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Poll
Question: How many have an Epi Pen
Yes - 21 (42%)
No - 29 (58%)
Total Voters: 47


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Author Topic: Epi Pen  (Read 10555 times)
NCBee
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« on: September 23, 2006, 04:50:02 PM »

How many have an Epi Pen.  Local beekeepers meeting this month, some discussion was made about a class by a neighboring county to become certified to use an epi pen.  This is also part of the master beekeepers certification for our state.  Just curiouse as to how many beekeepers have on handy.
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2006, 04:53:34 PM »

I have to wonder how to answer this one. My friend and his wife live with us and because of his many health problems and alergies he always has the epi pens around, but I don't.  huh Huummmm  rolleyes  Guess I'll vote yes
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2006, 06:36:50 PM »

I had bees since 1974.  I've never even SEEN an epipen.
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2006, 10:59:04 PM »

This is really embarrassing...what is an Epi Pen?

Most people would of course at least Google an unknown term like that so they could quickly gather some sort of knowledge of the subject. I just thought I'd try the old fashioned way and ask....
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 04:36:19 PM »

i keep epinephrine in the barn and in the horse trailer.  almost lost a horse out from under me once when she panicked on a narrow trail over top of a yellow jacket nest.  had to walk her all the way down the mountain side...and i do my own immunizations.

an epi pen is not a bad idea.  if you have guests, or kids play around, it wouldn't hurt.  even a person who has been stung before, can develop an allergy to bee stings out of the blue.  that said, anyone who knows they are allergic, probably already carries one, and the odds of you needing one are slim.

something to talk to your doc about.  

can't imagine a class on it.  not hard to pop a cap and stick yourself or someone else.  guess the class might teach you when to use one, but that should take about 5 minutes.
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 09:03:58 PM »

I myself carry two epi-pens when I venture out to my Bee Yard. At 70 years old and can feel a little slowing down when it comes to doing physical labour and such I feel an Epi-pen is a requirement in my Bee tool box. Fortunatelly I have not had to use the pen but will always carry it even when we go camping in the bush country of Northern Ontario, you never know when you might run into something that could cause you problems.

For those who are unfamiliar with a Epi-pen I would suggest two things:

#1. Talk to your family doctor as he knows your history and whether you can safely use the pen. He will also explain what to look for and how to use it.

#2. Follow this link to all the Epin-pen information about symptoms,what it is used for, how to use it and when.

http://www.epipen.com/

NOTE: These pens are temperature sensitive and should not be left in a car or location where the temp can go high and ruin the Pen. I keep mine at the back door on the kitchen counter where the temp is fairly constant and it is the first thing into my pocket on the way out to the Bee yard,

I say carry one "It is better to be safe than sorry"

Jack
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 05:14:31 PM »

I don't carry a epi pen I'm a beekeeper not a beain surgeon.I have talked to many people who have said they were allergic to bee stings
they say this to me when I'm catching a swarm and there are 500 bees flying around.I was getting a swarm one day and this women came out of Sears the swarm was on the corner of a camper truck I said " there are bees here on the truck you might want to go around the other way she turned and ran screamming bloody murder I think she was allergic to bees
kirko
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006, 01:36:58 PM »

i am seriusly thinking about buying-having something against beestings, i mean the real deal, not just to ease the pain. but just can't find the time to go buy some Smiley  i forget about it. well, when i got bees, like half of the village said they're allergic, but i just don't believe it, maybe a stronger reaction. i myself have a fair reaction to stings, but don't care, i just comfort myself saying-"at least i wont have reuma"
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 04:11:56 PM »

you would only use an epi-pen in case of an anaphylactic reaction.  they are rare.  they are also fatal without immediate treatment.  it'a an odds thing.  

here's how i think about it:  there are lots of things that are out of my control.  because i tend to pick risky careers and hobbies (military and horses), the best i can do is evaluate risk, and try to cover all of the eventualities that i can reasonably cover.

i can't keep my horse from dumping me, but i can wear a helmet.  i can't keep an animal from having a reaction to an immunization, but i can keep the epi on hand.  i can't keep bees from stinging me but i can keep epi (human dose!!!!) on hand just in case.
the epi-pen is the easiest way to do that.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 04:36:59 PM »

Quote from: kathyp
 i can't keep bees from stinging me but i can keep epi (human dose!!!!) on hand just in case.
the epi-pen is the easiest way to do that.


amatuer way.. pha, get rid of bees, now that's what i call getting the odds to a minimum cheesy  Cool
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 05:17:56 PM »

now that wouldn't be ANY fun!!   Cheesy
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2006, 10:42:27 AM »

Ron,

Say hello at the next beekeepers meeting at the Ag center in Winston. I've read your posts on the Guilford forum.

