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Author Topic: Need some advice on what to do about requeening  (Read 2752 times)
tom
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« on: July 11, 2006, 09:19:39 PM »

Hello

   Ok here we go again i found more queen cells this morning being made now i have no more drones in my other hives and all of the local feral bees are gone. Ok i have a new queen coming tomarrow and i want to put her in this colony now my A.I Root book says to destroy all queen cells and then put her in now it has been  about five days with no queen and the old queen scent should be gone should i leave the new queen in her cage for a few days before letting the bees eat the candy to free her and should i get rid of all the queen cells. All advice will be so greatful i really need to requeen this hive now here is the other thing they say a queen mates only once in her life  the hive that i want to requeen is mixed but my other two are carniolans when i got them they looked like three banded italians but now they are more carniolans  and the queen was laying when i got this nuc could she have went out and mated with one of my drones.

Tom
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pdmattox
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2006, 09:32:09 PM »

I would remove all queen cells, Install queen cage as normal or with a little spray in the hive with sugar water and vanilla extract. I don't think your queen mated more than once.
hope this helps.
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TwT
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2006, 09:42:48 PM »

Why not let them raise their own queen if you are having problems, it saves money buying queens and they still have time to build up after she is mated for the winter??? something tells me if you killed the other queen and after this time you still have cells being built they have another queen just starting to lay,,,, a supercedure will have the old queen and a new queen at the same time,, you could have missed a queen cell before all this,,, just my 2 cents..
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2006, 09:46:38 PM »

Ya I agree...

What we usually do is: shake the bees off all brood frames, down into the bottom of the brood nest, and eliminate all queen cells (it is easy to miss one with the bees on the frames, severely impacting acceptance).

Remove the cork from the candy side, and poke a sm hole in the candy (careful not to hit the queen) so the queen will be released in approx 24 hrs (a sm phillips screwdriver or 12v wire probe works fine for this).

A mild honey flow, or feeding syrup helps (make sure to reduce entrance to avoid robbing if it is during a dearth, robbing hurts queen acceptance).

You should expect a 90% plus acceptance with this method.

Good Luck
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tom
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2006, 09:54:18 PM »

Howdy

   Friday when i got my new queen i killed the old one that morning and out the new one in that evening. The bees went right to the new queen and was feeding her  but when i checked for her monday this is when i found all of these queen cells. I have another queen coming tomarrow and they were building a few more cells but when i looked monday for the new queen i searched every frame inch by inch and all of the cells where in the middle of two frames. so i got rid of them now the old queen scent should be gone and i am going to get rid of all the cells when my new queen comes but i want to know is could i leave her in the cage for a few days and then let the bees eat the candy to free her these are mean bees.

Tom
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2006, 10:10:12 PM »

yes ,yes  and yes, please let them release her, direct releasing works good but I always want my bees to do the releasing even if it cost me a few days, the queen could fly off in a direct release is why I let the bee's do it or they could kill her, if she die's in the cage I know there is a queen or a laying worker in the hive......
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2006, 10:42:44 PM »

if you only have a couple hives of bees and would like to have a little fun, you can get nearly 100% acceptance by releasing the queen under a small piece of screen with a few baby workers bees.  put the queen and baby bees (5-10 maybe) under a square or round piece of screen, only open on one side.  put that side directly against a small bit of open comb near the center of the brooding area.  The queen can start laying eggs in that area while being fed and tended by the baby bees.  After she has started laying eggs nicely, remove the screen trap and release her.  The hive now has her pheramone and you should get virtually 100% acceptance.

Sometimes it helps to return several times to look for old queens or virgins.  What you miss one day is often easily seen later.  Also its a good idea to make sure caged queens are being well fed, or their longevity/quality may be affected.

gl and have fun
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2006, 11:23:38 PM »

If requeening fails this time let the bees raise their own queen, but you'll have to barrow a frame from a different hive due to the age of the existing larva.  When requeening remember to treat queen cells the same way you would queens--a hive that has developed queen cells will not always accept a new queen even if the cells are removed, it seems to take the bees longer to realize the cells are missing than if a living queen is missing.  As I've said in other postings a hive will often kill a queen they are superceding prior to the hatching of the new queen--this relates that they will often kill a new queen if they are expecting one of their own to hatch.
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tom
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2006, 11:31:01 PM »

Howdy

  Ok please someone tell me about the spraying of sugar syrup and vanilla extract in the hive do you pull one frame out at a time and spray them and then spray the queen and release her. It sounds funny but matbe it may be worth a try the way i see it is that every bee in the hive will smell like vanilla and by the time they clean themselves the queen will smell the same and would be one of them. Now when i checked today there was no eggs or larvae in the cups they was building and the larvae is over three days old but i am going to destroy all cells tomarrow and then put my new queen in but they won't be able to eat the candy until i let them get to it by that time her scent should be in the hive.

Tom
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2006, 10:06:40 AM »

don't wait too long to release her.  my observation has been that bees more readily accept a new queen when she replaces a laying queen.  after a hive has been queen-less for some time, they are very resistant to new queens.

please do consider releasing the queen under a small wire cage exposing perhaps 4 inches of comb.  i have done it several times when i had spare time to go back, and it was fun and worked quite well.  once the queen is laying under your make-shift prison, she is virtually always accepted by the hive at large.

good luck

ps yes you're basically correct on the use of syrup/scents, especilly make sure you spray the queen lightly with syrup if you use this method, and take care to reduce entrances so the bees don't have too much entry room to protect.  syrup running out of the hive is an invitation for robbing, so be careful of volume used.
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Finsky
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2006, 10:28:22 AM »

You have maybe problem that your feral conony's swarming fever is still on and it wnt to sawrm

When you hive is eager to swarm you probably loose you hive next year too. So it is easier to nurse stock which is not willing to swarm.

