late summer splits

[Zoot]

When considering doing a split from a very strong colony at this time of the year (in this case I would install a purchased queen in the split) would the absence of drawn comb (I don't have any to spare) be a potential problem? Both of my hives started with 3 lb packages on foundation (May 1st). The strong hive that I would like to split has four 8 frame mediums completely full of brood, honey and pollen. My weaker hive consists of 2 full mediums. While vigorous foraging is still taking place it doesn't appear to be enough to stimulate comb drawing in either hive.

[Scadsobees]

Not if you intend to feed.  If you are like most, there isn't much of an August honeyflow, and this is when you will need to be drawing wax and building up.  They can probably do it if you keep them going.  

Just make sure they don't get robbed if feeding.

-rick

[Michael Bush]

I try to give splits enough capped honey that I don't have to feed.  In a dearth you may have to feed all the hives to keep the strong ones out of the weak ones.  You can always come back later and steal full frames of capped syrup to bulk up the weak ones.

[Zoot]

Rick,

August/Sept. can really produce here if we get enough rain. Even now when there is traditionally somewhat of a dearth a lot of stuff is in bloom and a lot of people have put their supers back on. My bees in both hives seem to have drawn the line on drawing more comb though even though they are foraging. It's a bit perplexing


MB,

Thanks for confirming my thoughts on using capped honey. I probably have enough to do what I need to do.

Just curious here - you mentioned somewhere (I think on your site) that you didn't use an extractor for a long time. How did you amass drawn comb when you first started? CAn you steal relatively empty but fully drawn frames from the brood box once the brood from earlier in the season has hatched out and replace with foundation? Also, any thoughts on stimulating my bees to move up into their 1st honey super (#5)? This is the hive with 4 full mediums. I finally made some of B. D. Bray's slatted racks (to use below and above) and so far the bees in that very full, active hive show no interest in going up. Otherwise they (racks) seem to be helping with ventilation - been up around 100 a lot recently.

[Finsky]

When considering doing a split from a very strong colony -----. The strong hive that I would like to split has four 8 frame mediums completely full of brood, honey and pollen.

Four medium = three Langstroth is not strong hive ant not at least very strong.  It is good hive which will winter with 2 mediums.  In pring that is good start and yu will see perhaps very good hive next summer.


If you split the hive it will be quite weak next spring and it is slow to develope.

If hive is completly full and bees get still honey the brood area will become smaller. You should arrange more  room for laying.  Normal way is to extract honey.

Just now I am in a hurry to clean honey from hives so my queens have room to lay wintering bees. After a month our hives have brood almost at all.

[Zoot]

Finsky,

Your evaluation pretty much agrees with the practices I was familiar with dating back to when I first kept bees back in 1979, 1980. But several of the local gentlemen here, both very experienced beekeepers have urged me to split my better hive.

And yes, that hive is very full of bees and honey. I have never extracted honey from frames that still have brood - can it or should it be done to make more room? In the 2 uppermost boxes the comb is so full (the arch of honey surrounding the brood) that the caps of the frames are sticking to the neighboring frames. They tear off when I pull a frame out for inspection.