I am registered for the Epipen class. I have what I think are considered local large reactions, and think the class is a good idea. It could save my own, or I could help save someone's life who was allergic.
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2006, 12:41:34 PM »

I worked as a Paramedic for many years and I have seen first hand the results from being able to inject the epi  in an allergic reaction before we would arrive. They have saved many lives and are not that expensive.

Most people know that they are allergic to stings or to "a" sting if severly allergic BUT even those of us that are not severly allergic to a sting or to a few stings probably would be in a case where we were stung numerous times. Case in point; locally we had a beekeeper that fell into his hive knocking it over. Before EMS and the FD arrived he was DOA from dozens of stings and had no known previous allergies.

We are probably all allergic at some point or degree, some more than others.

The redness and swelling we get from a sting or bite are actually mild allergic reactions.

Just my .02 cents worth.
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2006, 09:05:40 AM »

I keep two epi pens.  One where my hives are located and one in my toolbox.  I'm not allergic, and I know of no one who is truly allergic.  An ounce of prevention....  In this litigious society we live in,  anything one can do to cover one's ***, is probably a good idea.  I
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2006, 12:21:39 PM »

What woul be the ramifications giving a epipen out of panic and they weren't actually in shock?
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2006, 01:38:58 PM »

>What woul be the ramifications giving a epipen out of panic and they weren't actually in shock?

A sudden drop in blood pressure and likely death.  Nothing too serious.  Wink
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2006, 02:20:22 PM »

oh...come on now...it wouldn't do much to a healthy person except drive up the pulse, and make them feel crappy.....

now an unhealthy person...might be a different story cheesy
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2006, 03:39:53 PM »

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geut8aoypFHDMBdQBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2N2g2ZzIzBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMTAEc2VjA3NyBHZ0aWQDREZYMV8x/SIG=12gcnecbq/EXP=1160508570/**http%3a//www.musc.edu/pharmacyservices/Drugs/E/Epinephrine.do

"Adverse Reactions Frequency not defined.
Cardiovascular: Tachycardia (parenteral), pounding heartbeat, flushing,
hypertension, pallor, chest pain, increased myocardial oxygen
consumption, cardiac arrhythmias, sudden death, angina,
vasoconstriction
Central nervous system: Nervousness, anxiety, restlessness, headache,
dizziness, lightheadedness, insomnia
Gastrointestinal: Nausea, vomiting, xerostomia,dry throat
Genitourinary: Acute urinary retention in patients with bladder outflow
obstruction
Neuromuscular & skeletal: Weakness, trembling
Ocular: Precipitation or or exacerbation of narrow-angle glaucoma,
transient stinging, burning, eye pain, allergic lid reaction, ocular irritation
Renal: Decreased renal and splanchnic blood flow
Respiratory: Wheezing, dyspnea
Miscellaneous: Diaphoresis (increased)

"Drug Interactions Increased toxicity: Increased cardiac irritability if
administered concurrently with halogenated inhalational anesthetics,
beta-blocking agents, alpha-blocking agents"
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« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2006, 08:36:11 AM »

Ever read the side effects of aspirin?  Even something seemingly innocous as aspirin has claimed lives from allergic reactions or overdoses.
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2006, 09:59:19 AM »

i think that all drugs have AT least this long list of side effects and risks, even natural herbs have it.
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2006, 10:08:11 PM »

my question is where can you purchase and epi pen, cause from what i been told it has to be percription
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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2006, 04:29:21 AM »

Epi pens expire after about a year.  I had one for my climbing medical kit.  It expired and its just not in the buget, beekeeping or otherwise.
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« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2006, 01:48:09 PM »

You need a prescription.  Just tell your Dr. that you're a beekeeper and want one for emergencies.  I asked a friend who's a Dr. so I didn't have to pay for an office visit or anything.  I don't recall how much it cost, though,  I think my insurance covered it.  My prescription came with 2 pens and a trainer pen.
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2006, 08:02:02 AM »

I have two.My wife keeps one with her all the time .She has allergic reactions to several things.I keep one at the house just in case someone needs it.I would like to have the medications that are used just for the pain of a beesting.(for children or guests).
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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2006, 03:15:14 PM »

Ok, there seems to be alot of questions about Epi pens but only guesses as to the answers.  I am an EMT (Emergency Medical Technician).  I will try to clear up a few of the facts.


