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Author Topic: As we Sit yet again on the Brink of War  (Read 2997 times)
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« on: July 13, 2006, 10:29:26 PM »

I'm sitting at my computer screen, doing as all of you are, watching the news - wondering which country will blow up which other country in the Middle-East first. A huge part of me (the part that can forget that real innocent people live there) says "Let them blow the crap out of each other and get it over with already, thousands of years the same crap hitting the same fan - Middle East (if you are reading) come to New Jersey and see how every imaginable religion, sect., and culture can function without the need to annihilate each other - it can work, I just don't think YOU have it in you to agree to disagree and merge into a separate but equal society.

Meanwhile the more humane side of me wishes (but deep down knows) that there is no solution to this problem - it is Biblical in scale, if not in Biblical in nature. I think MOST of this is not prophecy, but rather SELF-FULFILLED PROPHOSY. In other-words, these cultures have decided that THEY are what the END TIMES are talking about and with enough effort on their part, I'm afraid they will get their way. Or to metaphor it a bit "Whether you think you CAN or think you CAN'T, you are RIGHT!"

I reflect on the Mayan Calendar and wonder what the end date of December 21, 2012 means - did they just RUN OUT OF ROCK when chiseling out a calendar or does it prophesies the next REBIRTH of humanity, the final cleansing of this wonderful planet which we have been killing since we stepped foot on it. Only creatures capable of unimaginable wonder can be so adversely destructive. I believe in a God and wonder how he could make something as FLAWED as us and then IN FAITH we read "Created in His image." I'm so confused about that.

I know, Beemaster is rambling on again and we know that usually leads to UFOs - lol. But this one will stay Interplanetary, I promise to try, after all this isn't the Dark-side Forum Smiley

It hurts to know that our time on this planet is always just a "boom or two" away. We can't pollute it to death fast enough, so we choose to Nuke it instead. I can only think of it as having a choice of Convection Oven or Microwaving the planet - and I don't think either term is far from reality.

Isn't the UN good for anything? I know we have trouble staying out of other people's business and I think "this" would be a GREAT place to stay out of, but WE ARE ALL READY THERE or haven't you seen the news for the LAST THREE YEARS! We have only accomplished ONE THING in the Bush Administration - we have a STRONG HOLD PRESENCE in the MIDDLE EAST, nicely tucked away right there next to Iran. You cannot possibly make me believe that the adjenda was not to setup a force, battle standing in the heat of things.

That makes me wonder too how much our leadership has to do with self-fulfilling prophosy too. Scary to think about stuff and a huge disappointment from the people who brought you Ronald Reagan.

Our troops are at escalated risk yet again, if such a term is possible to use. Cause, what the heck, while we are in the neighborhood, we might as well take on the WHOLE Middle East, and SINCE WE ARE ALREADY THERE (again in the neighborhood) How about doing something POSITIVE for a change in AFRICA - what... no oil??? Well, I guess will NEVER go there - sorry Dafur.

I'm sure that tomorrow I'll return to work at the Navy Base and we'll be under heightened alert again. Which means that RANDOM CAR CHECKS are greatly increased (they basically do it like this) the car that is currently pulled over will be allowed to merge into in-bound base traffic and the SECOND CAR in line will be pulled over. This is done quite randomly, I don't see targeting EVEN THOUGH I hold the RECORD at my workplace with a whopping 16 times fully searched with drug and bomb dogs. Jerry, I'm sure that curls your toes like a long winded vasectomy story, but it comes with the job and I do not feel my privacy is violated - I'm very honest about that.

Heightened Security doesn't mean much, unless it is a BEHIND THE SCENES thing that is NOT obvious to us employees. I assume it means a few more military police cars on the roads and an extra chair manning the HUNDREDS of 360 degree cameras around the base. Not too many people have seen what security sees, I'm sure we would all be shocked. But it is understandable (and commonly found knowledge) what we do and how important our mission is - I'm guaranteeing you this, when crap hits the fan, feathers will fly and a mighty Army will do all it can to prevent the end of mankind. I really think that is our solemn duty to this planet and which ever God we believe in.

