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Author Topic: Show me your papers  (Read 8891 times)
Jerrymac
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« on: June 30, 2006, 06:44:19 PM »

What do those words bring to mind smiley  U.S.S.R.  smiley  Nazi Germany  smiley  

Today I went down to renew my drivers license, a few months late. I was going to do it online but seems they wanted the number that is next to the picture on the license.... and well..... mine's been lost for sometime now. So finally I went today to do this deed. So now they need all this other garbage so I can renew the dang thing. OR.... a birth certificate. Since the health department was a lot closer than going all the way to the house where I might not find the long forgotten copy, I went to the health department. Much to my amazement there wasn't a line. Then as the government would have it some how my middle name has changed from Mac to Mae. I took it and will correct later..... no biggie right?Huh

So now I'm down to the final signatureing, thumbprinting, and picture taking steps and I am informed that the middle name will now be changed on my license. AND..... I might want to get it straightened out with in the next year.

Actually I was told I need to do it in the next year.

Why smiley  smiley  smiley

Because folks...... If you ain't heard....... FEDERAL ID. shocked  shocked  shocked
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2006, 07:29:36 PM »

As scary as that sounds, I also belive that is what is coming.  It seems we are becoming a police state more everyday.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2006, 08:01:36 PM »

This was told to me by the lady at the drivers license office in case I wasn't clear on that.
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2006, 11:55:36 PM »

Here is some good news on the subject;

N.H. Leads Revolt Against Federal ID Rules

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/25/ap/politics/mainD8H7B9OG8.shtml


More stuff;

http://www.rfidbuzz.com/news/2005/us_approves_machine_readable_federal_id_cards.html
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2006, 01:31:06 PM »

Call me crazy, but do we really need a SS Card, Passport AND a National ID?  

 rolleyes
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2006, 07:55:33 PM »

Quote from: amymcg
Call me crazy, but do we really need a SS Card, Passport AND a National ID?  

 rolleyes

No , however we need a way to remove you money and a way to make you feel unpatriotic if you refuse to participate in our totalitarian state.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2006, 10:11:57 PM »

My last two jobs required finger printing, multiple IDs, detailed back-ground checks, clean personal history, and I carry three IDs (one state and two federal) which have my face and fingerprints. I'm blood and urine tested annually and ALWAYS subject to random stops while driving on the Military Base where I have worked 18 years.

What I want to see is the SAME tracking measures used on Welfare Recipients who MISUSE the system - in particular, people who take their checks, cash them and spend most of the money on illegal drugs, rather than feeding and clothing their children as they should.

Not everyone is an abuser, but if you are handed a check from us, you should be subject to (at the very least) random drug testing and FOLLOW UP testing if positive results are found. The problem with that though it opens up a can of worms that could end up costing more that we already pay. Is it easier to have a drug abuser milk they system or force that person through a REHAB environment at whatever THAT cost would be? In the long term, I think you'd probably make a more productive society, maybe even a workforce that will fill the void that today is over-flowing with illegal immigrants.

Sure I could see MULTIPLE cans of worms opening up, I can not imagine the number of rehabs needed to clean up the Welfare system - it is like building that GREAT WALL of American which we keep hearing and talking about to our Southern Border, we know we need it, we just don't want to have to DEAL WITH IT NOW with all the pots on the stove that we have currently cooking.

The middle East is a pressure cooker ready to burst, we are stretched out thinly around the globe and EACH TIME a wannabee terrorist yells "Boo!" we spend 10 Billion Dollars: There is no doubt that we are defenseless against random attacks on our soil, we can kill and capture a hundred bad guys and there will be a thousand other nut cases to fill their shoes.

But back to the point... It is like gun control, when you take the guns away from the GOOD GUYS, only the BAD GUYS have guns. In my case, I'm photographed and drug tested, yet I have done nothing wrong. Meanwhile countless crackheads and "Check increasing baby making machines" are filling every corner of of country and none are subject to the same rules.

