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Offline COLVIN

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WORMS
« on: September 13, 2006, 08:52:57 AM »
DID A MITE DROP TEST WITH THE STICKY BOARDS AND WHEN I PULL THEM 48 HOURS LATER I FOUND A LOT OF SMALL WORMS 1/4" TO 1/2" LONG. SOME FROM ALL HIVES.
THE WORM IS SMALL IN DIAMETER AND HAS A BROWNISH HEAD. IS THIS THE WAX MOTH LAVA AND IF SO WHAT DO I DO NOW?

COLVIN :roll:
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Offline danno1800

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WORMS
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2006, 11:56:34 AM »
Sounds like wax moth larva. There is a product called, I think, B-401 available form beeworks.com. It is a safe, natural bacteria that infects only the wax moth. You spray it on the combs, they ingest it and get sick and die. Otherwise, you need to give these frames to a VERY strong colony and hope they clean them out for you. Exposing the frames to sunlight will also stop the infestation. I hope that help...these are NASTY to clean up after if they get a foothold and they are THICK this year. -Danno

Offline Michael Bush

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WORMS
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2006, 09:35:57 PM »
Michael Bush
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My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Jorn Johanesson

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2006, 03:45:04 PM »
Give those to the chickens or use as excellent fish bait. Sorry could not resist :)

to peserve the frames, freeze or use the fungus.

Offline Cindi

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2006, 11:26:42 PM »
Sounds like wax moth larva. There is a product called, I think, B-401 available form beeworks.com. It is a safe, natural bacteria that infects only the wax moth. You spray it on the combs, they ingest it and get sick and die.
This must be a similar product as Bt, we use that for the catarpillars on the brassicas, etc., it is safe and non-toxic to animals or human.  Great day. Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline rusty

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2006, 12:58:36 PM »
Hi All
Speaking of wax moth, I visited an out apiary of mine after a couple weeks back in early Oct. There were six British National hives in row. All seemed okay till I looked into the last but one... EEK!! What a horrible mess.

Now this had been quite a stong hive, and I was just feeding up for winter. There was not a bee in sight, dead or alive and no honey at all. I guess that they had absconded, and a few weeks earlier a friend from the village had had a Hollywood Horror Film, type experience when what he thought was swarm settled all over his car. He had to drive away at speed to dislodge them.

I brought the Hive home and, yes Jorn my free range chickens had a feast, I blow torched the hive body and burnt the frames, but what a vile mess, and those maggots were about a an inch long. Yuk Yuk and Yuk again!
Just thought I'd tell you this little tale!
Rusty Wise,

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2006, 02:16:19 PM »
There is no reason to torch the hive body nor is there reason to burn the frames.  Just cut out the masses of webs and reuse them.  There's nothing wrong with the equipment.
Michael Bush
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Offline Cindi

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2006, 04:37:52 PM »
Rusty, I don't understand.  Do you think that the bees absconded then the wax moths took over, or did the bees not clean house properly and left because there was too much moth and damage.  This is an interesting thing, sure did sound awful yucky though.  Ick.  Great day. Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline rusty

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2006, 05:30:41 PM »
There is no reason to torch the hive body nor is there reason to burn the frames.  Just cut out the masses of webs and reuse them.  There's nothing wrong with the equipment.


Yes, Michael,  you are right I am sure, but they were old frames on a hive I had bought in this year. I like my frames to be scupulously clean. and I change  a couple of frames of my foundation in every hive, every couple of years, so it is always being renewed and kept clean. I was disgusted when I found the moth larva, so I got rid of them fast, and did not want to use the same frames again. Bit extreme maybe, but I have an excuse, I'm a nurse so I am bit neurotic I guess!!

Cindy,

Neither do I understand, maybe the bees absconded because the frames were very old, I think they either took all the honey with them or robbers got what was left behind. Then I think the wax moth moved in. Whatever, I don't ever want to find the vile things in a hive again, ughhhh
Rusty Wise,

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2006, 11:10:35 PM »
I have frames that are at least 34 years old.  They were used when I got them 34 years ago.  :)  I had brood combs that were 27 years old when I switched to small cell.  I never saw bees abscond because of the age or condition of frames or combs.  They just tear down combs they don't like.  They just clean and polish frames that are dirty.  When the bees get done coating the inside of the hive with propolis it almost sterile.

Michael Bush
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Offline Cindi

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2006, 08:04:17 AM »
I have frames that are at least 34 years old.  They were used when I got them 34 years ago.  :)  I had brood combs that were 27 years old when I switched to small cell.  I never saw bees abscond because of the age or condition of frames or combs.  They just tear down combs they don't like.  They just clean and polish frames that are dirty.  When the bees get done coating the inside of the hive with propolis it almost sterile.
Michael, I am more than amazed, I would never in my wildest dreams have thought that frames would last that long.  But when thinking on it, I would presume, like you said about the hive being coated with propolis also and sterile, that the frames would probably be as durable as the violins humans coated with propolis resin.  Hard and tough as one could ever imagine.

