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Online kathyp

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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2006, 05:00:53 PM »
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today our government wants to build a fence across texas, be able to browse our phone and internet activity with impunity. certain classes of people are required to register their whereabouts at all times( i know a man who was convicted of a sex crime, he must notify the police if he's going to be away from home more than two days.) certain people are forbidden to have a gun. it realy concerns me the direction we seem to be going. i think a major revision of the law is needed but i don't see how we can accomplish it. historicaly 2 to 5 hundred years is the life expectancy of democracy if i think on it too much i get pretty nervous.


we could go back to the days were we shoot those who try to commit crimes with guns, hang those who are rapists and pedophiles, and keep the electric chair warmed up for traitors.  perhaps if we spent less time protecting the criminals, we could spend less time worrying about our freedom....or our lives?
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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Offline beemaster

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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2006, 05:09:35 PM »
I do have one solution to over crowded prisons... If your sentence EXCEEDS your LIFE EXPENTENCY, you should get lethal injection and save the tax payers a lot of money.

Death Row should MEAN WHAT IT SAYS and be DEATH ROW - the clock should start clicking down like sand in an hour-glass and when it runs out, your time is up.

Now, let the Non-child-support paying fathers BACK ON THE STREET in WORK-RELEASE PROGRAMS and have it get sent directly to his child's care fund, don't keep him locked up - it won't help him pay his child support IF he is in jail and not behind a shovel, broom or hamburger somewhere.

Everyone else, open population, let the scum (with there code of prison ethics) kill off all the child molesters and wife beaters and who ever is left, let them server out there time and hopefully we could ACTULLY through in some REHABILITATION in our prisons JUST INCASE he/she actually learns their lesson. Just some thoughts.

P.S.  Since all that was off topic - may the rest of us enjoy being photographed 75 times daily and mind our P's and Qs. :)
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Offline Jerrymac

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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2006, 12:44:25 AM »
Still off topic........

I could be wrong but it seems "they" will infringe more upon everyone's rights/freedoms because of a precieved threat than they will infringe on a few individual's rights/freedoms from a real threat.

Just think if "they" did what was needed to be done to protect people from AIDS/HIV how many less infected there would be.

And how many have lost their lives to this one disease?
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Online kathyp

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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2006, 02:14:32 PM »
how do you protect people from the choices they make...except to take away those choices?
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Jerrymac

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« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2006, 04:11:46 PM »
Quote from: kathyp
how do you protect people from the choices they make...except to take away those choices?


You took a different view than what I was getting at I think. I was talking about taking any and every known case and putting them somewhere so they couldn't spread the disease by accident or on purpose. An Island or a walled in city.

That's correct, you'd be taking away their freedoms....... but you would be protecting others from them.
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Online kathyp

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« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2006, 05:34:05 PM »
i can get behind that  :)
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline randydrivesabus

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« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2006, 06:59:44 PM »
i am a school bus driver and i am subject to random drug and alcohol testing. i therefore do not use recreational drugs within 30 days of any time i might be driving a bus and i dont get drunk before i drive.
i think this testing is an infringement on my right of due process. but i continue driving the bus and following the rules because it pays pretty good for a rural job and doesnt take up much of my time. it also gives me access to group health insurance and a retirement plan. life is full of tradeoffs.

i also think that the government should stop legislating morals....gay rights and stem cell research are examples of this. the government should pay more attention to spending taxpayer dollars and lives wisely than trying to prevent gay marriage and stem cell research and fighting unwarranted wars.

Offline nepenthes

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« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2006, 12:48:20 AM »
That last statement is disgusting, I know pleanty of gay people, but the Morals this country was founded on are totaly being twisted and put in a closet. They should be forthright actions, (except for the war bush needs to go out and fight in the war and make his dad proud instead of how hes doing it now), But just because I know these gay people doesnt mean I support them going out and getting married, nor do I support stem cell research unless its collected from the Umbilical cord not unborn children.

People have voices, and if the government doesnt do something People will get angry. Beyond Beleif! So If any thing dont complain about the government and how they run thing, complain about the peopl who Complain about the changes they want done in our goverment.

I also totaly agree about the Prison thing Beemaster, If we stoped wasting tie on Money against drugs and putting the people with real problems away and taking care of them... And shortineng the sentences for the Drug people/stupid offences, Things would be easier, and as for the Father thing, they should make them work, and be given a home to live at, and all of it go to The childs fund and what ever is left over they can buy something nice for them selfs... with what ever 20 bucks they get.
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Offline Jerrymac

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« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2006, 01:30:03 AM »
Quote from: nepenthes
That last statement is disgusting, I know pleanty of gay people, but the Morals this country was founded on are totaly being twisted and put in a closet.


 :?:  :?:  :?:

I thought it was freedom and rights that this country was founded on.

No wonder I am so confussed.

It is not the governments place to govern morals. If so then they can tell you what religion to have.

If the government regulates who marries who, like gay marrages, then there will be nothing to stop them from regulating what race one choses to marry. I don't see how it is any of your business or mine who one marries.
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Offline Jerrymac

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« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2006, 01:33:44 AM »
Oh and let us not forget that the fathers aren't always the only one paying child support. What do we say about the delinquint moms?