*** An Epi Pen is a preloaded and premeasured one dose syringe that contains the prescription drug Epinephrine and is usually used in the treatment for anaphylactic shock ***

1. If you do not know how or exactly when to use and Epi Pen.... THEN DON'T!!!! You can KILL someone by using it incorrectly!  I would think a responsible doctor would cover the use of an Epi Pen for at least 15 minutes before writting a prescription for one.

2. Epi Pens do NOTHING to help with the pain at the site of a bee sting.

3. Epi Pens are to only be used when:
     a. A person has an allergy to something. (like a bee sting)
     b. The person is exposed to the allergen (like a bee sting)
     c. The persons allergic reaction to the allergen results in anaphylactic shock.  (Anaphylactic shock can be characterized as a severe allergic reaction caused by hystamine produced in the body that results in many adverse conditions... one of reactions is a swelling of the throat causing a partial to complete blockage of air passage.)

4. Epinephrine does a few different things... in the treatment for anaphylactic shock two of the most important things are that it is a bronchodilator (opens up the bronchi in the lungs- helps you breath easier) and that it is a vasoconstrictor (narrows/constricts/shrinks the blood vessels and arteries).  These help to lessen or eliminate the swelling in the throat that can cause airway blockage and lead to death.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confussion about Epi Pens.  I really didn't know that bee keepers were ever required to have or use an Epi Pen unless they or a member of their family had a severe allergic reaction to bee stings.  This kind of amazes me, because there should be at least a minimal amount of training on how and when to use them before someone gets one.  By most of the comments by the people that say that they had Epi Pens, it looks like either there was no training given, or the information was forgotten.

**** The most important thing to remember is that if you have a SEVERE allergic reaction to a bee sting (anaphylactic shock)... CALL 911 immediately! Epi Pens don't always work!  Actually, they don't work alot of the time! (some medications block the effects of the Epinephrine).  EMS can still save a life when the Epi Pen doesn't work.  Even when it does work... the symptoms can still return in as little as 5 minutes.  Make sure your Emergency Services are on the scene!  ****

Thanks for reading,

Keith
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2006, 03:32:40 PM »

Keith:

Great post with very valid points. Also, welcome to the new forum - not sure if you visited befor, but this is day one of our more secure and full-featured forum software.

I keep a Bee Sting Kit, a bit less powered than a full epi-pen with a small syringe but also the tablets, luckily I have had 2 expire and maintain a valid 3rd and indeed my doctor was informative in the use, he literally went over the instructions with me.

I know being informed can always save lives, hopefully your post will inspire more people to research the epi-pen, if not through a dioctor, then through the directions or the web. Welcome aboard.
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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2006, 06:29:18 PM »

I always keep a fresh Epi Pen in the house. I have many friends and three I know of are very allergic. Some don't have a clue. It's better to have an Epi Pen,and not use it, then to need one, and not have it.
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2006, 07:04:05 PM »

>I really didn't know that bee keepers were ever required to have or use an Epi Pen unless they or a member of their family had a severe allergic reaction to bee stings.

They aren't required to have one.  I've never even seen one.
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« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2006, 11:16:23 AM »


At a health and safety workshop I raised the question of having an epi-pen available should a member of the general public exhibit an allergic reaction while on our premises.  The problem seems to one of liability.  Each person should be responsible for carrying their own epi-pen.  However it is well documented that a person who has never had a reaction to stings, all of a sudden has a sever one and goes into shock. 
As a result of our becoming such a litigious society at times  it seems like we have shot ourselves in the foot
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« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2006, 12:52:49 PM »

Joanne:

In NJ we have a waver-law for acute rescue. It works something like this. Let's say a man's car is on fire, a passerby sees it and has no choice but to bust out the other man's window to get him out of the car. In the process, glass from the window cuts the trapped man and he needs 100 stitches after he is pulled out, he can not sue the recuer because of his valliant attempt to save the man's life.

This also goes for broken ribs when CPR is given, etc. The same law though enforces that EMTs, doctors and other medically trained people are REQUIRED to assist in any accident they stumble across in their travels, or IF FOUND OUT they did nothing, they are liable for litigation.