I hope at least everyone agrees that IF you are arrested and convicted on drug charges and you receive public assistance, all future benefits should be drug tested sensitive - we need to get this country FURTHER AWAY from 3rd world-ism, not waste technology which can change the future for our children.

There is a National Discussion on whether to DRUG TEST school students - all school students, not just athletes. I'm not sure what LIBERAL PARENTS would argue other than the old and tired issue of personal privacy.

Doesn't EVERY PARENT want their kids DRUG FREE - I do not believe that if EVERY ONE IS TESTED, you loose personal privacy. Maybe it is NEEDED to happen in schools - the only place where kids can be caught "in-time" before they make a disaster of their lives. It wouldn't be pretty, but MAYBE the knowledge that they would be drug-tested WOULD prevent experimentation in the first place? If it only prevented 10% of abusers from evolving into society WOULDN'T it be worth the effort? We place the lives of the children to the schools every day by busing them to and from, sport activities, etc. School may be the ONLY structured society many kids experience and JUST as in the "POLICE" we should give schools extraordinary powers. If you are NOT of Legal Age, what Rights do you have to begin with?

Typically parents are responsible for a child's actions except for crimes GREATER than misdemeanors, meaning maybe the same people who pay taxes and elect school boards should have the say on what happens in those districts - but isn't this a problem Nationally, and if it is SHOULDN'T Federal Laws govern such matters. I know one thing, Debt isn't an issue in our country, no one is better at being in debt than us - the depth of the hole we dig is the only issue any more - this war has bled us dry and maybe FURTHER debt should be put toward more promising issues, like SAVING OUR YOUTH "BEFORE" the World gets its hand on them.

I'm afraid we no longer live in a society where having personal privacy is possible. From your ATM cards, EZ-Passes, library cards, drivers licenses and on and on, don't kid yourself - unless you have a HUGE pile of cash (and try to get that without attracting attention - don't forget ALL TRANSACTIONS of $10K or more are HIGHLY visible) you CAN'T get a pack of gum without being seen buy dozens or hundreds of cameras a day.

We have LOST many personal liberties to the guise of security - and security is a smoky mask of illusion. Freedom at a cost is NOT true freedom, but we have NEVER had Freedom without GREAT cost of lives in this or any society. If a Federal ID Card somehow makes the world a little safer, nothing much has changed in my life - I've had a federal ID for 18 years now. Maybe you think I'm a sell-out to the MAN... I think I'm a productive member of society trying my very best to NOT leech on society and at the same time SERVE my country as a member of the Department of the Defense - US NAVY SUPPORT. Better "THAT" then someone who was either FAILED "BY" Society or someone who "FAILED" our Society - that door swings both ways. We MAKE as many monsters by failing to catch the sick and twisted which humanity has walking amongst it - maybe better internal security will fix some of the worse cases that fall thru the cracks BEFORE they are unrepairable. For now though, I've really lost faith in mankind's ability to self police its character but I have some optimism that people with good minds and kind hearts can keep us as safe as humanly possible in a world that wants to open up and swallow us whole. God Bless this world, we need it!
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2006, 12:42:24 AM »

Of all the things I could say to what you wrote I will stick to this one small observation for now. You choose to do that. I have quit jobs for less. I have never taken a drug test for a job.... and never will do it for anyone. Why not? I don't use drugs. I'm an honest individual.......heck I don't/won't even tell that little lie on the phone... you know the one.... "She/he is not here."  So why should I care about all of this?

OK I can't shut up. This ID is probably for a more secure America. If you want to believe that, go right ahead. But I have a hard time imagining why these terrorist want to come all the way across an ocean to blow things up. I have to wonder if there is something we might have done to them in the past?  

And I suppose taking away more of a person's freedom in fine as long as it is for the kids and old folks. I'm a father of six. I take care of my own kids, thank you very much, and don't get me started on the public schools, please. I had plenty of run-ins with them. And yes my kids have rights from the day they were conceived. But the schools sure didn't think so. You know they don't teach kids about being innocent until proven guilty?
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2006, 01:15:16 AM »

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."

"Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. "

"It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own."

                                  - Thomas Jefferson.

And now Ben Franklin
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2006, 07:36:37 AM »

Nice quotes pd

I think welfare recipients should be issued some sort of debit card that can only be used at appropriate stores.  I don't know how they would do that, but there are plenty of people out there abusing the system.

My husband is a police officer and works an extra security detail at the local Social Security office.  He said it's really unbelievable the things people pull to not have to work.

It would be nice to just go back to the way thing used to be, when if you were sick or disabled or your husband died unexpectedly,  your neighbors and community helped you out until you could get back on your feet.  This is not a job for the government.
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2006, 08:58:15 AM »

I thought maybe my next tattoo will be a bar code of my ssn.  Guess where i was thinking of putting it...
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2006, 02:25:36 PM »

Something just crossed my mind.... If you haven't seen that movie "Demolition Man" with Sylvester Stalone go get it rent it what ever. How would you like to live in the nice peaceful safe world that movie portrays?


  evil  I'm going for  a "save a tree"  movement. It will call for government regulation into the number of times one can go to the bathroom and the number of sheets of toilet paper one can use on each visit. Be prepared to be monitored. rolleyes
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2006, 04:12:04 PM »

Jerry:

Just curious... Do you REALLY think you are any FREE'R because you chose to NOT comply to things like random drug testing "If" you are drug-free??? I'm not sure about that. Are you even photographed and filmed less than the average guy on the street or if you are caught on tape, do you honestly believe that you some how slip through the cracks of bureaucracy better than those who CHOOSE to accept the rules of a work environment that calls for strict monitoring, fingerprinting, etc, etc..

Maybe I find a degree of comfort as a CONFORMIST rather than live my life avoiding the inevitable. I still say when EVERYONE complies NO ONE is losing a Right, just agreeing that WHAT WE CALL RIGHTS has changed - they call these rather bizarre ideas of our Amendments Smiley

My job requires a sober and non-stoned person at the helm or MEN WILL DIE - I'm not exaggerating one word, it is a very serious position I hold. With it come responsibility on my employers part to see that I'm not putting my coworkers in danger. The SAFETY of my coworkers is MORE IMPORTANT to me than retaining a blood or urine sample from my employer.

I'm surely not saying that ONLY people with something to hide choose a higher degree of freedom - nor do I suggest anyone choosing to NOT work for an employer has any better or worse job than I have. I'm not even talking about the productive people of society, only the leeches. 4th Generation chronic abusers who know of NO OTHER WAY but to live off of the tax-payer, they are the ones that I've been talking about.

No one forced me to work for the Feds, that was my choice and I have nothing but good memories and hopeful days ahead. Would I be as compliant to private industry, I'm not sure - but I do what I do because I believe it is important as well as paying the bills. I'm sure that I could do as well or better in private industry, trade skills tend to pay well in high-pressure boiler ops trade, but we serve the Carrier Fleet and because of our mission jets fly and return to carriers over 99.99996% of the time incident free - and the other .00004% are usually operator error, not equipment based.

There is passion and purpose to our work and to me it is safe to know my coworkers as well come to work clean and sober. We have worked under ZERO TOLLERANCE RULES for nearly a decade and I don't feel one bit intruded on - not one bit.

We finally have no-smoking in public places in New Jersey and businesses have never been so packed with customers. The bar and lounge crowd have adjusted well and I'm wondering if you believe smoke-free is a violation of your Rights too???

I'm for what ever is best for the greater good - and I wont confuse Rights and Privileges, I'll only say that if you believe your children are FREE from BIRTH, I don't think we live on the same planet. They are not free to practice religion in schools, yet a Gay-Agenda is offered at many schools. Gay and Lesbian Rights are good example of what is wrong with Rights. The same guy who yells EVERYONE should be FREE often yells, MEN can't marry Men, why not - they are FREE aren't they. Is MARRIAGE a Privilege?., is the Miranda Law really Right. Aren't these points tested and abused every day by both the good and the bad and by the indifferent?

