming up the hive on sunny days which allows the bees to move the cluster to new stores.  If you want to wrap, use tar paper.  It helps eliminate any drafts thru the supers,  and also raidates the warmth from the sun into the hive quite nicely.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2006, 02:52:27 PM »

I don’t know for sure if the queen is in there but

I saw larvae in your pictures. You  have a queen there.

Look then, how many frames bees occupy. You may make middle wall into the box. It helps a lot in wintering and outside styrox.
Logged
Greg Peck
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 388


Location: Harrisburg Pa


WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2006, 12:49:10 AM »

It helps a lot in wintering and outside styrox.

Finsky, Are you saying that is does help to insulate the outside of the hive with Styrofoam?
Logged

"Your fire arms are useless against them" - Chris Farley in Tommy Boy
Semper Fi
www.gregsbees.com www.secondfast.com/gregsworkshop/ www.secondfast.com/bees
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2006, 02:15:52 AM »


Finsky, Are you saying that is does help to insulate the outside of the hive with Styrofoam?

Yes, many have used it here during winter. It hepls greatly during spring build up too.
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6343


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2006, 06:31:23 AM »

There is a difference between using styrofoam hives and placing stryofoam on the outside of a wooden hive.
Furthermore, with a top entrance for ventilation you aren't keeping heat in anyway.  But you are preventing the sun from heating the hive.

I would suggest reading this ->http://www.beeworks.com/informationcentre/wintering.html
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2006, 08:01:11 AM »

There is a difference between using styrofoam hives and placing stryofoam on the outside of a wooden hive.



Robo, you talking about such thing which you do not know.
insulating plates on outer side of wall diminishes 30% food consumption. I had 25 years solid wooden boxes where I afterwards put insulating plates. After that insulating no colony died by starwing. Later I byed styrox hives.

Look at the picture. I have wintered bees in those uninsulated boxes in front of picture. http://bees.freesuperhost.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/Kuva_051.jpg


Quote
Furthermore, with a top entrance for ventilation you aren't keeping heat in anyway.  But you are preventing the sun from heating the hive.




Absolutly wrong! Top enrance is extremely   necessary. And sun does not shine at night when it is coldest.

In our country sun does not heat hives during Ochtober to end of February. Hive generates 23 C temperature in the ball. It does not get sun heat.
In winter we may have too months clouds that we cannot se sun not at all.


Logged
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2006, 08:10:01 AM »


 On the top as Frank suggests is a good idea to help prevent condensation dripping onto the cluster. 

Dripping on the cluster is not possible because heat comes from winterball, heat goes up, spreads vertically when it reaches inner cover. Then dew point comes in coldest corners and edges of the hive.

I can see that happen in my wooden inner cover during winter. The center of inner cover is dry and edge areas are moist. Then warm transmit moisture through insulation into gap between outer and inner cover. But of course not if insulation does not transmit moisture

Question is, where is the dew point, where is cold surfaces where moisture forms droplets.

.
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6343


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2006, 08:38:45 AM »

Robo, you talking about such thing which you do not know.
insulating plates on outer side of wall diminishes 30% food consumption. I had 25 years solid wooden boxes where I afterwards put insulating plates. After that insulating no colony died by starwing. Later I byed styrox hives.

Finsky,  you are not the only one with experience here.   I DO know what I have tried and what has worked best for me.  I HAVE placed styrofoam on the outside of hives and they DID NOT do as well as others right next to them wrapped with tar paper.

Quote
Absolutly wrong! Top enrance is extremely   necessary. And sun does not shine at night when it is coldest.

Read my post again.... I did not say top entrance where bad or where not needed.  I said they let heat out.    Sun does shine during the day and provides a great heat source. Ever walk into a insulated building in the winter before noon that has no heat?

Quote
In our country sun does not heat hives during Ochtober to end of February. Hive generates 23 C temperature in the ball. It does not get sun heat.
In winter we may have too months clouds that we cannot se sun not at all.

Well in our country sun shines almost every day and provides an excellent source to radiate heat into the hive.

Quote
Dripping on the cluster is not possible  because heat comes from winterball, heat goes up, spreads vertically when it reaches inner cover. Then dew point comes in coldest corners and edges of the hive.

Dripping on cluster IS possible.  Yes it forms in the corners first but as the condensation freezes in can slowly progress inwards. 

There are different methods that work best for different people iin different climates, but I guess Finsky's is the only "right" best.

I will stop adding any confusion to this topic. 

Greg - all the best
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2006, 09:49:48 AM »

Well in our country sun shines almost every day

I believe it. From Hawaiji to Alaska  afro   ... I live on same latitude as  Anchorage.

PS: 65% of US hives are wintered in California.

Our bees are inside hive from October to March all the time. And they are alive after that. Many even here do not know how moisture acts in the hive but they get all hives alive over winter Smiley


That moist hive cannot be that droplets come onto beeball. That is why hive needs upper entrance open. Nosema is the worst which bees get in moist hive.  One guy kept glas plate as inner cover. Of course moisture condensates onto cold surface like in the car or in the refrigerator cooling element.
.
 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 10:04:58 AM by Finsky » Logged
Zoot
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 466

Location: Dickerson, MD


« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2006, 10:45:48 AM »

In some recent visits to nearby beekeepers I noticed an interesting variant on the use of styrofoam insulating panels used by one gentleman who has been in the hobby for about 50 years (of all of the locals he's the only one I know of who insulates some of his hives) -he covers the sides and backs but leaves the front faces exposed. This side faces south and recieves sun all day - which can be frequent here - while the insulated backs and sides bear the brunt of the cold wind which blows invariably from the west and s. west here in winter.

He claims that his insulated hives do consume food at a lower rate and always survive. He said that he feels that there is some heat absorption through the front hive face when the sun hits it and the panels on the backs and sides help to retain it through the colder nights - those hives are measurably warmer.

We also discussed top entrances as I am considering changing to them and he said he had limited expeience. He ventured the theory that they had some advantages and in the matter of heat loss/water condensation he thought there was a trade off: some heat might be lost but probably no more than through the top vent hole you'd be using anyway, and that they would probably aid in ventilation further reducing condensation.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.401 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page April 12, 2014, 04:36:43 PM