What do we say about the "legal" parent that takes the child support payments and spends it on booze/drugs?
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Offline nepenthes

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« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2006, 01:53:46 AM »
Freedom and Rights, based along with Relgious values. Look, Im not saying that One cant practice religion, but they need to realize that The United states was founded partialy on Christianity. And need to stop saying "ohh you need to respect my beleifs, even though this country is foued Half on Christianity!

People lose sight of these facts, and the historians are trying to cover up history. Not many people learn about biblical things. Im not saying that their needs to be a bible reveiw class, im saying that people need compare and contrast on biblical things in History, not a Verse by verse comparison, but what biblical figures have influences history, good and bad things.

Its kind of complicated and i suck at explaining things, I probably totaly cornerd my self theie.
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Offline Jerrymac

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« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2006, 02:14:04 AM »
Well if we are going to go with moraly correct Christianity issues then we must ban sex outside of marrage. Get rid of divorces. No more porn of anykind. Sure need to get rid of a lot of commercials on the TV, not to mention a lot of television shows, and movies. A whole bunch of different kinds of music needs to go. And the list goes on and on. We turn our heads and ignore a lot of things but then we raise a big stink about other issues.

He who is without sin may cast the first stone.
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Offline randydrivesabus

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« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2006, 07:34:47 AM »
the stem cell issue is very tied up in the abortion issue and even being the liberal i am i am opposed to abortion on a personal level. this probably stems from having 3 great kids. but who am i to tell someone else what is right and wrong when it comes to this issue?
the government has a right to legislate ethics (how people treat each other) but morals are a personal, a very personal thing.

this is way off topic. sorry.

Offline Jerrymac

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« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2006, 10:47:49 AM »
Quote from: randydrivesabus
i am a school bus driver and i am subject to random drug and alcohol testing.
i think this testing is an infringement on my right of due process. but i continue driving the bus and following the rules because it pays pretty good for a rural job and doesnt take up much of my time. it also gives me access to group health insurance and a retirement plan. life is full of tradeoffs.


But think about this. If everyone refused the tests then there would be no tests because the need for drivers outwieghs the need for tests. This is where the term "power of the people" comes into affect. But you can't get everyone to stand together and protest it can you. Why? Because everyone believes that most will bow down and do it.

Do you think there would be no professional football if every single player refused drug tests? Do you think NASCAR would close the doors? Would baseball start up next year?

You say that life is full of trade offs.  How do you think it got to be the way it was before 1776? A little compromise here. A little trade off there. Until finally you are left with very little. (steering back towards beginning topic) Just what would the US government do if everyone refused to get a federal ID? is there enough prisons to hold all of us? Who would then keep this country going and where would they get the tax money if we are all in prison?
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Offline randydrivesabus

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« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2006, 12:12:54 PM »
i agree with your post Jmac but the problem is getting everyone to agree not to be tested and then following through and not going when called. in every workforce there are those who will run to management and tell them that theres trouble brewing and then the ringleader(s) will be out of a job.
i could easily be fired even though i have a written contract because i miss a lot of work through a verbal agreement with my supervisor. from mid-january through mid-april when i'm working full time at a CPA firm (i'm a cpa) i don't drive in the afternoons. so they could easily fire me because i miss about 1/6 of my time. anyway, this is state law not local. so a change would have to take place through legislation or court action.

Offline Jerrymac

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« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2006, 12:47:20 PM »
Yep. That's the reality of it.

It's a shame that people do it that way. Then somewhere down the line the great grand children go through a revolution because of what we let slide in our time.
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Offline randydrivesabus

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« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2006, 12:51:44 PM »
i think that the majority of people with children in this state (VA) who ride school buses would want the drivers to be tested.

Offline Jerrymac

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« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2006, 12:59:42 PM »
There you go....... deprive one person of his/her rights/freedom because the majority wants this or that. Just remember you deny yourself the same freedoms you take from others.
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Online kathyp

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« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2006, 12:10:35 PM »
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If the government regulates who marries who, like gay marriages, then there will be nothing to stop them from regulating what race one choses to marry. I don't see how it is any of your business or mine who one marries.


following that line of thought, men should be able to marry boys, multiple marriages should be ok.  moms could marry sons, and i could marry my horse....i'd just have to pick mare of gelding....hmmmmm.

the reason we all live together in some semblance of order, is because we have rules.  anarchy can not work.  there are leaders and there are followers.  without rules, we get a "lord of the flies" thing.  really bad people against really good people and a lot of wimps with no opinion following along.

i'm not thrilled with drug tests.  i would be equally dismayed to find that my childs bus driver was a meth user.  i think that there are some institutions that are important to the structure of society.  among them, marriage.  i do not care who is sleeping with whom.  

social order decays as we try to accommodate by legislation, all beliefs and lifestyles.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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Offline randydrivesabus

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« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2006, 01:32:46 PM »
Quote from: kathyp
i think that there are some institutions that are important to the structure of society.  among them, marriage.  i do not care who is sleeping with whom.  


why is the institution of 'straight' marriage important to society?

 

anything