I'll end my input by saying I commend anyone trying to "Live Free or Die... The only problem with that is DEATH always wins. I just don't get separationist thinking I guess. Peace.
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2006, 07:18:26 PM »

Yes John, I do understand and know full well the ways of the world at this time. I also know and understand how it got that way....... OK I really don't understand how it got that way because I do not understand why so many people allow their rights to be taken away. OH Yeah... Security, safety, and all those other key words.

"and I wont confuse Rights and Privileges" WOW what a thing to say. You see, most of our priviledges were once our rights. A good example I like is the automobile. Someone had a right to invent the darned thing. It was a right, there was no law against it. No rules or regulations about how it was to be built. Nothing to stop someone from mass producing it and selling it. There was no rules, regulations or laws as to who could/couldn't buy an automobile. As long as one had the money to do so. And the thing could be driven anywhere that the public was allowed to travel, and yes, by anyone that wanted to drive the thing. It was a right. What happened to that right? People became afraid of who it was driving the things.

As you pointed out, you wish to work at this job you have so there fore you do all the required things that they say to do. It doesn't matter that it is a government job or private, the big wigs of any company has the right to say what hoops the people need to jump threw to work there. But this should not be a government mandated thing. That goes along with governments (city, county, state, federal) mandating nonsmoking. I smoked the last cigarette January 7, 2006. Smoke free for six months now. But I will never say smoking should be outlawed. I spent two and ahalf weeks in the hospital from head injury in a motorcycle accident, but I will not demand there be laws for cyclist to wear helmets.

Back to smoking... why does any place need the government to tell it "No Smoking Allowed"? If left to their own devices I'm sure there would be places where smoking isn't allowed and were it is allowed. Why can't the people decide for themselves? Why do you feel your rights are violated because the place you want to eat allows smoking? Why do you think it is your right to take away the right of that bar owner to allow smoking.

So how did these rights start getting taken from us? A small example. When the government steps in and starts taking our money and spending it to feed people, medicate people, and all that other feel good stuff, because that is what people want. Because that is what makes people feel good about themselves. Then everybody thinks they can jump on the band wagon and point out that smoking causes diseases that our tax dollars go towards taking care of, so let's outlaw smoking. Now what if the sickly smokers were left to their own ability to take care of themselves?

OH but we can just let them die in the street.   shocked

This is where I think most people these days lose the understanding of it all. With great freedom comes great responsibility. If the only way you were going to get medical care was that you could afford it out of your own pocket, would you take better care of yourself? Would you make other arangements? I'm sure there would still be insurance companies. And yes the insurance companies could make demands of you or they won't cover you.... but you would be free to make that choice. BUT, we just can't allow the poor folk to die in the street can we? But I have to ask what gives you the right to take my money from me and give it to them other folks?

And in the real world the people think that since the various governments take money from them in all these many ways, then they can just turn around and do what ever it takes to get back every penny they can. And in some cases they get back more than they paid in. Yes there are people that abuse the welfare system. What if there wasn't a system to abuse? What if people that wanted to help the poor destitute and sickly just got together and had some private organization to take care of those people with. Why do we suck the life out of all people to take care of the few that are too (Well if I fill in these blanks I will really be insulting to some people) __________, ________. ________, to take care of themselves?

As I said, I know the ways of the world. The camel has gotten his nose under the tent flap and we are helpless to stop him from taking over the whole tent. Then some disgruntled folks may get fed up with it and start another revolution. Did I say "may get fed up"? They will get fed up as they have done many times in the past. Perhaps not in my life time, but they will. Meanwhile all I can do is sit and complain.

I don't ask nothing from any body, but sure is a lot of people that demand things of me or else. I don't impose my wishes on anyone, but sure are a lot of folks that think I should live according to their wishes. Perhaps I already do, and already did before a law was passed, and it really doesn't affect me in anyway, but it sure interfers with another's right to do it different.