There goes an AMERICAN speaking again (you don't have to tell me) thinking like we do is pampas and FORCING FREEDOM on people seems to be the only thing we cram down the throats of other people on our planet. Most people (Dems and Reps, Libs and Cons alike) think we are just finishing GHWB's unfinished business of 1991. I totally believe that Georgie is totally believing he is doing GOD's work, just as Pat Robertson and other fanatics are. Look at this administration and you see the same old faces behind the leadership that you saw 15 years ago - with few exceptions.

I mentioned this, I voted for a President MY FIRST TIME when I was 21 (I was too you the previous election) and on that ballot was Ronnie and GHWB and SINCE THEN there has ALWAYS BEEN either a CLINTON or a BUSH on the Ballot - I'm not joking, do the numbers. Now we will se Billary, opppps Hillary on the ballot in 2008, so we wont see a possible NEW NAME other than Clinton AND Bush until 2012 THE YEAR OF THE MYAN CALANDAR (just a thought!!!)

I wish us (this planet) the best in the days and years ahead. I don't have much long-term faith in this species we call Human. Maybe we'll get lucky and some OTHER PLANET will SEED us after the radiation levels drop. Much like Mars did it over nearly 600,000 years ago before they were forced out of their underground cities as the last drop of sub-surface atmosphere faded away. Then, once seeding the Earth, they left for deep space and now are just 6 years away from communicating with what is left of MANKIND.

Told you I could get through that without UFOs  rolleyes
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2006, 11:14:52 PM »

It might all look bad but this is not the first time a generation of people thought that they were seeing the end day's. Just a positive thought for you.
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2006, 11:31:46 PM »

John,
 Believe it or not I was in the air force. Security Police. I know about increasing security at military bases.

Now here is one that makes it a little easier. Did you know or realize or consider that there will be no one on the other end to regret the total distruction of man kind. When we are gone completely, just what is it that is lost?

I think the real problem when pondering this is who will be left. Remember M.A.D. Mutually Assured Destruction. Why? Just because one side doesn't want the other side to be the winner?
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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2006, 08:43:16 AM »

I don't doubt that we could and probably would have a humanless planet, if not a dead planet all together. I know there are some very adaptive creatures, some viruses actually live in lava heated water and incredible temperatures, so something might climb out of the muck but I doubt it will be human. That's why reseeding the planet came up, someone may have to do it for us.

Back later for me, just checking the forum Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2006, 02:45:59 PM »

The way I see it, every generation has it's "dooms day" senarios.  Does anyone here think that it could be part of human nature to think that the world is comming to an end?  Global Warming for instance.  It's all happened before.  The earth found a way to remain a viable plantet...oops...personifying again.  Anyways, heat, melted ice causeing a dillution of the ocean and the thermal conveyor.  This broke down the conveyer and caused a global cooling; the "Ice age".  Then, when the oceans were back to the proper levels, he conveyer started up and the earth warmed.  I don't mean to get religious but, what if Noah's flood was the result of global warming melting the ice of the northerly and southerly extremes of the planet?  I don't see the world comming to an end in the next few years but, the climate (political and natural) will be changed.
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006, 04:50:48 PM »

Hmm. If the end of the world is near, then we'd better get working on building a new one.  It sounds complicated.

Joking aside.  The definition of world is as follows, compliments of dictionary.com:

The earth.
The universe.
The earth with its inhabitants.
The inhabitants of the earth; the human race.
Humankind considered as social beings; human society: turned her back on the world.
People as a whole; the public: The event amazed the world.
often World A specified part of the earth: the Western World.
A part of the earth and its inhabitants as known at a given period in history: the ancient world.
A realm or domain: the animal world; the world of imagination.
A sphere of human activity or interest: the world of sports.
A class or group of people with common characteristics or pursuits: the scientific world.
A particular way of life: the world of the homeless.
All that relates to or affects the life of a person: He saw his world collapse about him.
Secular life and its concerns: a man of the world.
Human existence; life: brought a child into the world.
A state of existence: the next world.
A large amount; much. Often used in the plural: did her a world of good; candidates that are worlds apart on foreign policy.
A celestial body such as a planet: the possibility of life on other worlds.