As a check and balance, I think it is a good law. It allows AND forces people to be humane to others without fear of being sued - unless of course they are the fleeing EMT or doctor who turns his head because he has a dinner party to go to, if someone spots that person driving pass the accident, he is in very big trouble. And morally, I agree with this law.
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« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2006, 06:26:24 PM »

Thanks to all.  Like they say: "One is never too old to learn!"
This sure applies in my case...
I would add that I keep a few hives at my summer home by the lake
and most if not all neighbours are "cityslickers."  So, last spring I mentioned to my doctor on my monthly visit that I would perhaps need an Epi-pen just in case.
Without a word spoken about it, I than proceeded to the Drug store in there it was: In the bag with my other "dope," there were two Epi-pens. . . .
Didn't/don't have a clue how to use them!?
Wife told me to make sure to jab it in the muscle!?
So, that is my training. After reading this, I sure hope  - I don't have to use it.  .  .  .  .

Regards,
Trot
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« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2006, 09:20:00 PM »

In Washington state we have a similar law.  We call it the "Good Samaratin Protection Act."  I you want liability use a epi pen when it's not necessary.  The unnecessary administratiion of a medication by a non-licensed person is a suit waiting to happen.  I believe it falls under the heading of practicing medicine without a license. 
I believe it is better to do without one and rely on 911 as that is a logical and responsible course of action that will negate liability.
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« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2006, 10:11:59 PM »

ya, i don't think you'd want to have the thing and not know how to use it.  it's not worth the time of a whole class, but some instruction is needed.

as for EMT...that's a great idea if you live where they will respond quickly. yes, do call them right away.

 i do stuff with red cross and in all the classes, they teach first aid and CPR as if you live in a city and could expect a response time of 3 minutes or so.  out here, i know i'll be lucky to get a vet, or volunteer fire person, or any help in less that 1/2 an hour.  someone could get here in 15 min. if they were sitting in the station and had nothing else to do.

so....i guess it depends on where you are.  for me, i need to be able to take care of anything that might happen here because i will be a long time getting help.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2006, 10:53:44 PM »

This one's obviously a bit of a conundrum; I mean now that I know what an epi pen is and what it can possibly do I suspect i couldn't live with myself if a loved one or a neighbor was to perish (due to a sting) for the lack of one on hand. On the other hand I've seen too many hideous accidents result from improper/unproffessional handling of medications by self-styled "experts" in the equestrian world to tempt me in that direction.

I'd be curious to see a statistic on fatalities from bee stings by year. Maybe something along the line of lightning fatalities? I really don't know. Interesting subject though.
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« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2006, 06:26:24 AM »

>I've seen too many hideous accidents result from improper/unproffessional handling of medications by self-styled "experts" in the equestrian world to tempt me in that direction.

I figure the Epi-pen is WAY more dangerous than the bees...

>I'd be curious to see a statistic on fatalities from bee stings by year. Maybe something along the line of lightning fatalities? I really don't know. Interesting subject though.

There is no way to seperate "bee stings" from "wasp stings" in the statistics, but, before AHB the numbers per year were in the single digits.  It's now (because of AHB) made it to the double digits.  But every year somewhere between 45,000 and 50,000 people die in car accidents.  Your horses (and mine) are far more dangerous, no matter how gentle they are.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2006, 12:11:04 PM »

good point about the horses!  one of the magazines had a breakdown of beekeeper deaths due to stings.  don't remember which one.  maybe someone still has it?
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« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2006, 04:49:52 PM »

I have two on hand, in the house but easily gotten to.  One an adult dose and one a child's dose.  We have a lot of visitors and I just feel better knowing that if someone does go into shock and can't breathe after a sting (from bees or anything else) that we can treat while waiting for the rescue squad.
On another note, it's amazing how many people say they're "allergic" to beestings.  When asked what their allergic reaction is, they invariably say that the area stung swells and gets itchy following the sting!  That, of course, is the normal, non-allergic reaction to a bee sting.
In the process of keeping bees, by the way, I have discovered that my raw honey is absolutely the best treatment for cuts and scrapes ever.  It beats bacitracin out hands down.  I've had cuts that wouldn't heal that, when treated with my honey, scabbed over in 24 hours.
Gotta love the bees,
Terry
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« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2009, 12:40:39 PM »

I know this is an old thread, but I was searching out where to get stingz kits or Epipen and I came across you all.