I was trying to remove some propolis from the top of a box, it was in my garage so was quite cold.  This resin was so tough I could not believe it.  After I finally did remove most of it, the residue left behind was very shiny and in no way on the good green earth could I have removed it too as it was so tough.  Funny.

So, how did the moths take such a strong hold on Linda's colony, and it sounds like in a very fast way.   
Where did the bees go?  Why?  Gotta wonder these things. 
Great day. Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Jorn Johanesson

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2006, 09:03:34 AM »
Bees can just abscond if they for some reason find their home not worth living in. It is mostly seen when there is a heavy varroa infection. If the family is week and the hive to big for the population to clean and protect, the wax moth can very quickly take over, and home not in order, out looking for a better place. ABSCONDING IS A NATURAL BEHAVIOUR that I think we forgot about.

About clean and young frames I think there is a difference in how we look at it in US and Europe. I have always taken care of that my frames was totally renewed every second year. The reason for this was to get rid of diseases bound to the brood frames. Because of this I have NEVER had clinic AFB in any of my hives. My hives was examined nearly every year because I moved those around. Bees  in Denmark must be examined when moved out or into a 3 km zoone (radius). This restriction is set by Law about beekeeping. And because of this AFB, EFB is not a threath to Danish beekeeping.

Offline Cindi

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2006, 10:02:08 AM »
Jorn, now that was interesting about how well the beekeeping industry is watched for disease.

About replacing your frames every second year.  That could become very expensive I would imagine.  We have a company that lives in a neighbouring town that goes by the name of Iotron.  This company is in the business of radiating bee supplies.  This kills all form of any disease, they even radiate pollen.  It is used by many of the beekeepers in our area that can afford to have this done.  I only know of some very large beekeepers that use it, but I hear that it is a very dependable method of keeping their equipment sterile.  I think it costs about $400 for a treatment, but it can radiate an enormous amount of equipment.

An acquaintance of mine who has about 100 hives he uses for pollination told me that when he has a hive with any disease, he puts this hives equipment into a special freezer he only uses for disease issues.  Once he has built up enough equipment that would warrant the expenditure of so much money, he then has the equipment treated through radiation.  At our bee club meeting it was discussed that the small person with only a few equipments could perhaps ask when a large beekeeper was having their equipment treated and they probably (for a small fee) would allow the small beekeeper to have his done at the same time as the big beekeeper.  It is an interesting way of sterilization for sure.  It must work or the company would not be in business.  Is there anything like that in your country Jorn?  Great day. Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2006, 12:29:07 PM »
>I have always taken care of that my frames was totally renewed every second year.

Frames?  Or combs?
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
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Jorn Johanesson

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2006, 12:51:48 PM »
>I have always taken care of that my frames was totally renewed every second year.

Frames?  Or combs?


combs of course :-) when we recykle we deliver all the frames including combs to the wax melting buissness. They then melt the combs, clean and wash the frames and return foundation to a price - value for the wax. We are as a result taking care of every bit of wax we cross over.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2006, 04:16:35 PM »
There's nothing like that kind of service here.
Michael Bush
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Jorn Johanesson

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2006, 06:01:17 PM »
There's nothing like that kind of service here.

So time to start a buissness :) where are the wax reseller getting the wax? it must come from somewhere.

if you can handle the cleaning and washing (kaustic soda (natrium hydroxid)) and high pressure water of the frames and then deliver the wax to the wax industry then you are on the road to recive  cheaper new foundation. But foundation is part of the cost in  beekeeping such as nucks and queens.

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2006/february/beeswaxmould.htm

and a honey extractor:

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2005/september/honeyextractor.htm

Offline Cindi

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2006, 10:31:35 PM »
Jorn, holy crow!!  Some really good sites there that I looked at.  I am sure many people would love to get into some kind of construction of the foundation and extractor.  not me though, too lazy.  Great day. Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline Greg Peck

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2007, 03:24:59 PM »
There is no reason to torch the hive body nor is there reason to burn the frames.  Just cut out the masses of webs and reuse them.  There's nothing wrong with the equipment.


MB, Do you mean that if the moths have a "nest"/mess in the middle of a frame just cut out the area around the mess and remove it. Then put the frame with the remaining comb into a hive and the bees will fill the hole that was cut out. Sounds logical I just want to make sure that is what you ment. Or do you mean remove all the comb from the frame and just reuse the frame? And would you do this with honey super frames or just brood nest frames?