The end of the world; the end of which world?  Then end of the material world? The end of human existence? The end of Earth? The universe?  Maybe we will lose our material perspective of existence.  Maybe we will continue in a completely mental realm.  How would we communicate with one another?  Would we?  If the material world is gone, we will have to resolve our problems in an entirely different manner.   Hmm.  If you assume each person has a soul ,and that the soul can continue w/out the body, this would be an opportunity to discover reality.    Imagine life without the 5 senses.  All that's left is the sixth sense. The inner eye, the soul, the individual, etc.  

I ponder the Mayan prophecy too. It is highly unfair, the day before my birthday.  How rude.  But is there significance to it, the winter solistce. Hm.  Will the world's problems be resolved by then or not?  Prob. not.

And will the UFO's survive the end of the world?
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2006, 07:53:10 AM »

If you don't think mankind can obliverate themselves look what an earlier version did to Mars.  

But in all seriousness, I've been to the otherside (more than once) and it's a lot nicer than this place.  There we are not assailed with matters material or of the flesh can can converse via telepathy so hate, bigotry, greed, and selfishness doesn't exist.  Once there we find out that Plant Earth is a class room and our grade determines how we get to spend the rest of eternity.

The answer is the golden rule: Do onto others as you would have them do unto you.  If you want a good grade learn to love one another and help one another.

Meantime, my second son is currently serving in the USMC in Iraq.  In Fallujah which is one of the hot spots so I worry about his safety.  He's making the military his career so this will probably not be the only time he has to face such hardship.
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2006, 12:03:10 AM »

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. "
-John Stuart Mill -

almost every member of my family has been in the military.  many still are.  i have lived with war all of my life.  on 9/11, i had the same reaction that all of us had, but i had the additional knowledge that part of my family was going to disappear for a time.  i would not hear from them, but i would know what they were doing.  unlike most others, this was not a new feeling for me.  

we have been in this war for over 30 years.  most folks didn't realize it.  i was almost happy to know that it would now come home to everyone.  i had spent most of my time training for the desert warfare that some of us knew would come.  it came for my husband and me in 1990.  some of my friends were in the Somalia mess.  some did time in the Balkans.  it's all the same mess.

there are not many wars that would not have been better fought, if fought sooner.  history tell us that.  Israel know it.  we know it now, i hope.  i don't want my grandchildren still at this in 20 years because we lack the will to shed blood.

the names of the dead are forgotten in a generation or two.  the results of the action, last much longer....right or wrong.

hey look....i can ramble too!   Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2006, 09:50:14 AM »

Amen....
I was a proud member of our VOLUNTEER military and am glad we are doing the right thing first for a change. From a fellow Desert Storm Veteran, thanks...
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2006, 10:26:10 AM »

Quote from: Hi-Tech
Amen....
..... am glad we are doing the right thing first for a change.


Just remember there is a side that would say it is the wrong thing. Does any one ever think about that? Is something right just because someone says it is?
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2006, 11:15:14 AM »

that kind of thinking is called relativism.  the problem with relativism is that people who think that way, are usually pretty much convinced that they, or their country, are wrong.  never the other guy.

yes, there are two sides to every story.  this is another one of those things were you have to choose a side  Cheesy

Quote

Amen....
I was a proud member of our VOLUNTEER military and am glad we are doing the right thing first for a change. From a fellow Desert Storm Veteran, thanks...


we always try to do the right thing.  guess that's all anyone can ask! that, and that the chain of command upward is also trying to do the right thing.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2006, 04:22:21 PM »

I am one of those people who was raised to always choose a side. I have chosen the right side on occasion and the wrong side on occasion but I have always chosen a side. I do not ride the middle. I may not agree on all things with all people but if they have chosen a side, at least I can respect a person for that. If they ride the middle and wait to see how it turns out before choosing a side, they do not deserve any respect. I look at things, judge them by my knowledge, experience, morals and belief system and make a choice that I believe is right. Thats what everyone should do. I cannot make a decision based on someone Else's knowledge, experience, morals and belief system. I can only use my own.