Yesterday, I was up in the North Back woods, and I do mean back woods and we went to some secret Portage lakes that you had to carry your boats and track through the bush, maybe 70 yards from accessible lake to no accessible.  The fish were outstanding. While this is a bee site, I am sure bee people fish.  The avg Keeper Sunfish/Blue Gill were going 3/4 pound and when the Crappie Started about 4:30, in the exact same water that we fished for hours with nothing but Sunnies and bass, they craps were no less than a 1lb a piece.  As some Thunderheads were rolling in, and us needing to get two john boats and a ton of gear for 7 people back through the woods to our powered boats, the let go. So we stayed under the trees and small boats for it to let up.  Something bit me, I did not feel it, we were bit by horse flies and mosquitos all day.  My mouth and lips were swollen and I did not feel a bit.  I am on Humira, an immunio suppresent, have been for two years, but have not been in the back woods like that since I was a kid in the Florida Everglades.  I have been bit by more bees than I care to think about as a young kid, intentionlly playing with them.  Well, yesterday, my body at almost 50 years old said Enough is enough.  We were 95 miles on 30 mph winding roads to the nearest town of anything open at now, 6pm.  My wife stopped at just about every small place we could and found a bar and a lady sent some men to her house to get me some benydril.  I think it probably saved my life, to be honest and not dramatic.  I quickly swallowed 3 caps, praying that the vomiting would supside long enough for them to dissolve.  From my Sturnum and still a bit today to my throat, I was a mess.  To Top it off, I already have a screwed airway, as I am on bi-pap for Sleep Apenea and my pressures are 17/12 for those that understand that, so you can imagine.  Other than my military time in combat, I do not think anything has ever scared me like that.  I really thought I was going to die. Seeing all those things that I said I would do that I have never done.  Like your life flashing in front of your face and all I could think about was my 18 month old grandchild, I hope just the first of many.

Two things came to my realization yesterday and last night. NEVER be without at least benedryl in my boat at all times, truck and ever car I own now, as well as a Stingz kit or epipen or many.  In my first Iraq visit in the early 90s, we came across some comatminants and we used, were instructed to use our pens. I did not need too, I had no reactions, some did and one died. Surely from the powerful injections we had with us.  The second thing I realized, is I am retiring for good.  I have been fortunate enough if we live NORMAL lives, we are good for a long time, as we have been fortunate, after my military service in business..

It is hard for a man like me, on his own since he was 16 to admit he was scared. I was scared because we were so far out in the woods, I thought, well, what a beautiful place to die and spread my ashes right where I fall.

So, it is a prescription, I thought maybe I could go into Mills Fleet Farm and buy it. Good to know, it will be something I will have in all vehicles for my family and others, just like I have a wallet.

Thanks for the great post all and EMT..

Scott
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asprince
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« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2009, 09:04:28 PM »

What a story! Thanks for sharing.


Steve
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« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2009, 09:15:32 PM »

Glad to hear you  are okay now. That must have been very scary. You are definitely someone who should be carrying an epi-pen at all times.
Strange that you never felt getting bit, I wonder what it was.
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« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2009, 10:19:58 PM »

It's strange that this thread should come forward now. A lady I am mentoring through her first year of beekeeping was stung this afternoon. She went through the class we give here, where we recommend all new beekeepers who haven't been stung recently, ask their doctor about an epi-pen. She lives in the country, so decided it was best to have one. She even took a sting this spring while in town, to see if she were allergic. She didn't react at all. Today she calls and says it's been one hour and she has hives on her torso and her tongue is swelling. I told her to call 911 immediately. They told her to use the epi right then, while she was still on the phone. By the time EMS arrived, the tongue swelling and the hives were subsiding. It's my opinion the epi saved her life. I keep a couple on hand and always will.

Micheal Bush, I guess, has never been in the U.S. Army. If he had, he not only would have seen one, but would have been instructed on how to use it and would have carried it anytime he was "in the field". It is a standard issued item in the field gear.
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« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2009, 10:44:12 PM »



  As far as liability, I just took a first aid/CPR coarse and the instructor was adamant that good Samaritan laws in most states save you from any liability. It will in North Carolina for sure. In fact we trained in using one.  I suppose anybody can sue anybody if the want to, but I think you are protected.

David
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« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2009, 11:52:58 PM »

As a beekeeper, the wife of someone who gets a bit reactionary to beestings and a first aid/CPR instructor, I can see no good reason to NOT have an Epi-Pen. The last set we bought even came with a trainer. They are very simple to use. And, they are not deadly when used on someone who is not having a reaction, at least not as frequently as they are deadly when NOT used. I carry one in my bee kit when I go to the hives.
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A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
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