Second problem is that often bees have hidden queen cell which beekeepr do not find. Emerged queen kill egg laying.

DO THIS:

Put hive  10 feet apart.
Put new nuc on old site, put inside foundations and one brood frame which have queen cell.

Bees fly to new hive and you need not shake. When hive is settled and it is time to give new queen, take brood frame away to old hive. Bees are desparate and they have nothing to defend. Give new queen and colony will happy.

When queen cells are emerged, kill the swarm queen and join hive to foundation hive. Let swarm queen destroy other queen cells.
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pdmattox
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2006, 09:58:06 PM »

hey tom, how about a update on how it is going.
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Finsky
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2006, 12:48:11 AM »

Be carefull tom. Your hive is probably willing to swarm and new queen does not match to their figures.

Kill the swarming fever first and give that new queen to foundation hive. Then let them get queen from their queen cell.

Otherwise you will go from trouble to trouble and hive will not forage honey. It just wait something.  

1) Question is not only requeening.
2) It is how stop swarming fever in 70 000 tiny heads.
3) How to keep up their motivation to forage.
4) How get hive's mind to normal  totaly.

When they feel that they have swarmed, and they have build foundations, they feel that their feelings (instincts) have fullfilled. Vanilla does not belong to what they wait for their life.

Bees want to go
they want to make new combs
they want to start new life.

Arrange it to them and they are happy.

.


.
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tom
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2006, 01:29:13 AM »

Hello

  Mr. Finsky they have alot of room to expand it's that they are so mean that i want to have a calm hive i have a child that likes to go and look at my other two hives they won't even bother her or me but this one i am trying to requeen will come at you and you don't have to be close to them. So i got my new queen again this morning and i destroyed all queen ceells i went thru the hive and each frame very careful. Well when i got back and went in them this evening before the storm came i only found two and i got rid of them. So i put the new queen in and they didd the same thing as before but i was smart this time i put a small screen over the candy so they can't eat thru it. I am going to let her stay in it for a few days but i am going to kep check to make sure no more queen cells are made. And i am going to try the vanilla and sugarsyrup spray to see if this works for a direct release. The queens i am getting now are in small plastic cages i am thinking of putting her in the old style cage so the bees can smell her better.

Tom
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Finsky
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2006, 05:04:03 AM »

There are problems in your hive which do not clear with vanilla. But do what feels better  Tongue  But vanilla will not spoil your effort either.
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tom
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2006, 09:04:34 AM »

Howdy All

  Mr. Finsky thank you for your advice i am going to let her stay in the cage for a few days to see. But if i see more queen cells then i am going to take her and requeen my other hive and let this one raise thier own.But drones are being ran out of my biggest hive and some are still living i also have seen some more drone brood so my new virgin from this mean colony might still can be mated. Have you ever tried or heard of the vanilla thing before and if they do not except her like i said i am going to requeen my other hive since thier queen is not doing as well but if i leave the new queen in this mean hive and see no more cells made then could this be a good sign that they may accept her since no more young brood is in the hive.

Tom
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Finsky
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2006, 09:06:50 AM »

Quote from: tom
to let her stay in the cage for a few days to see. Tom


It is not good for queen. It should have workers around as soon as possible which feed it.
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Finsky
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2006, 09:11:17 AM »

Quote from: tom
Have you ever tried or heard of the vanilla thing before


I have not heard or tried. But I have installed queens into hives 40 years.
Odor do not help very much in these cases.  If you try all kind of tricks beekeeping will cost quite much for you.  Old fashion not not but I am able to keep queens alive and somethimes not.
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tom
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2006, 10:37:42 AM »

Hello Finsky

  You have a good point about alot of things which helps me see things different. The queen is doing fine it seems the hive is calm and feeding her thru the cage and she is not running. The bees are feeding her and only a few is on the cage taking care of her i see where i may have messed up the first time i should have waited for a couple of days after killing the old queen before putting the new one in and i should have put the old one in a cage with some of her workers in case the new one was killed. i have learned alot so far and i am always open for more advice the guy's that taught me are no longer here and i have no one i can go too so i take all advice which has proven to be very good advice. It's just now i can not go into my beeyard without those bees from that hive trying to sting me i have never had such a hateful bunch in my life i have had mean hives but they never ran me away these are just plan mean and problemsome my other two are gentle and not mean it's just a couple from that hive and they don't stop.

Tom
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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2006, 10:52:33 AM »

Quote from: tom
Hello Finsky

  The queen is doing fine it seems the hive is calm and feeding her thru the cage and she is not running. The bees are feeding her and only a few is on the cage taking care of her
Tom



That is good sign if bees not pay special attention to queen. They do not ventilate or go against cage.

I this situation I should release the queen walk on the comb in the middle of bees. If bees just tap with their antennas they have accept it already.

Only question is , have you found all queen cells. Often bees succeed to hidden queen cell from beekeepers eyes.  You may release queen in upper box and put excluder between brood and queen boxes.
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tom
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2006, 04:54:37 PM »

Hello Mr. Finsky


   I am planning on checking again tomarrow to see if they have built any more cells and if they did i am going to let them raise thier own queen and i will requeen my other hive. But my last inspection yesterday before putting her in i searched every frame from top to bottom and side to side and found only three and cut them out i am thinking they have ran out of young brood to raise any more and have no other choice but to accept this one for thier survival but i am going to search tomarrow to make sure. But why is it now that there is always a bee chasing me out of the yard and it is coming from that hive is it because they have no queen or is it they are afraid i am going to kill the new one or cut out any cells they may have built. this hive is buckfast and italian cross and the buckfast come from weaver and the guy i got them from only requeens with them and they have mixed with his italians and have turned mean and nasty.

Tom
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