I also feel that as long as I am enjoying the freedom and benefits that this country purchased with the blood of it's patriots, I will stand by the decisions that country makes, right or wrong. Most people would stand by their employer, right or wrong, as long as the paycheck kept coming, why should your loyalty to your counrty be any different? I have been to other countries and seen how other cultures live. I enjoy free enterprise, democracy, the ability to work and get paid for my efforts, the ability to go to a church and worship my God, the freedom to vote for my leadership, the ability to purchase and own land, the freedom to raise my children the way I want and marry a woman of my choice who I love deeply. Those freedoms and abilities are not available many places outside this country. As long as my country provides me those things, I will follow her leaders decisions, right or wrong.

If my wife or my children take a wrong path, I do not criticize, condemn or complain. I stand up for them against others, right or wrong. They are my family and mean more to me than anyone else. This is my country and it means more to me than any other country.

I have a rule at my house. If you live under my roof, you go by my rules. Period! So....If you live in this country.... Well, you get the idea..

Pick a side and move there......
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2006, 02:47:51 AM »

My son, who is 4th generation military (grandfather WWI, father WWII, Me Vietnam, Mike Iraq) is a proud marine.  A marine after three generations of Army.  I have had an ancestor in every major war the USA as been involved in including the 1st one in 1776.

Our family motto is: A person who lets others walk on him has nothing to show for it but footprints.  If you can't stand up for your rights (or what is right) you deserve none.  

Relativism is a very narrow "It's not my fault, just leave me alone" mentality. If it weren't for those who were willing to stand up and be counted, those who don't want to get involved would be slaves.
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2006, 10:56:00 AM »

Quote
My son, who is 4th generation military (grandfather WWI, father WWII, Me Vietnam, Mike Iraq) is a proud marine. A marine after three generations of Army. I have had an ancestor in every major war the USA as been involved in including the 1st one in 1776.


how did army feel when one when over to the "other side"!   Cheesy

my kin have only been here for 3 generations. actually, my boys are the 4th..... my great grandmother used to sit under her apple tree peeling apples for her wonderful pies, and drill into us kids how very lucky we were to have ended up in America.  i am so glad to have had the benefit of her stories of the hardships she endured before coming here.  i feel sad for Americans whos' families have been here so long they don't remember anymore, and can not teach their children,  the good fortune they enjoy just by being able to say "i am an American".

let me add, since we are an international forum  Smiley , i have found the same spirit in some other places.  Australia, GB, Japan, old Hong Kong......maybe all folks around  the world will someday experience the same good fortune!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2006, 04:26:36 AM »

A person can find serenity in any country in the world, if they look for it.  Serenity comes from a sense of satisfaction.  Being satisfied with who and what you are, where you are, and doing what you can to the best of your ability.  Serenity is true peace of mind.  
I'm very close to acheiving Serenity.
Having been to the 4 corners of the world (thanks to Uncle Sam) I've had an oppurtunity to compare America with a lot of different countries.  
I've discovered several things: 1. You have to live amoungst a people in order to understand them, 2. Might is not always right, 3. Understanding breeds tolerence, 4. Ugly Americans' are those who drag America with them wherever they go.  5.  Even those who bad mouth America would still like to live here, despire her faults because they would have more freedoms than they do now.

>>how did army feel when one when over to the "other side"!

Actually he's getting out of the Marines and Going into the Army once he gets back Stateside from Iraq--He findly found out Dad was right about a few things.
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 01:23:30 PM »

Quote
Actually he's getting out of the Marines and Going into the Army once he gets back Stateside from Iraq--He findly found out Dad was right about a few things.


having done some joint training with the "new army" i know they could use some disciplined leaders.  if he does not become discouraged with the difference in training standards, he should do well.  one thing is for sure.  he'll have the sharpest uniform in the unit!   Cool
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2006, 12:34:32 PM »

Historicaly speaking the planet is past due for a flushing out.  Another mass extinction is right around the corner.
  I for one don't worry about the future of my species. If man is here for the next century, or whatever isn't a big deal to me. And I have trouble understanding those who seem Hell bent on "saving the planet."
  With the exception of total global thermonuclear war, anything we might do will cause changes so slow and subtle as to go unnoticed or understood till we start to drop over.
  If you believe in God then His will be done. Accept that the universe will unfold as planned and go with the flow.
  If you don't believe then look at history. Man will react when he has killed off enough people. And man like cockroaches, has survived some pretty dismal times in the past.
  Perhaps it's that we see mankind as personal friends and family, and not from a broader view as a species.


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