I won't tell a man how to run his business, but a lot of people do. I won't tell a man how clean to keep his yard or what color to paint his house, but a lot of people do. And I won't take money out of your pocket and throw it away on other things, just because someone somewhere thinks it is for the betterment of the whole.
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2006, 08:02:27 AM »

The next time you feel like saying "there aught to be a law..." just remember that's how we got into this mess in the first place.  

Most Laws that are passed are created as a knee jerk reaction to some event or anticipated event--logic need not apply.
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2006, 10:55:30 AM »

Quote from: pdmattox

And now Ben Franklin
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."


Good ol' Mr. Franklin. Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2006, 12:39:27 AM »

"Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. "
-Thomas Jefferson-

old tj led the first muslim - american war.  he entered reluctantly, but was at last convinced that bribery and capitulation would not stop terrorism.

i never liked drug screening in the workplace until i got stuck working with an addict.  kind of changed my mind about the whole thing.....

national id cards:  bad idea.  choose the right argument.  it is a constitutional argument and comes under states rights.  there is no individual right to privacy in the constitution (although the SC thought they found one).  there is a right for states to regulate the behavior of their residents.  whenever federal law oversteps states rights, it is wrong.

of course, most folks that think a national id card is bad, think nothing of having their picture taken at a stop light.  they think the emancipation proclamation was a great thing, along with the civil war.  all of the actions and laws of the civil rights movement were for the greater good, and a national min. wage is super.  where would our old folks be without medicare and SSI.  how would we survive without FEMA...and where were they anyway??  oh  ya, and we need to have federal regulation so that women can have the "right to choose" and gays can marry.

you kind of have to pick a side and stick there.  the middle of the road only gets you run  over by a lorry.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2006, 05:41:09 AM »

And I always thought the middle of the road was the same as stradling the fence; a good way to get caluses on your backside.
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2006, 08:11:29 AM »

Quote from: beemaster


Maybe I find a degree of comfort as a CONFORMIST rather than live my life avoiding the inevitable.


It didn't have to be inevitable.  The majority collective allowed the invasions on the individual by not caring.  Remember the quote attributed to Rev. Niemoller.

Quote

We finally have no-smoking in public places in New Jersey and businesses have never been so packed with customers. The bar and lounge crowd have adjusted well and I'm wondering if you believe smoke-free is a violation of your Rights too???  


Not exactly.  Several business organizations in both New York and New jersey report a significant decrease in business at bars and clubs.  The quote: ""People don't go to bars to drink.  It's cheaper to drink at home. They go to bars and taverns to socialize. When the social environment becomes less hospitable, they find other ways to do it."

http://www.theeveningbulletin.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16934866&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=6

Quote
Is MARRIAGE a Privilege?

Ther are innumerable privileges associated with marriage, from tax relief to inheritance, that aren't available to unmarried couples.  A straight couple always has the option of getting married to enjoy these privileges.  A gay couple is prohibited this option.

Quote
I'll end my input by saying I commend anyone trying to "Live Free or Die... The only problem with that is DEATH always wins.


"Live free or not -- die anyway"?   Smiley

-- Kris
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2006, 11:45:55 AM »

in the 80's i served a four year hitch in the U.S. army,  our mission was to bring an end to the threat of comunism.  we were told that the ppl over there were spied on by their own govewrnment,  not free to move about the country,  subject to invasion of privacy, and the symbol of that "government oppression" was the berlin wall. today our government wants to build a fence across texas, be able to browse our phone and internet activity with impunity.  certain classes of people are required to register their whereabouts at all times( i know a man who was convicted of a sex crime, he must notify the police if he's going to be away from home more than two days.)  certain people are forbidden to have a gun. it realy concerns me the direction we seem to be going.  i think a major revision of the law is needed but i don't see how we can accomplish it.  historicaly 2 to 5 hundred years is the life expectancy of democracy if i think on it too much i get pretty nervous.
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vegetarian???  isnt green stuff for growing meat?
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