Thanks
Greg
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2007, 10:52:27 AM »
>MB, Do you mean that if the moths have a "nest"/mess in the middle of a frame just cut out the area around the mess and remove it. Then put the frame with the remaining comb into a hive and the bees will fill the hole that was cut out.

If it's only partially filled the frame, sure.  Usually if it's really bad the entire hive is full of webs and cocoons, in which case I'd just cut them all out, scrape off the coocons, and reuse it.
Michael Bush
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Offline Greg Peck

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2007, 06:34:16 PM »
Thanks
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Offline reinbeau

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2007, 09:36:17 AM »
We had these same worms on the white boards we took out of the hives yesterday( to open them up for ventilation).  These hives are strong, I see no signs of wax moths in them, yet the larvae were all over the boards.  Do the moths lay in anticipation of perhaps getting a foothold?   I wouldn't think I should spray an active hive with Certan, especially since I see no evidence of moths in the combs.  Thoughts?

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Offline reinbeau

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2007, 07:35:52 PM »
Here's a picture of the ugly things.....are they wax moth larvae?  Should we be worried?  These hives are strong, I thought they could only get a foothold in weak or empty hives?


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Offline Mici

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2007, 07:59:05 PM »
cleaning behaviour is also animportant factor. a hive with a strong one, will rarelly see them, as for the "lazy" ones..

Offline reinbeau

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2007, 10:31:16 PM »
Thanx, Mici, but....that is a wax worm larvae?  Do we have anything to worry about?  It was only on the board, there are no webs whatsoever in the hive....... :?

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Offline Mici

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2007, 06:26:01 AM »
when i think about it..what else can it be?
worry about it,ha, tricky one. i have a "messy" hive, and there are always a few worms on the bottom when i open them, but so far, bees seem to keep an good eye for comb. i think that as long as you keep your bees in a "tight" box-so they can tak care of all the boxes, it should be just fine. how NOT to do it, was posted a few days ago, from our friend from downunder.

Offline reinbeau

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2007, 07:38:27 AM »
I was actually assured on another forum (cough, cough) that the girls were doing their job, the larvae had been evicted from the hive.  I gave them a nice spot in the hot sun, I don't think they're going to be a problem now  :evil:

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Offline Cindi

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2007, 10:47:54 AM »
Ann nice picture, but man is that thing ugly.  What is the hook thing sticking out of the front of the worm?  I am pretty sure they are the moth worm larvae.  Eeeks.

I found a worm kind of that looked like that in my garden soil, only it was very smooth looking.  I took a picture of it (but alas, you know my problem here about timeout, no pictures yet).  My husband wiped out my computer, but I am still having the problem with posting and pictures.  Maybe one day get it figured out.  Have a wonderful day, great life.  Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline reinbeau

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2007, 08:51:43 PM »
I think that's just a piece of debris under the little creep  :-D

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Offline Bee1

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2007, 05:55:10 PM »
Hello All -- I'd like to reopen this thread.  I've found some worms on the tray of the bottom board of my hive that this look very much like this.  Yuck! 

Last time I was in the hive itself I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, . just some smaller worms on the bottom board tray.   I haven't had time to go in the hive but have been monitoring the bottom board tray.  The worms seem to start off encased in a sticky thready web like cocoon and are much smaller…  and thinner…  but seem to grow to look like this. 

Was it a consensus? Are these wax moth larvae? 

Can the bugs get up into the hive through the varrao mite screen & slatted rack?

Will the bees go to the effort of coming to the back of the hive and onto the bottom board to kill them? 

Reinbeau -- I believe this was your picture.  How did this work out for you?

Thanks all,
Bee1

Here's a picture of the ugly things.....are they wax moth larvae?  Should we be worried?  These hives are strong, I thought they could only get a foothold in weak or empty hives?


Bee1 with all Stings of the Universe.

Offline reinbeau

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2007, 09:50:01 PM »
Yep, wax moth larvae.

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Offline Bee1

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2007, 10:38:21 PM »
to be honest I don't know whether I have a bug problem or not.  I did see those larve on the bottom board but  I took off the solid bottom board and haven't seen anything out of the ordinary inside the hive...

Bee1

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Offline sadvic

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2007, 12:11:50 PM »
The coloney can die out so fast, not nescessary absconded, and the moths will move in and eat everything that isn't robbed by other coloneys.In a matter of just a few weeks. Not saying what might have killed the bees in the first place. Bees don't need to be in a lot of shade. Wax moths like shady areas.

Offline Erik T

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Re: WORMS
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2007, 04:30:50 PM »
Since you are in Georgia, do you have a SHB infestation?  I known I do and they also produce worms.  Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do for those other than have strong colonies and trap the beetles.